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Old 09-03-2016, 10:00 AM   #61
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J
I'm sorry but I'm afraid I have to call BS on that article.

The system pictured in it is nothing more than a Racor filter, a pump (most likely a gear pump) a timer and a magnet of very dubious usefulness.

I'm inclined to agree, based on how clean the filter was when I changed it. Damn but I see it's $10,000 installed! Oh well, it's still useful for moving fuel about.


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Old 09-03-2016, 12:16 PM   #62
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I'm inclined to agree, based on how clean the filter was when I changed it. Damn but I see it's $10,000 installed! Oh well, it's still useful for moving fuel about.


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Or you just have had nice clean fuel and tanks all that time.
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Old 09-03-2016, 12:52 PM   #63
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"Some boat builders put a sump in the tank and run the pick up tube into the sump."

This works fine for the usual water in the fuel, and for condensation.

BUT when someone 1/2 fills the fuel tank with water only a good sump will get the water out with ease,,,and time.

A good sump is the basic difference between a Fuel Tank, and a "box for fuel".

An item that should be on every pre delivery payment survey.
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Old 09-03-2016, 04:33 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by BandB View Post
We do use Alfa Laval which has a centrifuge.

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Now you're talking "polishing"!
Im not so sure at this point. So far I have only been able to find specs on the laval's and they only spec 5 microns or larger removal.

To me thats not even close to a rating of 98% @ 2 micron racor filters.
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Old 09-03-2016, 04:49 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by BandB View Post
We do use Alfa Laval which has a centrifuge.



Im not so sure at this point. So far I have only been able to find specs on the laval's and they only spec 5 microns or larger removal.

To me thats not even close to a rating of 98% @ 2 micron racor filters.
ALs are used to get the big stuff out so the secondary and on engine filters can do their jobs efficiently. Remember beta rating is at play too. A clean AL 5 u may be far better than a low beta rating 2u filter.
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Old 09-03-2016, 07:16 PM   #66
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Some boat builders put a sump in the tank and run the pick up tube into the sump. The theory is that if there is water and debris you want to get it out of the tank and into the filters. Hatteras for one was doing this.
I like the concept of a sump to collect the heavy materials in fuel like water, rust, sand and dirt. Have you ever watched a fuel delivery guy drag the nozzle or cam locks across the gravel before sticking it into your tanks! Or see how much snow or rain is in those hoses. Or watch while a driver is unloading in a heavy rain storm and he goes and sits in the truck while the rain just pours into the filler neck of the tank??? I have seen it lots. And while fuel is pretty clean these days, it just makes sense to be able to drain some of these contaminants out of a sump before they ever get into your filters. I remember the days of sediment bowls on lots of equipment. Simple concept- gravity. If you can get at the bottom of any fuel tank it is a real good starting point to eliminate a bunch of potential problems before the water causes rust and gets circulated and mixed and pumped throughout the fuel system. Just drain it off into a clear container, even a plastic pop bottle, and you can see right away if there is water or other junk in it. Nothing wrong with $10,000 polishing systems but do the simple things first. Lots of heavy equipment has tank drains and it is real easy to crack the valve and check what comes out. If it is clean diesel you are smiling, if not it is a great time to deal with a problem before you are hundreds of miles from home and help.
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Old 09-03-2016, 07:27 PM   #67
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Fuel polishing frequency ?
After re-fueling, monthly or when ever wave action is causing fuel to slosh around in the tank.
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Old 09-03-2016, 07:32 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by BandB View Post
We do use Alfa Laval which has a centrifuge.



Im not so sure at this point. So far I have only been able to find specs on the laval's and they only spec 5 microns or larger removal.

To me thats not even close to a rating of 98% @ 2 micron racor filters.
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Old 09-03-2016, 07:45 PM   #69
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If you can get at the bottom of any fuel tank it is a real good starting point to eliminate a bunch of potential problems before the water causes rust and gets circulated and mixed and pumped throughout the fuel system. Just drain it off into a clear container, even a plastic pop bottle, and you can see right away if there is water or other junk in it.


If the pick up tube pulls everything up out of the sump, then the filters catch it as designed and it does not go into the fuel system. A sump drain is great, but few people will check it. If you pick up the water and junk and put it in the Racor, then you will see it and can act on it. Most boaters are not disciplined enough to take routine samplings off the bottom of the tank, and furthermore if there is water in the tank you are far more likely to notice it if you see it in the filter bowl. If you are regularly seeing water in the Racor, you had better try to find the source before it begins to attack the tank. I suspect that for most boaters getting the crap to the filter is a good idea and that is why Hatteras and others took that approach.
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Old 09-04-2016, 06:05 AM   #70
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comment? Or were you just smacking a bug on your forehead?
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Old 09-04-2016, 06:18 AM   #71
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ALs are used to get the big stuff out so the secondary and on engine filters can do their jobs efficiently. Remember beta rating is at play too. A clean AL 5 u may be far better than a low beta rating 2u filter.
Maybe, maybe not.

From most of the comments these boats sit for the majority of their lives. That says to me that gravity itself will do more to separate solids, water, etc from the fuel. For most an occasional re-circulation of the fuel using a good water separating filter is all thats needed.
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Old 09-04-2016, 09:44 AM   #72
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Maybe, maybe not.



From most of the comments these boats sit for the majority of their lives. That says to me that gravity itself will do more to separate solids, water, etc from the fuel. For most an occasional re-circulation of the fuel using a good water separating filter is all thats needed.

But the devil is in the details. It's hard to get a lot of motion in a nearly full fuel tank...at least with my ESI system. That's why I move fuel from tank to tank at least once a year and I need to be down at least 200 gallons in order to achieve that. Once the tank is down to a few gallons, I run the fuel around within the tank, to maximize the agitation--at least that's the goal. I question whether that is sufficient given the throughput of the ESI fuel pump.


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Old 09-04-2016, 11:08 AM   #73
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comment? Or were you just smacking a bug on your forehead?
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Old 09-04-2016, 08:20 PM   #74
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Once the tank is down to a few gallons, I run the fuel around within the tank, to maximize the agitation--at least that's the goal. I question whether that is sufficient given the throughput of the ESI fuel pump.


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Thats a vote for inspection plates if I ever saw one. Guessing is much harder than it appears.
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Old 09-04-2016, 08:40 PM   #75
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So my boat sat for 8 years at the dock before I bought it. It has the worst case of bio that I have ever seen. Not to mention the rustiest fuel tanks I have ever seen as well. The PO had to have coated them internally.

I have for the time being been using the walbro to pull fuel thru a SS water filter that has 2? or 5 micron filter elements. I posted a pic of the filter assy some time ago because its really inexpensive and looked like it would do a great job scrubbing the fuel. Of course I was immediately accused of heresy because I inadvertently used the word polish.

I decided to use food grade clear tubing to connect to the input pipe and the filter and then from the filter to the walbro and then to the primary filters, just to see if there was any noticeable difference of the before and after filtering.

The fuel going in is black as coal, the fuel coming out is clear red. It has really surprised me at how well it has removed the bio. The elements last way longer then the 2010 racor elements do, but the racor does a much better job of stripping any water from the fuel.

Which raises a question in my mind, just how well does the "aqua-bloc" work on the racor filters? If water is so dispersed in the fuel that it cant be separated by the turbine spin plastic then does the filter stop all of it? Or does it even matter since the water is so small that it poses no threat to the injector tips? The lehman and the westerbeke 12.5 seem to think so.
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Old 09-04-2016, 08:49 PM   #76
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There is very little, if any, turbine effect going on in most Racors.

The flow rate is to low.

Real fuel centrifuges spin at 1000s of RPM.
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Old 09-04-2016, 10:29 PM   #77
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Thats a vote for inspection plates if I ever saw one. Guessing is much harder than it appears.

Oh...I've got those too.
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Old 09-05-2016, 05:10 AM   #78
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"Or does it even matter since the water is so small that it poses no threat to the injector tips?"

The fear is water in the injector can turn into steam, which may blow the tip apart.

The black in your fuel was probably the fuel clumping together , ashphalting,which any filter should grab.
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Old 09-05-2016, 05:36 PM   #79
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You need to stir up the sediment on the bottom before you polish it. Go out and rock the boat while running it and then polish.
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Old 09-06-2016, 05:16 AM   #80
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"You need to stir up the sediment on the bottom before you polish it. Go out and rock the boat while running it and then polish."

Fine but the usual problem is layers of gunk stuck to the tank walls.

As the boat pounds and fuel surges fore and aft , some of this gropsche gets loose and enough will plug the filters.

Where you either switch to filter bank 2 , while replacing the filters in bank 1 ,

or call Sea Tow.
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