dhays
Guru
- Joined
- May 26, 2015
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- North Pacific 43
"Free upgrade" expectations...
- Thread starter Bruce B
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
MYTraveler
Guru
At least one big-name electronics manufacturer releases products knowing that there are minor bugs, and the like, which they intend to discover and fix in future updates. When they then change the hardware, to support touch screen for example, but run essentially the same software on that new hardware, they have to decide whether to continue to support the old hardware. It is disappointing when they do not, especially when the perception is that, in many respects, they easily could. Although I don't fault that manufacturer, it would certainly affect my decision to buy their product in the future.
None of the manufacturers I've known produce hardware that can read the NOAA ENC or BNC charts. I've heard that one mfg'r is starting to offer products which do this, but haven't run into it myself.
I've long said there's a business opportunity there. I think the OpenCPN community was talking about setting up an "open" hardware platform, but I don't know how far along that's gotten.
The reality is, it's hard to beat the convenience of a dedicated chartplotter/MFD, and as long as the manufacturers stick together and all use only proprietary chart data, there's not much one consumer can do.
Except maybe gripe on forums like this
stubones99
Guru
Apple does the same planned obsolescence with their products. I have two iMacs that are beyond their support, along with one iPad, and with the next major release, my iPhone 5s won't be supported too. They design products with a 18 month planned life. if it makes it, great!, if not, then that is a support call to someone. If you call someone other than apple to fix your iDevice, you run the risk of bricking it with the next release, if the case is opened.
Nothing is wrong with my iPhone 5s but soon it will be a dust collector, just because they no longer support it, and no updates for other software if you don't have the latest IOS.
I've had the same thing happen on other products so it isn't just Apple.
Stu
Nothing is wrong with my iPhone 5s but soon it will be a dust collector, just because they no longer support it, and no updates for other software if you don't have the latest IOS.
I've had the same thing happen on other products so it isn't just Apple.
Stu
When I purchase anything electronic or computer related, I assume a useful life of five years. Now, it may be much longer to those who can live with a previous generation of technology. I just can't. I see new features and I must have them. IRS even puts computers in a five year class and allow you to write it off over that time.
twistedtree
Guru
None of the manufacturers I've known produce hardware that can read the NOAA ENC or BNC charts. I've heard that one mfg'r is starting to offer products which do this, but haven't run into it myself.
I've long said there's a business opportunity there. I think the OpenCPN community was talking about setting up an "open" hardware platform, but I don't know how far along that's gotten.
The reality is, it's hard to beat the convenience of a dedicated chartplotter/MFD, and as long as the manufacturers stick together and all use only proprietary chart data, there's not much one consumer can do.
Except maybe gripe on forums like this
Coastal Explorer can do this, and is a great alternative to an MFD if you have an interior helm. I don't miss having an MFD - not even the least bit.
mbevins
Guru
What he said. +1
ranger58sb
Guru
??
Our plotter reads NOAA raster (RNC) and vector (ENC) charts. Latter are S-57 format... The plotter is from 2009, and I think they're previous system also used the same charts...
Or perhaps you meant without some kind of conversion or formatting process? Our are formatted for use with our plotter and with Time Zero. Don't know the nature of what that involves, and haven't ever tried using a chart downloaded directly from NOAA...
What's BNC?
-Chris
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Actually, it was the folks who DIDN'T do the free upgrades who were bitten.
Very true. I'd be there if I had just an inside helm.
But I usually run from the flybridge, and even with a full enclosure it can get a little wet in rain or heavy seas. By the time you rig up a ruggedized, sunlight-readable touch screen display and processor, you may as well buy a dedicated MFD. But technology is improving, and I look at this option every time I consider new electronics. One of these days it'll make sense.
mbevins
Guru
Not really so. There are constantly used sunlight viewable monitors on eBay, that is the most expensive part of the equation. You could use your laptop to run it , ( just stuff it under the helm to stay dry)
Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/401292251996
I have an enclosed bridge with a overhead ebox so I have a highend processor up there, picked up a 1year old RM m1500 monitor. The monitor has been running for 6 years now. If it dies I'll buy another.
I'm on my 3rd processor in 17 years. Never spend more than a boat buck on one. The latest one has a SS hard drive. I run CE. It cost $300.
twistedtree
Guru
I assume you are talking about a Furuno Navnet 3D system? I'm pretty sure they can only run charts obtained from MapMedia, aka MazSea. Yes, the US charts are derived from the NOAA charts, but I don't think you can load and view the NOAA charts directly - only the processed versions from MaxSea.
The result is that you only get updates when MaxSea rolls a new chart pack, and that happens once a year, give or take. Yet NOAA updates charts on a much more frequent basis. In many areas the changes are minor and waiting a year isn't a big deal, but in other areas it would be nice to take advantage of new charts sooner.
The other implication is that you can't load a third party ENC chart that is otherwise not available from MaxSea. So if the University of New Hampshire published an ENC chart of Squam Lake, you wouldn't be able to use it.
On the plus side, MaxSea/Furuno do make the US charts available for free, so even though they update less frequently, and least they don't place and added charge on otherwise free underlying charts.
RT Firefly
Enigma
Greetings,
Many years ago I bought an entry level Garmin GPS for my land vehicle. After a period of time (maybe 2 years) I felt the need to upgrade the maps. Contacted Garmin and for $45 this was accomplished via the internet. At a later date, I replaced that unit with an entry level Tom Tom which included lifetime map upgrades so every 6 mos. or so I get an e-mail from Tom Tom notifying me there is an upgrade available. 10 minutes on the net and I'm current. I notice Garmin offers lifetime maps on their more expensive GPS units but still not on the entry level units, last time I checked. So how hard can it be in a marine application? THAT'S my beef with Garmin Marine.
With my land vehicle unit I'm NOT looking for any extra bells and whistles, just current mappage.
Many years ago I bought an entry level Garmin GPS for my land vehicle. After a period of time (maybe 2 years) I felt the need to upgrade the maps. Contacted Garmin and for $45 this was accomplished via the internet. At a later date, I replaced that unit with an entry level Tom Tom which included lifetime map upgrades so every 6 mos. or so I get an e-mail from Tom Tom notifying me there is an upgrade available. 10 minutes on the net and I'm current. I notice Garmin offers lifetime maps on their more expensive GPS units but still not on the entry level units, last time I checked. So how hard can it be in a marine application? THAT'S my beef with Garmin Marine.
With my land vehicle unit I'm NOT looking for any extra bells and whistles, just current mappage.
ranger58sb
Guru
Yep, that's the one. I wasn't sure I understood Tom's assertion... whether that was about NOAA-produced data (which ours uses) or about not ever somehow being able to load that NOAA-produced data into the product in question.
Indeed, more frequent updates would be even better. And I've never thought to try loading one straight from the NOAA site...
-Chris
The laptop idea is a good one, and I'd certainly explore it before buying a new MFD.
But taking your example ($700 monitor, $300 CE and $1,000 processor) I come up with $2K. And that gives me a cobbled-together system with no touch screen that I need to engineer myself and doesn't connect with other NMEA 2K and 0183 systems on board without additional components
Much as I like to tinker, I'd just as soon spend the $2K on a brand-new MFD.
The only flaw in my logic is the overpriced chart data, hence my pet peeve.
There are several charts with daily updates available.
ranger58sb
Guru
Yep, I know they're there... I just meant I've never tried to load the non-MapMedia (MaxSea) versions into our specific plotter. Dunno if possible...
-Chris
mbevins
Guru
Yes still get nmea connection with this. CE is a great product.
The real advantage is as the software upgrades you get it, as NOAA updates you get it. That monitor I showed was the first one I saw, there are others. You could use a $400 brick for a processor, I chose not to because I own an electrical engineering company so I can get the hibred stuff but it's not needed.
There are a few of us here who would never go back to a proprietary system. Look at Twistedtree's setup, although his is a hibred too.
ranger58sb
Guru
To add: I can see where the MapMedia formatting could be a boatload of work. When we get an update, it could include hundreds of charts (the whole east coast, anyway, all charts in all scales) all at once... all seamlessly viewable as we zoom in/out... so it's not just a one-chart deal.
That's one of the reasons I haven't tried any NOAA-direct workarounds; for instance, updating one chart in the whole pack, and then integrating it into the deck -- even if possible at user level -- just seems like way more work than I want to fool with.
Especially since I have the LNM feed... and since most changes are usually (relatively) trivial.
-Chris
It's thousands of charts updated and changes daily, so far from trivial. For those into paper charts, Transas actually has a feature which allows you to note the date of your paper charts and then they'll notify you of all the changes made since they were printed. Massive list over very short period of time.
