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Old 09-28-2016, 06:10 PM   #61
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Sealife

I have met many TF regulars. Most if not all seem to have their wits about them and understand the realities of recreational boating. Based upon these meetings I'd brand TF regular members as pretty well tuned in.

Having issued forth the above, nothing the matter with letting your experienced based facts and opinions come out. If you read a comment or thread that seems off base, so state. Join the fray.

I do find your clueless phrase shared in a more subtle manner by Boat Poker. That is OK, just a surveyors' badge I'd guess.
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Old 09-28-2016, 06:13 PM   #62
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........... And I too have always blinked at the " 30 years boating experience"...had many of themy in my captains courses and scratched my head as to what they were doing....sleeping underway all those years?
And yet you yourself pull out that line time after time.
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Old 09-28-2016, 07:16 PM   #63
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Decades of working on boats, learning to sail in the North Sea, Cruising from Duluth MN to the Caribbean, being a full time liveaboard for twenty years and total rebuilds of three cruising powerboats has taught me a thing or two about boats but ..... I place just as much value on my education in meteorology, composite engineering, electrical systems and corrosion analysis and the literally dozens of course I've taken over the years from people such as Dave Rifkin, Ed Sherman, Kevin Ritz, Blake Lloyd .......

I know many boaters who claim 30 years of experience but what they really have is one years experience repeated 30 times.

Educated experience is the key in my humble opinion.
With that experience, I'd sure listen to you, and the others you mention.

There are many professions that get bashed, and perhaps for good reason at times, but doesn't mean all in that profession are bad.

As for experience, we all have our differences, so we try to qualify the posts and determine what is best for us.

And, one years experience repeated 30 times still has some value.... perhaps an expert in a narrow subject area.
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Old 09-28-2016, 07:21 PM   #64
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One other thing that came out in this thread and is something I find extremely distasteful and that is blanket attacks on professions or groups of people. I have no issue with saying one has had a problem finding good surveyors or brokers or electricians and asking for advice on how to do it, but saying all surveyors are useless, all brokers are frauds, all electricians are clueless, is very inappropriate, in my opinion.

In this thread, Sealife gets attacked for being a surveyor. Don't people realize that they're insulting individuals, no different than themselves? There are good and bad in every field and no one here works or did work in a profession immune from that.
BandB,

True, but some professions do have a reputation. It's just the nature of the beast. Lawyers, Surveyors, Boat brokers, Real Estate Agents, Used car salesmen and others have all suffered the reputation of being lousy. True, in the minority of them, but enough of them have created the image to gain the title. So, we sort thru them, and find the good ones.

Most of us probably don't know Sealife, but should certainly give him the benefit of the doubt, and if hiring a surveyor, I'd sure favor one posting here.
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Old 09-28-2016, 07:55 PM   #65
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Well this promises to be a lively little thread
Should be.

By the way, I recall you were asking at one point the best way to store additional gasoline for long trips. The only way to do it is in corked recycled glass bottles in the bilge. That's what I do, anyway, and you should too.

And, on another topic I think you raised, no, you don't need to plumb your propane system with that expensive hose the marine stores sell. Just use sections of old garden hose. And don't waste your time with hose clamps. Not necessary. Duct tape works as well.

Let me know if you need any more help with any questions on these or other topics.
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Old 09-28-2016, 08:16 PM   #66
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Should be.

By the way, I recall you were asking at one point the best way to store additional gasoline for long trips. The only way to do it is in corked recycled glass bottles in the bilge. That's what I do, anyway, and you should too.

And, on another topic I think you raised, no, you don't need to plumb your propane system with that expensive hose the marine stores sell. Just use sections of old garden hose. And don't waste your time with hose clamps. Not necessary. Duct tape works as well.

Let me know if you need any more help with any questions on these or other topics.
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Old 09-28-2016, 08:31 PM   #67
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Sealife

I have met many TF regulars. Most if not all seem to have their wits about them and understand the realities of recreational boating. Based upon these meetings I'd brand TF regular members as pretty well tuned in.

Having issued forth the above, nothing the matter with letting your experienced based facts and opinions come out. If you read a comment or thread that seems off base, so state. Join the fray.

I do find your clueless phrase shared in a more subtle manner by Boat Poker. That is OK, just a surveyors' badge I'd guess.
I agree 100%!!!

Every TF member brings some expertise to the table. We have right here a huge variety of professions and trades represented by the membership. While not of all of us directly worked on boats for a living, what we did do, along with our hands on experience as owners provides a significant knowledge base to draw from.

The short answer and I think you'd agree is that just because we don't make our livings working on boats does not mean we are clueless, or lacking in knowledge...and just because someone wakes up in the morning, pays for a "surveyor" certificate, or takes a test does not make them subject matter experts on all things boating related.

I judge each post by its substance, and ignore any self proclamations of expertise.
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Old 09-28-2016, 08:45 PM   #68
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I agree 100%!!!

Every TF member brings some expertise to the table. We have right here a huge variety of professions and trades represented by the membership. While not of all of us directly worked on boats for a living, what we did do, along with our hands on experience as owners provides a significant knowledge base to draw from.

The short answer and I think you'd agree is that just because we don't make our livings working on boats does not mean we are clueless, or lacking in knowledge...and just because someone wakes up in the morning, pays for a "surveyor" certificate, or takes a test does not make them subject matter experts on all things boating related.

I judge each post by its substance, and ignore any self proclamations of expertise.
ok, I'll bite
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Old 09-28-2016, 08:51 PM   #69
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BandB,

True, but some professions do have a reputation. It's just the nature of the beast. Lawyers, Surveyors, Boat brokers, Real Estate Agents, Used car salesmen and others have all suffered the reputation of being lousy. True, in the minority of them, but enough of them have created the image to gain the title. So, we sort thru them, and find the good ones.

Most of us probably don't know Sealife, but should certainly give him the benefit of the doubt, and if hiring a surveyor, I'd sure favor one posting here.
It's our fault they have those reputations. First, we continue to select the bad ones. Don't do a good enough job pre-qualifying. Second, then we regularly talk about the professions. I hate to say this, but I've actually known good politicians even. My experiences with lawyers, surveyors and real estate agents has always been positive. i personally know boat brokers I'd trust, but I've never used one, nor have I ever dealt with a used car salesman, but I know there are some who have a large following of repeat customers.
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Old 09-28-2016, 08:52 PM   #70
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Boatpoker, I generally pay close attention to what you say. Not because you are a surveyor, but because what you post generally makes sense.

There are many paths into the Surveyor trade, and not all surveyors have great knowledge. I think most here would agree with that based on our personal experience with members of your trade.

You, have proven yourself here, not because of a plackard on your office wall, but because of ther substance of what you post. Not so for everyone that calles themself a surveyor.
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Old 09-28-2016, 09:09 PM   #71
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It's our fault they have those reputations. First, we continue to select the bad ones. Don't do a good enough job pre-qualifying. Second, then we regularly talk about the professions. I hate to say this, but I've actually known good politicians even. My experiences with lawyers, surveyors and real estate agents has always been positive. i personally know boat brokers I'd trust, but I've never used one, nor have I ever dealt with a used car salesman, but I know there are some who have a large following of repeat customers.
+1

There are 250 surveyors in Ontario. I am familiar with all of them to some extent. There are three that I personally would hire and 247 that I would drum out of the business if I could. I am also familiar with many in the North East and the East coast of the US and another 8 or 9 I would heartily recommend there along with dozens I would recommend against. There are a large number of terrible surveyors in this business because it is so easy to get in to. A healthy dose of due diligence is required regardless of credentials. I do not claim to be the best (the best .... Dave Buchanan, David Wells, David Rifkin, Jerry Zingale as a few examples, these are the guys I call when I'm stumped) but I do make an honest effort.

I do somewhat agree with Psneelds earlier comments about the value of credentials however I do believe credentials set a baseline. Would you hire a doctor with no credentials ?
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Old 09-28-2016, 09:31 PM   #72
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I do somewhat agree with Psneelds earlier comments about the value of credentials however I do believe credentials set a baseline. Would you hire a doctor with no credentials ?
Not requiring at least some credentials leads to what you're talking about. The quality surveyors I've talked to wish there were some, just like brokers wishing the same as many of them have had issues dealing with unscrupulous brokers.
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Old 09-28-2016, 10:50 PM   #73
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Let me know if you need any more help with any questions on these or other topics.
About time Carl, don't make me wait so long for your replies in the future.

Still packing your bilges full of rock salt and human waste? Sanitation is so overrated what with them thar educated professionals always spouting off about it.
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Old 09-28-2016, 11:16 PM   #74
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+1

There are 250 surveyors in Ontario. I am familiar with all of them to some extent. There are three that I personally would hire and 247 that I would drum out of the business if I could.
Gosh BP, only 1% of the boat surveyors in Ontario are worth hiring
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Old 09-29-2016, 12:31 AM   #75
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Gosh BP, only 1% of the boat surveyors in Ontario are worth hiring

And the other 99% post here
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Old 09-29-2016, 12:44 AM   #76
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Should be.

By the way, I recall you were asking at one point the best way to store additional gasoline for long trips. The only way to do it is in corked recycled glass bottles in the bilge. That's what I do, anyway, and you should too.

And, on another topic I think you raised, no, you don't need to plumb your propane system with that expensive hose the marine stores sell. Just use sections of old garden hose. And don't waste your time with hose clamps. Not necessary. Duct tape works as well.

Let me know if you need any more help with any questions on these or other topics.
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Old 09-29-2016, 12:46 AM   #77
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And the other 99% post here
Gaston, how many more times am I going to have to tell you to go wash your mouth out..? You are a naughty wombat..!
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Old 09-29-2016, 06:26 AM   #78
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I've actually known good politicians even.
.
WOW... now there's a real oxymoron!!!
They don't even have a qualifying certificate program????

Amazing how much traffic this type of post generates vs a good technical discussion
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Old 09-29-2016, 06:33 AM   #79
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WOW... now there's a real oxymoron!!!
They don't even have a qualifying certificate program????
Sure they do ..... I think it's called a law degree.
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Old 09-29-2016, 07:04 AM   #80
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And to the OP, don't take this the wrong way but being a certified anything doesn't mean squat to me. It's the substance of the advice you give that has importantance, your credentials are unimportant.
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Yeah, mostly the same for me, too... especially in anonymous interaction over the 'net. Just 'cause some distant typist claims credentials doesn't even mean that's true, let alone whether typist's advice is legit or not.

Might be different in person. Choosing between advice from two different guys -- face to face -- I might lend a bit more credence to the credentialed guy. Or not, depending.
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I do somewhat agree with Psneelds earlier comments about the value of credentials however I do believe credentials set a baseline. Would you hire a doctor with no credentials ?

Point taken, and that makes a useful addition to what I was thinking before. Responding to Kevin's post, I too don't reckon credentials automatically invest someone with superior knowledge.

OTOH, if I'm shopping for local help, and don't already know a specialist, I'll usually start looking for a "certified" guy in whatever field or for whatever product needs attention. Expecting (hoping) that certified guy is more knowledgeable than Bubba Off The Street. The credentialed doctor, so to speak.

But then, back to substance. Trust (maybe a little), but verify.

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