Ford Lehmann 6 cilinder Engine Problems

[timm]

Good day all,
I am a new member and trying to find my way around the Trawlers Forum.
I have a boat in Greece and have only been able to get to it for a few weeks each year.
Recently I have had difficulty starting the engine and the engine seems locked with only about 1/3 of a revolution allowable movement in turning the engine with a large shifting spanner on the crankshaft pulley nut.
I have spent days dismantling all the items I think may be the cause of this.
Started by removing all the injectors to see if there is water trapped above one of the pistons,
All pistons move up and down and seem OK.
The camshaft turns and lifts the valves on all cylinders.
Removed the starter motor-no problem there.Ring gear still bright and shiny and stater motor free to turn.
Took off the round timing inspection plate and all the gears are meshing and seem happy.
Took off the cover of the sea water pump which is also driven by the timing gears and all seems good.
The only thing left is the injector pump which I have never checked for lubrication as I was told this is lubricated by the engine oil.
The metalic clicking noise which is audible when I turn the engine back and forth in the limited radius before dead stops seems to be coming from the front of the engine.
All that is left is to remove the injector pump.

I am getting to the end of my tether.
The boat is moored in a remote part of Greece with little help around.
I would really appreciate some comments
I am quite happy to Whatsup a video of me turning the engine to anyone who might be able to suggest anything.
Regards,
Tim

 

[warfdog]

Damper Plate maybe...search forums for this, sometimes mis-spelled dampner.

 

[Martin J]

The oil is separate in the injection pump and changed every 50 hrs. Are you sure you have all clean battery contacts etc? Can you turn it over when the injectors are out> that should be reasonably easy. Put a discharge battery on the battery terminals before trying to start and make sure you have no volt drop. Have you bled the fuel, are the filters blocked? How long since last run? Have you checked to see if the propshaft is turning at the same time as your trying to turn it, is the boat out of gear?

 

[T210DRVR]

Good day all,
I am a new member and trying to find my way around the Trawlers Forum.
I have a boat in Greece and have only been able to get to it for a few weeks each year.
Recently I have had difficulty starting the engine and the engine seems locked with only about 1/3 of a revolution allowable movement in turning the engine with a large shifting spanner on the crankshaft pulley nut.
I have spent days dismantling all the items I think may be the cause of this.
Started by removing all the injectors to see if there is water trapped above one of the pistons,
All pistons move up and down and seem OK.
The camshaft turns and lifts the valves on all cylinders.
Removed the starter motor-no problem there.Ring gear still bright and shiny and stater motor free to turn.
Took off the round timing inspection plate and all the gears are meshing and seem happy.
Took off the cover of the sea water pump which is also driven by the timing gears and all seems good.
The only thing left is the injector pump which I have never checked for lubrication as I was told this is lubricated by the engine oil.
The metalic clicking noise which is audible when I turn the engine back and forth in the limited radius before dead stops seems to be coming from the front of the engine.
All that is left is to remove the injector pump.

I am getting to the end of my tether.
The boat is moored in a remote part of Greece with little help around.
I would really appreciate some comments
I am quite happy to Whatsup a video of me turning the engine to anyone who might be able to suggest anything.
Regards,
Tim

I believe you are saying the that the engine will not do a complete cycle with a wrench on the crankshaft nut? If that’s the case I believe you are looking for the mechanical cause of an engine that will not turn.

 

[timm]

Thank you Martin and Warfdog.
There are no oil level plugs or oil drain plugs on the pump.
I have compared the pump to other photos.
I thought the reason for this is what I was told.
Perhaps the pump is damaged from lack of lubrication if this is not so-but why no oil level plugs or oil drain plugs?Have looked very carefully for these and they do not exist.
It is not the battery-something is jamming the engine and if I try to turn it with the starter motor I feel I will do some more damage.
Perhaps there is something broken in the gearbox which is in neutral.
Will put it in gear and see if the propshaft moves when I move the engine by hand between the limited movement of about a third of a rev before it stops.
Many thanks for your kind comments.
Will try all you guys suggest.
Best regards,
Tim

 

[Comodave]

The 120 hp engine has oil in the injector pump that needs to be changed every 50 to 100 hours. The 135, 225 and 275 hp do not have separate oil from the engine oil and do not need to be changed separate from the engine oil. I would check the damper plate. You have to slide the transmission back from the engine. Most have springs that can break and get stuck and stop the engine from turning.

 

[warfdog]

The 120 hp engine has oil in the injector pump that needs to be changed every 50 to 100 hours. The 135, 225 and 275 hp do not have separate oil from the engine oil and do not need to be changed separate from the engine oil. I would check the damper plate. You have to slide the transmission back from the engine. Most have springs that can break and get stuck and stop the engine from turning.

This!

 

[Pete Meisinger]

Do Not pull the injector pump. It's a PIA and is not your problem. In spite of you saying the noise seems to be coming from the front of the engine it is almost certainly the damper plate which is between the engine and tranny. If you have pulled all the things you mentioned, the damper plate should be about an hour job for you.

pete

 

[DavidM]

I agree, probably the damper plate although the noise at the front of the engine doesn't fit. Look at this recent thread with pics of a failed damper plate and its replacement- http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s6/damper-gone-bad-47378.html


You might want to listen at the bell housing as you rotate the engine back and forth to see if that is where the noise is really coming from.


David

 

[SteveK]

This is what my damper looked like. It is bolted to the flywheel under the bell housing at the rear. You need to remove the transmission first to replace it.
The missing springs were jammed between the housing and the flywheel.

 

[SteveK]

here is the new one installed

 

[Lepke]

Don't take the injector pump out until you understand how to time it.

 

[Ski in NC]

Can be a bunch of things.

Does it feel like it turns well and then it hits a hard stop? Or does it just get tighter and tighter as it approaches the stop? Corroded cylinder will feel like a gradual stop.

Make a sharpie mark on damper and see if it hits the stop in exactly the same place. Busted damper will probably stop engine in a different place each time.

Any stuck valves?

Inj pump can stick from sitting, but usually not enough to jam the engine.

 

[SteveK]

Can be a bunch of things.

Does it feel like it turns well and then it hits a hard stop? Or does it just get tighter and tighter as it approaches the stop? Corroded cylinder will feel like a gradual stop.

Make a sharpie mark on damper and see if it hits the stop in exactly the same place. Busted damper will probably stop engine in a different place each time.

Any stuck valves?

Inj pump can stick from sitting, but usually not enough to jam the engine.

Bolded, are you saying put a sharpie mark on the pulley damper at the front of the engine, please say so. The transmission damper cannot be seen until tranny removal, by then you know if it is the culprit.

 

[Ski in NC]

Torsional damper on the front of the engine. Where the belts are.

 

[Choices]

On a 135, pulling tranny is easy couple hour job. 135s have rear motor mounts so trans should be hanging of bell housing.

A damper plate acts like a busted crank or thrown rod, once it locks up. $150 fix!

 

[Choices]

Check my blog, grandbankschoices, I show how to do it in two hours.

 

[SoWhat]

Could be a number of things. If the boat is sitting for months without being run it is possible the rings have rusted to the cylinder walls creating a high spot. If you pull the injectors, pour some light weight oil into the cylinders and then use a cheater bar on the spanner. Idea is not to use brute force, that could break a ring, but just keep bumping the spot where it won't move.

Damper plate is another possibility as others have mentioned. Unfortunately Lehman didn't design an inspection plate into their bell housing so you will have to remove the transmission to inspect it. A 2 hour job that can be done in the water but you need to rig up some type of moving hoist to remove/reinstall transmission. Aligning the input shaft of a 200+ lb transmission with the damper spline is easy with a chain or ratchet hoist hanging from a trolley.

If the boat was running well when you last left it then suspect rust. Injector pump and raw water pump run from gears but I would pull the raw water pump first. Remove the front plate that gives you a good view of the various gears and you can then poke around with a borescope.

Bring a compete gasket set with you. If you can get engine

 

[Pete Meisinger]

I forgot to add in my earlier post about "It's not the injector pump".

Your starter motor has enough power to literally "shred" the injector pump. There is no way anything wrong with the injector pump could freeze the engine. The starter can strip every gear in the pump from the big one in front to everything inside. Trust me, I know on this one.

It's not anything to do with the pump, don't remove it! You will have at least a six hour job (R&R) and it will not change anything.

pete

 

[ben2go]

I forgot to add in my earlier post about "It's not the injector pump".

Your starter motor has enough power to literally "shred" the injector pump. There is no way anything wrong with the injector pump could freeze the engine. The starter can strip every gear in the pump from the big one in front to everything inside. Trust me, I know on this one.

It's not anything to do with the pump, don't remove it! You will have at least a six hour job (R&R) and it will not change anything.

pete

I think there is a pin or key locking the gear on the IP. I think that would break long before the IP went to crap, at least I would hope so. Those things are expensive once the internals are shredded.

 

[Pete Meisinger]

Nope, no shear pins or sacrificial parts. Search my link on the most stupid thing you have done on your boat.

To make it short.. I found a very loose bolt on the side of the injector pump. Not even finger tight., an inch and a half long, just about ready to drop into the bilge. Having no idea what I was going, I tightened it right up. When I hit the starter I literally blew the side right out of the injection pump. When I removed the pump and gave it a shake it sounded like a box of loose nuts. The errant bolt was a P.O. thing, right threads, wrong length. It was the overflow indicator hole. When I ran the bolt in, it went right into the business end of the pump.

Nothing left of the pump inside or the core, it had a four inch hunk blasted out of the side.

pete

 

[SoWhat]

nothing left of the pump inside or the core, it had a four inch hunk blasted out of the side. Pete

ouch!!!

 

[ben2go]

Nope, no shear pins or sacrificial parts. Search my link on the most stupid thing you have done on your boat.

To make it short.. I found a very loose bolt on the side of the injector pump. Not even finger tight., an inch and a half long, just about ready to drop into the bilge. Having no idea what I was going, I tightened it right up. When I hit the starter I literally blew the side right out of the injection pump. When I removed the pump and gave it a shake it sounded like a box of loose nuts. The errant bolt was a P.O. thing, right threads, wrong length. It was the overflow indicator hole. When I ran the bolt in, it went right into the business end of the pump.

Nothing left of the pump inside or the core, it had a four inch hunk blasted out of the side.

pete

Sorry to hear that took an expensive turn.

 

[Brooksie]

Damper plate blowout can sure spoil your day