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Old 08-28-2012, 04:49 PM   #21
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On a boat 42 to 45' approx I think a FB is ...Stupid. When they first started getting popular it was on bigger boats so it quickly became a "big boat feature" and everyone suddenly had to have one. I'm glad a PO removed the FB from my boat before I bought it. Saved me the trouble. A 30' boat w a round bilge w a FB??? Stupid.

BUT .... at anchor it's a great place to be. I looked at a 36' boat that had a railed aft cabin top and I loved it. Just to be up there. But when the lines are slipped a FB on a small boat is dumb just because of the windage and CG. A fisherman took his off this spring here in Thorne Bay and claims the windage is vastly reduced. He may have over stated it but it definitely is an issue. One dosn't know what a joy one's boat is light unless one experiences it. Same w the FB. And what's really bad is a FB w a bunch of people up there. I saw a FB that addresses the weight and windage issue fairly well and when I'm back on my computer I'll post a pic.
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Old 08-28-2012, 06:26 PM   #22
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By and large, I agree with the having of both, even tho I don't drive from mine much. For docking I'm for doing it down below for the reasons Marin mentioned, and having a sedan have good aft vis from below - I even have a rear view mirror on the helm pole. However, there are times when up above is fantastic, especially here in our Queensland weather, (similar to Florida), but as Eric said, it adds windage, especially if enclosed, and the accentuated motion in a seaway is a turn-off in any but great conditions. If rough it is frankly dangerous.
Strangely enough, to me the most important plus I have experienced was #16 on Art's list. (No not the one he deliberately left out, but yes, in the dark). Steering at night..! No reflections and better night vis, and especially, (as has happened on occasion), if one has to move anchorage in a crowded bay at night. That was when I found it really helpful - almost essential.
I think I would use it more if I had complete instrumentation up there also. But therein lies one of the downsides. More expense duplicating electronics, which are in turn more exposed and vulnerable to the weather. So...if money no object...I think I'm with Marin again here. Raised pilothouse with the lot = good visibility, great comfort, good weather protection and cooling with both side doors open, (gotta have those), and no expensive duplication of gear. Oh, and nice seats. The sort one would not expose up top, unless so enclosed it's not really a fly-bridge anyway, but more like what FF calls a hothouse.
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Old 08-28-2012, 06:59 PM   #23
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We operate from the flybridge whenever it's not cold or raining so that could be 95% of the time. I always operate from the flybridge when entering or exiting a marina or confined area or docking for the better visibility. On our boat, the flybridge greatly increases the living space of the boat.

If for some reason I found myself in the market for a replacement boat, it would have to have a flybridge and dual helms. Yes, it may cost more, but to me it's worth it.
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Old 08-28-2012, 07:27 PM   #24
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We operate from up there about 95% of the time. I'll come down for cold or rough weather ( the rocking movement is magnified up there) and for the overnight crossing of the "Armpit" of Fla.
It is a great spot for entertaining at rest or underway you are "outside" but have the shade of the bimini, a good sound system and seating make it very nice.
If I boated in a cold place I wouldn't need one.
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Old 08-28-2012, 08:50 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
On a boat 42 to 45' approx I think a FB is ...Stupid. When they first started getting popular it was on bigger boats so it quickly became a "big boat feature" and everyone suddenly had to have one. I'm glad a PO removed the FB from my boat before I bought it. Saved me the trouble. A 30' boat w a round bilge w a FB??? Stupid.
Erick - IMHO (BTW - I separated and numbered the sentences of first portion of your post so I could clearly address some of your points)

1. “On a boat 42 to 45' approx I think a FB is ...Stupid.”

2. “When they first started getting popular it was on bigger boats so it quickly became a "big boat feature" and everyone suddenly had to have one.”

3. ”I'm glad a PO removed the FB from my boat before I bought it. Saved me the trouble.”

4. “A 30' boat w a round bilge w a FB??? Stupid.”

Your #1: Mostly incorrect – Fly bridges are great in many ways on many size boats and style boats... especially those with hard chine or semi planning hull. On round bilges displacement hulls they are not so good.

Your #2: 75% incorrect / 25% correct, in what occurred. Reason fly bridge design migrated to smaller boats was mainly because it was ascertained the bridge was not only good for large boats, but also for smaller ones too... bridge placement on smaller boats happened not just for manufacturer’s and owners’ bragging rights, although that was some 25% of the energy.

Your #3: 100% correct!

Your #4: 99.9% Correct!


Least that’s the way I see it!

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Old 08-28-2012, 09:05 PM   #26
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It is common for boats in warmer northern Australia,eg Queensland state, to have helm only on the FB. It limits the resale market,most people want lower a helm in the southern states.
I`ve had both, and though the current boat has FB,rarely use it except for socializing. I like being near what`s happening in the ER. And while you get a good view from the FB for docking,you are a long way from helping with lines if shorthanded.BruceK
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Old 08-28-2012, 09:31 PM   #27
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Since my cruising is limited to South Florida and the Keys I always run the boat from the bridge. I like to poke around in skinny water and the additional visibility is important. My wife and I once watched a sea turtle swimming ahead of us for about five minutes before he turned off our course. I can often get porpoise to play in our wake. The bridge is a great place to watch them.

I notice that the folks who don't like fly bridges all seem to live where it snows.

Ron, I love that nice big bridge you have on the Camano.
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Old 08-28-2012, 09:41 PM   #28
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We don't need no stinkin' flybridge.

You tell'em, Mark!
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Old 08-28-2012, 09:41 PM   #29
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There you have it,some do and some don't.

One thing though, the access to a flybridge from an aft cabin configuration boat is so much easier than say from a saloon/Europa style.With a aft decker you are not climbing a vertical ladder, you have two steps to the aft cabin roof and the 3 steps to the flybridge.This makes the access to the fly bridge quite simple. My old mum was still accessing our flybridge well into her 80's(she had to, that's where the champagne is served)

If your preference is a saloon/Europa style boat over say an aft cabin you may find you will use the flybridge less, because a vertical ladder can be a bit of a challenge, especially when away from the dock, very easy to spill the drinks.

As you can see we all have our own preferences. Me, I have only driven our boats from the lower helm twice in 15 years.

A final suggestion, put 10 days aside take your wife and go hire an aft cabin trawler for 5 days then swap for a saloon/Europa model and see which you prefer. web surfing and talking can only get you so far, until you are out on the water you won't really know which style is right for you.

Good luck to you both, and may your pumps never fail.
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Old 08-28-2012, 09:47 PM   #30
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HAHA Art I wasn't expecting my post to get dissected. But that's fine you also made some good points.

FACT: The FB dosn't add to the seakindlyness of any boat and it opens the door to very hazardous conditions that mostly happen w boaters w low levels of experience, attentiveness and skills. Picture 5 to 7 drinkers on the FB with lots of other boats around or general distractions and a 65' yacht goes by abeam about 200 yards away. Big broadside wake coming seemingly from nowhere. You get the picture. And of course there's windage but a normal FB boat hasn't got much windage at all compared to a sundeck w tented FB.

Opinion: Almost all boats look better W/O the FB. Saw an add in Yacht World for a 32 GB that had the FB removed. What a beautiful and salty looking boat she was. Where's Mr healhustler w his PS skills?
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Old 08-28-2012, 10:10 PM   #31
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Eric - That FACT is a good point! But, it simply means more drinks for thems left aboard after the 65'er has passed by! - Only funnen!!
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Old 08-29-2012, 06:25 AM   #32
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............

Ron, I love that nice big bridge you have on the Camano.
Thanks. That's one of the things we really like about the boat. It's a great place to sun bathe at rest or underway. I can lie down and take a nap on a mat while my wife runss the boat and still be ready for any questions or emergencies.
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Old 08-29-2012, 06:28 AM   #33
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Some bloat boats are so built up that there is virtually no place to BE outside and enjoy the water.

A 4 ft wide cockpit aft doesn't cut it , nor does sitting on an aft deck over a cabin have much to do with the water , tho it is outside.

These boats need the flybridge , just to get a feeling of being on thev water.

Of course to use the area in the South , it too will probably be fully canvased , so it can get canned air.

Which sorta defeats the purpose.

There may or may not be advantages underway , only you can decide if you spend a high enough percentage of time actually underway.

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Old 08-29-2012, 08:37 AM   #34
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Quote:
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There you have it,some do and some don't.
One thing though, the access to a flybridge from an aft cabin configuration boat is so much easier than say from a saloon/Europa style.With a aft decker you are not climbing a vertical ladder, you have two steps to the aft cabin roof and the 3 steps to the flybridge..... My old mum was still accessing our flybridge well into her 80's, (she had to, that's where the champagne is served).
Andy, that last point you made is precisely why we have not got rid of the large (now mostly unused since the eutectic failed and I converted inside large frig to 12v), icebox in our cockpit. It sits under the upper deck ladder, and acts as a landing halfway up the ladder, which is therefore in two parts, each less steep than one ladder all the way up, as on most sedan/Europa styles. Those almost vertical ladders are, as you say, much less user-friendly than your/our arrangement. We figue that feature alone is worth the modest loss of cockpit space the icebox takes up.
I think you can see it here....
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Old 08-29-2012, 09:53 AM   #35
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FACT: The FB dosn't add to the seakindlyness of any boat and it opens the door to very hazardous conditions that mostly happen w boaters w low levels of experience, attentiveness and skills.
FACT? No, opinion, nothing more. Opinions are like ********, everybody has one.


Quote:
Opinion: Almost all boats look better W/O the FB.
OK, that's better. You are stating your opinion. The Camano was originally available as a "Troll" model with a flybridge or a "Gnome" model without a flybridge. Very few Gnomes were ordered. The best I can tell, 5% or so of total production. So while your opinion is valid, it would be in the minority as far as the group of people buying boats like mine.



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Old 08-29-2012, 10:21 AM   #36
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After having owned a no flybridge sedan for many years, we now have a boat with a flybridge and, despite boating in a cool climate, we would now not have it any other way. We do 90% of our piloting from the bridge and only use the lower helm in inclement weather. Yes, the boat looks a little out of proportion with the bridge (a bit too tall for its length) but, even in pretty rolly and windy conditions, the higher COG and windage have not been a concern. Love the excellent visibility and extra living/entertaining space the bridge affords.
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:32 AM   #37
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IMO - And it seems per many of the posts to this thread...

Fly bridge is a usually appreciated boat part. Very useful too!

In effect: If looking for a bullet proof craft that absolutely cannot be toooo conflicted by the worst sea conditions - - > I recommend purchase of a Coast Guard rescue craft with real good seat belts so when it rolls over and rights itself in close duration 50' waves - you don't bump your head!
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:39 AM   #38
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Like this one? Complete with fly bridge. It seems anyway.

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Old 08-29-2012, 10:42 AM   #39
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Quote:
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On a boat 42 to 45' approx I think a FB is ...Stupid...A 30' boat w a round bilge w a FB??? Stupid...
Eric: But what about boats that are between 31' and 41'?

OK, I get the impression you don't like fly bridges. That's fine. But tell us how this model, at 43 feet would look without one. Honestly.
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Old 08-30-2012, 11:20 PM   #40
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HaHa Larry M. You got me. I can endorse that FB. It dosn't have any of the bad effects of FB. Saw one on an Eagle 32 like that. The Eagle and the Krogen people know something about balance on a boat.

Another FB I saw on the trip south that reduces the ill effects of same is evident in this nice Canadian yacht. The shape not only reduces the effects of windage but I'll bet it limits the number of people on the FB. No FB is of course better but this looks like a semi reasonable compromise.

I don't really hate FBs and I've never heard of an accident resulting from one but to me it's basically bad design. If a NA was designing a boat to be the best looking and performing boat that he'd be proud of in the company of other designers it probably wouldn't have a FB. I feel the same way about transoms slanting fwd instead of aft. And some boat's sterns now look more like a hot tub than a boat but I haven't heard of one getting pooped by a stern sea either. But that dosn't mean I have to admire it.

Ron,
My opinion is that that's a fact. And as you say I'm expressing my opinion. That's what forums are for Eh?
I must say, however that your Trolls look better WITH the FB. There are some boats where that factual opinion applies.
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