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Old 07-29-2015, 01:51 PM   #61
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I was thinking possibly passive listening for so d from the boys....assuming at some point they might make so ds audible in water for a longer distance than they could be seen.
Interesting idea as the ability to detect the human voice is so advanced today.
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Old 07-29-2015, 02:00 PM   #62
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Gotta love the press!! :-(
Can't begin to tell you how many times I've heard a report on the news of some crime, and the facts and information was so fouled up as to almost be unrecognizable...and I was on scene! ! Lol
It took 11 minutes to clear it up. They couldn't have waited 11 minutes before announcing and asked the question themselves. The rush to be first is what drives me crazy.

I remember years ago, early in my career, getting a call from a newspaper reporter. She was working on a story regarding a new facility to be built and wanted to confirm her information. I told her "no comment". She insisted. I repeated and told her if and when we had something to say, we'd say it and I would be glad to take her phone number. She then said, "I have a deadline today and I just wanted to be sure that what I was reporting was accurate." That's when I told her that if she chose to report information that she didn't know was accurate then that was her problem and was very unprofessional. That it was not our problem and no one would be commenting.

Let's see..I have rumors. I don't know if they're true or not. I have a deadline. So I'm going with them.

There was a time that all information was verified with at least two sources before it was published. It wasn't that long ago. I worked for a newspaper one summer during high school. I remember reporters taking stories to the editor but being put on hold until they could find a second source.
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Old 07-29-2015, 02:06 PM   #63
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I'm with you BandB!
The rush to be "first with breaking news", regardless of the errors, is horrible! Does absolutely no good.
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Old 07-29-2015, 02:08 PM   #64
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...At noon Wednesday, three vehicles pulled into the driveway of the family's home, and representatives from the U.S. Coast Guard, the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, and Tequesta Police got out and met with the family.
That could go either way. Hate to speculate.
Best wishes for all concerned.
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Old 07-29-2015, 02:13 PM   #65
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That could go either way. Hate to speculate.
Best wishes for all concerned.
After an hour at the home of Cohen, they left the home and reaffirmed that the search is "Active and open."
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Old 07-29-2015, 02:57 PM   #66
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Actually...I wouldn't be suprised if the USCG was calling off the active search and someone with all the wrong intentions stepped in and told them to continue....

The press actually might have only beat that "someone" to the punch by minutes.
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Old 07-29-2015, 03:26 PM   #67
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Actually...I wouldn't be suprised if the USCG was calling off the active search and someone with all the wrong intentions stepped in and told them to continue....

The press actually might have only beat that "someone" to the punch by minutes.
It could be. Obviously as they approach a reasonable in water survival time limit, calling it off becomes more probable. As to right or wrong intentions, I don't know that there are any. Yes, there's pressure to keep going. But if bowing to that pressure with an extra day or so gives both the family and the greater population more assurance, then it may well be worth it. If I was calling the shots, which obviously I'm not and won't ever be, I'd lean toward one or two days beyond the time the experts and I had concluded there was no real hope. I would also be having someone visit with the families about now informing them we were very close to that time and preparing them for it. There are times bowing to public pressure a bit may be worth it. If it takes a little extra to leave people able to say "I know they did all they can" then I'd do it.

More likely the press got a very sound bite from discussions taking place but the final call hadn't been made. Perhaps calling it off was even the recommendation from the officer who announced it wasn't called off. I'm sure the Captain doesn't have final authority.
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Old 07-29-2015, 03:37 PM   #68
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That's why the experts should make the call and no one else.

Bowing to external pressure sends the wrong signal to the rescue crews who trust their lives to the well seasoned, expert superiors who are the ones who send them out in harms way. A responsibility strongly endorsed by those in that position.

SAR crews who don't absolutely trust their operations officer are capable of doing all the wrong things for all the right reasons. Trust in the USCG in superiors is no different than the front lines of a battle....as I have been told by many a crossover pilot.

Not properly calling off a search is the baby version to a degree of sending an army in for a whim to satisfy someone's interests and not worth the price of casualties.

Politics should only be about elections..but unfortunately it spreads it's poison far beyond.
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Old 07-29-2015, 04:04 PM   #69
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That's why the experts should make the call and no one else.

Bowing to external pressure sends the wrong signal to the rescue crews who trust their lives to the well seasoned, expert superiors who are the ones who send them out in harms way. A responsibility strongly endorsed by those in that position.

SAR crews who don't absolutely trust their operations officer are capable of doing all the wrong things for all the right reasons. Trust in the USCG in superiors is no different than the front lines of a battle....as I have been told by many a crossover pilot.

Not properly calling off a search is the baby version to a degree of sending an army in for a whim to satisfy someone's interests and not worth the price of casualties.

Politics should only be about elections..but unfortunately it spreads it's poison far beyond.
We must agree to disagree on that subject then. However, I would not do it unduly long nor do it without full discussion with those in charge of the USCG effort. It would simply be "can we please continue an extra day, knowing it's just for the families and others concerned."

I fully respect you feel that is wrong.

Part of it too is that there are no absolutes. There is no point in time at which we can say with 100% certainty they're dead or say we wouldn't find their floating dead bodies if we continued. Nearly certain, yes.

As equating with a front line of battle, I don't. There isn't the same risk. They are not comparable situations.

Now back to the facts, rather than our opinions. Fact is, the search continues and the chances of success have diminished to being very small.
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Old 07-29-2015, 04:50 PM   #70
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...politics should only be about elections..but unfortunately it spreads it's poison far beyond.
Agree 100%!!
Politics and power plays (little kingdoms) need to be left out of the equation!
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Old 07-29-2015, 05:41 PM   #71
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There was also a hoax saying the boys had been located. False.
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Old 07-29-2015, 05:47 PM   #72
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We must agree to disagree on that subject then. However, I would not do it unduly long nor do it without full discussion with those in charge of the USCG effort. It would simply be "can we please continue an extra day, knowing it's just for the families and others concerned."

I fully respect you feel that is wrong.

Part of it too is that there are no absolutes. There is no point in time at which we can say with 100% certainty they're dead or say we wouldn't find their floating dead bodies if we continued. Nearly certain, yes.

As equating with a front line of battle, I don't. There isn't the same risk. They are not comparable situations.

Now back to the facts, rather than our opinions. Fact is, the search continues and the chances of success have diminished to being very small.
You know my friend, although it may fly in the face of my previous response to psneeld, I'm going to have to give you kudo's on this post

By doing what you suggest, we take the matter from a purely technical aspect, to a more human level. If it were my kid or loved one, I'd want to know without question, that everything possible was done to find them.

By taking it a step or two further than what the "experts" suggest, and keeping it open a couple more days, you give the family an opportunity to adjust and in a way, come to grips with what may be the reality of the situation

The cost to keep it open a day or two longer can be astronomical to the "taxpayer"; however, IMHO we piss away way more money than that on useless governmental projects! Besides, these people are taxpayers too, and deserve everything they pay for.

But to drag it out "just to pacify some political motive". that's where I'd say we draw the line. Then again, than God, I don't have to make that call.

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Old 07-29-2015, 05:48 PM   #73
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There was also a hoax saying the boys had been located. False.
Great!

If done maliciously, that person needs to go to jail.....
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Old 07-29-2015, 06:05 PM   #74
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Off Duty: There's no right or wrong way to handle it. Regardless it's a horrible, no win situation.

As to the hoax, I know nothing more about it. It could be a rumor not intended to cause harm but believed. I actually heard someone say after the boat was found, "That's great they found the Florida kids." This was in NYC and I had to correct them. But all it would have taken was them telling a friend who posts it on facebook and a thousand others pass it on.
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Old 07-29-2015, 06:51 PM   #75
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At 11:37 AM the AP announced the search had been suspended. At 11:48 the USCG Southeast District announced that was false and there were no plans to suspend it today.

At noon Wednesday, three vehicles pulled into the driveway of the family's home, and representatives from the U.S. Coast Guard, the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, and Tequesta Police got out and met with the family.
Surprisingly, our local news outlet had this information about the same time you were posting. My first thought was that the AP had messed up but then I wondered if they were right and then the decision was quickly over ruled. I also wondered if the three agencies showed up to give the latest status, but also to lay out the realities, and prepare the family that a decision was going to be made to end the search soon.

SAR political hypocrisy was never so high than in the UK Cheeki Rafki incident. The boat was sailing to the UK from the Caribbean when it lost its keel and capsized in a storm last year. Two PLBs were heard for a short time and the USCG sent out planes even though it was really pushing the range limit. The boat was found all but under water and no survivors. The search was called off but the UK press had a fit so the US went back and searched some more. Eventually, a diver went under the boat and found the life raft still in place an no sign of life in the hull.

It was pretty obvious the crew on watch most likely had on the PLBs. Given the water temperature and weather conditions anyone in the water was not going to last long if they were still alive after the capsize. The crew down below is not likely to have made it out of the boat and were likely working on trying to fix/found the water leakage and pump out the boat when it capsized. There was radio communication to shore and it was known they were having problems including flooding.

The hypocrisy was that a short time later,a boat returning to the UK from the continent was over due. The UK searched for a day or so and then ended the search. The man showed up later in his damaged boat. Not one word was said about the search ending for this guy and they had not even found his boat much less finding an keel less, capsized boat. The decision was made to give up the search but since it was not the US giving up the search, the UK press did not have a fit. I was really shocked the UK stopped searching so quickly for that guy.

Later,
Dan
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Old 07-29-2015, 07:20 PM   #76
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The difference between politicians, everyone else and the guys at the pointy end of the spear.

Go figure.
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Old 07-29-2015, 08:26 PM   #77
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The difference between politicians, everyone else and the guys at the pointy end of the spear.

Go figure.
Well put!
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Old 07-29-2015, 08:28 PM   #78
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...I also wondered if the three agencies showed up to give the latest status, but also to lay out the realities, and prepare the family that a decision was going to be made to end the search soon...
Dan,

That's what I meant earlier, buy it could go either way.
My "guess", and that's all it is for now, is it was probably a little of both
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Old 07-29-2015, 11:10 PM   #79
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I saw on Facebook they were found. I hope that's true. A lot of FB stuff is BS.
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Old 07-29-2015, 11:27 PM   #80
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I saw on Facebook they were found. I hope that's true. A lot of FB stuff is BS.
No, they have not been found.
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