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Old 06-10-2016, 03:17 AM   #121
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We used to undo the benefits of a playing squash session with a Chinese meal afterwards. Made it a rule you used chopsticks, you learnt quickly and got good at using them or you missed out.
The raw wooden ones might be traditional but I almost always see plastic versions that feel a lot better to eat with.
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Old 06-10-2016, 06:28 AM   #122
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Certainly respect people's rights to use chopsticks. Feel no more obligated to use them in a restaurant than switching to a sailboat in Annapolis, Maryland (self-proclaimed sailboat capital of the world). In that same restaurant I'm not giving up my chair to eat while sitting on the floor either.

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Old 06-11-2016, 05:50 AM   #123
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This is the weirdest thread drift I can remember. :-)
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Old 06-11-2016, 07:01 AM   #124
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I thought I'd gone to some weird 2nd amendment chopsticks thread.
Blunt versus sharp ends debate.
The right to carry chopsticks in public etc etc.
I must admit I struggle with the little buggers.
Even my cat can use chopsticks better than me.
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Old 06-11-2016, 08:10 AM   #125
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Old 06-11-2016, 08:39 AM   #126
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By convention the gaff, or lacking a gaff, the position at the stern of the boat is the position of highest honor and respect. A flag of lower order such as a club pennant an owners private signal or a novelty flag or other such flag may be flown from a bow staff. To fly the American flag from he bow staff is to disrespect the flag. It places the flag in a position of lower honor and respect.
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Old 06-11-2016, 12:44 PM   #127
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I think that when travelling in countries not our own it is insensitive if not downright rude to not show respect for the host country. This means flying a national flag of the visitor's country and flying a courtesy flag of the host country. We tend to forget that we are guests and are only in the country because the host trusts that we will behave with decorum.

I must be very old school but I wish to advertise to the host that I have respect for their customs and their laws by flying a courtesy flag. I am also proud of my country and fly my country's flag at the stern.

Last weekend there were two boats in our anchorage with no flags whatsoever - the only way to tell where they were from was the registration letters. Both were foreign and telegraphed to me their total lack of respect. I'm pretty sure that my interpretation is wrong based on appearances only but I put them on the same level as people who litter or throw their cigarette butts out their car windows - badly brought up, ignorant or arrogant.
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Old 06-11-2016, 12:56 PM   #128
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I think that when travelling in countries not our own it is insensitive if not downright rude to not show respect for the host country. This means flying a national flag of the visitor's country and flying a courtesy flag of the host country. We tend to forget that we are guests and are only in the country because the host trusts that we will behave with decorum.

I must be very old school but I wish to advertise to the host that I have respect for their customs and their laws by flying a courtesy flag. I am also proud of my country and fly my country's flag at the stern.

Last weekend there were two boats in our anchorage with no flags whatsoever - the only way to tell where they were from was the registration letters. Both were foreign and telegraphed to me their total lack of respect. I'm pretty sure that my interpretation is wrong based on appearances only but I put them on the same level as people who litter or throw their cigarette butts out their car windows - badly brought up, ignorant or arrogant.
....not much is expected of Americans ....especially to show any kind ofrespect at any level....yet it is the flag and those who would die for it who make that irreverence a possibility.

I think only a few things are REALLY important and one of those is respecting what you believe in.

While I know my country is far from perfect, it's ideals are pretty close and worth respecting at a higher level than just about anything else...

You are correct in that if I feel that another country is worth visiting, I should go out of my way to show that same respect.
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Old 06-11-2016, 01:24 PM   #129
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Wifey B: Thanks to the two of you for making my point.

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By convention... To fly the American flag from he bow staff is to disrespect the flag. It places the flag in a position of lower honor and respect.
What if bow staff is all one has and it's the only flag? Flying it proudly on the bow is disrespectful? Do you think the person doing so intended to disrespect it? Seems not to me since they were flying it.

What then if I'm a visitor to the US, am I disrespecting then by flying it on the bow as a courtesy?

What if I'm a US Citizen but my boat is flagged in the Cayman Islands? (No, ours are US flagged).

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I think that when travelling in countries not our own it is insensitive if not downright rude to not show respect for the host country.

Last weekend there were two boats in our anchorage with no flags whatsoever - the only way to tell where they were from was the registration letters. Both were foreign and telegraphed to me their total lack of respect. I'm pretty sure that my interpretation is wrong based on appearances only but I put them on the same level as people who litter or throw their cigarette butts out their car windows - badly brought up, ignorant or arrogant.
Totally agree with your comment on flying courtesy flags as in some places it's even law. And I do like the word "courtesy."

However, I can't agree with being so judgmental on what is ultimately a superficial thing. Might well have been there first time and not known. Maybe never flown a flag and not equipped to do so. Maybe searched before leaving and couldn't find one so hoping to buy one in Canada. Or maybe ignorant and arrogant. I'm going to assume they didn't know and meant no disrespect if I see them. Between the US and Canada, US and Mexico and US and Bahamas we see a lot of those inexperienced in foreign travel by water. All the involved countries probably should include the flag info, quarantine and courtesy, on their customs and entry pages and whether required or recommended. Maybe someone stole their flag even. I'm just not going to jump to judgement.
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Old 06-11-2016, 02:26 PM   #130
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I completely agree that the judgement thing is my issue as I am admittedly a hold-out in the acceptance of most things "politically correct."

If nobody adheres to customs and protocol, if the lack of manners and courtesy have become immaterial or have no consequences and the result is "...not going to jump to judgement..." Then, with respect, why even bother? Reject manners and civility as a consequence of modern times?

Delay a trip because you can't find your flag? Probably not.

(It was only a couple of years ago that there were very severe consequences to letting a flag touch the ground, or making a bikini out of one. Once upon a time flags held more reverence.)

I know some places with open carry laws where interactions are elaborately polite because there are consequences. Does the lack of immediate consequences (not actually being fined or ejected) mean that your actions are excusable?

I think boaters should be held to the highest standard. We have to think ahead, be prepared, act prudently, take care of our passengers, not pollute etc etc all before (or part of) having fun. I think that part of boating is tradition and sober contemplation. Our actions or lack thereof can have dire consequences that place many others who try to rescue or help us in peril too. Our conduct should include manners and their consideration as it is the reflection of a thoughtful, responsible boater.

Rant Switch...............OFF
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Old 06-11-2016, 05:08 PM   #131
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Rant Switch...............OFF
Wifey B: Nothing wrong with your rant. I think we all should aspire to those standards, just not going to be quick to judge others harshly. I judge more on the basis of how I see people treating others. I look for kindness and decency and excuse formality. Just a difference but the world needs people who feel like you and people who feel like me.
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Old 06-11-2016, 05:49 PM   #132
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Best to fly them correctly.

Better to not fly than fly disrespectfully.

Thus it's OK to mention to people that they are disrespecting something important.

Most flags I don't really care sbout...one I really do care about. I also know others really care about their national flag, so I would do my best to fly it the way they would want me to , as I would them.

Really not a hard thing to do.....and it's not superficial to everyone.
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Old 06-11-2016, 06:38 PM   #133
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Best to fly them correctly.

Better to not fly than fly disrespectfully.

Thus it's OK to mention to people that they are disrespecting something important.

Most flags I don't really care sbout...one I really do care about. I also know others really care about their national flag, so I would do my best to fly it the way they would want me to , as I would them.

Really not a hard thing to do.....and it's not superficial to everyone.
Wifey B: Simple for us. Simple for you. Some just don't know. We have US Flags, Quarantine flags, and flags for 30 other countries or so. We fly the US flag on the stern, the quarantine or foreign flag as appropriate. No other flags.

We do not comply with the "book" which says 1" per foot when it comes to size. We choose sizes we feel are appropriate for the boat.

We also always carry a backup for each flag.

We do not fly any club or boat or state or other flag or burgee.
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Old 06-17-2016, 01:37 AM   #134
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So stupid question time again.
Must a flag be flown?
And if yes, and you did take it down at night, and forgot to put it back up in the morning is it a biggie?
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Old 06-17-2016, 04:17 AM   #135
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Fying the Jersey "Red Ensign" from the stern (70 x 100cm)

Flying the "Q" or courtesy flag from the Starboard first spreader (33 x 47cm)

No other flags.
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Old 06-17-2016, 06:33 AM   #136
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So stupid question time again.
Must a flag be flown?
And if yes, and you did take it down at night, and forgot to put it back up in the morning is it a biggie?
I'm guessing this varies from country to country. Do not believe there is any requirement to fly the American flag in the USA from recreational vessels. Do believe the quarantine flag is required by law for foreign flags until clearing customs.

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Old 06-17-2016, 07:16 AM   #137
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So stupid question time again.
Must a flag be flown?
And if yes, and you did take it down at night, and forgot to put it back up in the morning is it a biggie?
Must is a funny word...in some countries...they are more particular than others...not flying one when at sea is one thing, upon entering a countries territorial waters....can be interpreted several ways and remember who the guy with the gun and the interpretation might be.

It's about respect...if you have a tendency to forget taking it down...light it...a cheap solar garden light will work. If you leave it up on a yacht....for a night or so...probably no one would say anything. Leave it flying 24X7 and let it get worn and tattered....there are people who find that offensive...and in some countries if their courtesy flag doesn't look as good as your ensign...it has been said they will fine you.
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Old 06-17-2016, 08:36 AM   #138
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" Not flying one at sea" puts you in the legal category of a " flag less vessel " and most likely will attract a visit from the authorites.
I love flying the Flag, like most veterans it meaning is clear to us and we honor it and where honored to serve our country and the flag, and the nation for which it stands.
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Old 06-17-2016, 10:13 AM   #139
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" Not flying one at sea" puts you in the legal category of a " flag less vessel " and most likely will attract a visit from the authorites.
I love flying the Flag, like most veterans it meaning is clear to us and we honor it and where honored to serve our country and the flag, and the nation for which it stands.
Not positive...but as long as you are somehow registered with a country, just flying or not flying a flag isn't intent to be stateless.

Yes not flying will bring more questions...and flying one different than from the state country on your stern will certainly get state departments on the phone pronto....but have approached many a vessel without a flag on the high seas and usually within a half hour or so (probably much quicker now) it was pretty easy to determine her legal status.

The ones that took several days usually wound up decared stateless because no country would claim them.
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Old 06-17-2016, 09:24 PM   #140
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Thanks everyone.
I have to flag shop before I head to Mexico this winter oops. ..
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