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Old 02-20-2015, 07:41 PM   #21
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Never gave a thought to the cost issues. I know a number of friends with sailboats more valuable than our Krogen.

My theory is that very few trawlers are full displacement and it is the full displacement trawlers which come down here.
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Old 02-20-2015, 09:00 PM   #22
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You mean other than all the SD boats like GBs for charter down there?
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Old 02-20-2015, 10:21 PM   #23
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I think this whole concept of what boats are actually pretty much full time cruising has much to do with the people doing the cruising.

Its impossible to argue that stabilizers do not provide a better ride.
It's impossible to argue that a FD boat with stabilizers will not give a better ride.

So, the people that g full time cruising tend to buy that type of boat.

Thats not to say that a non stabilized SD boat cant do it comfortably. Its just not the typical boat of choice for those making a cruising lifestyle in those kind of conditions.
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Old 02-20-2015, 10:49 PM   #24
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Never gave a thought to the cost issues. I know a number of friends with sailboats more valuable than our Krogen.

My theory is that very few trawlers are full displacement and it is the full displacement trawlers which come down here.
I can only speak to our experience. We've sailed a 43 ft and a 50 ft sailboat; now we have the Selene. The sailboats were cheaper to buy and operate. The trawler is more comfortable a home. I'd rather have the sailboat than the trawler in rough seas but the overall living comfort of the trawler is light years ahead of the sailboat.

Anyway, i digress. I think its overall less expensive to operate a sailboat than a trawler and that helps account for the large amount of sailboats in the caribbean vs. Trawlers.
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Old 02-21-2015, 01:35 AM   #25
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Its funny the differing opinions we see here on TF vs another forum I am active on, the Bayliner Owners Club.

Tonight there is going on a discussion about the Bahamas. Several members have indicated that they regularly explore that area in their 38' Bayliners, and I beleive at least one does it on his 32' Bayliner.

Of course these are unstabilized, SD boats.

Its not the boat that makes the trip guys, its the captain. His skill, his judgement. Any boat can do almost anything within its fuel endurance.
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Old 02-21-2015, 01:56 AM   #26
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Its funny the differing opinions we see here on TF vs another forum I am active on, the Bayliner Owners Club.

Tonight there is going on a discussion about the Bahamas. Several members have indicated that they regularly explore that area in their 38' Bayliners, and I beleive at least one does it on his 32' Bayliner.

Of course these are unstabilized, SD boats.

Its not the boat that makes the trip guys, its the captain. His skill, his judgement. Any boat can do almost anything within its fuel endurance.

Yes, but realize that the jumps being made say across the gulfstream is only 50 miles. Then you have bank which is nice and shallow so it doesn't kick up too much. Then say from Bimini to Exumas, cross the nice bank then make 50 something mile run over deep water then your back in nice shallow water but after that it's all deep water and exposed.
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Old 02-21-2015, 04:30 AM   #27
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You mean other than all the SD boats like GBs for charter down there?
Sorry didn't mean to confuse things. There is a difference between the Virgins and the Eastern Caribbean. If you are in the Virgins and stay there wave conditions are relatively calm. If you go south to the Eastern Caribbean you enter the trades with the almost constant 15kt winds from the east and the resulting waves on the beam. If you go west from the Virgins and take the north side of Puerto Rico or further west to the Dominican Republic you have the Atlantic swell coming from the north as you are traveling east and west.

In six years in the Eastern Caribbean I have yet to notice a Grand Banks or other semi-displacement trawler among the smaller cruising boats. Will admit haven't spent a lot of time around St. Martin where it might be different.

As far as comparative costs between the trawlers and the sailboats you have raised my interest and I will pay attention to that in the future. A conversation with one sailor also from Chicago over dinner last night highlights the complexity of the comparison. He sailed for 30 years out of Chicago. Many Macs and other races. When he retired and started cruising he found his good size sailboat inadequate. She needed a generator, roller furling, upgraded refrigeration, a bigger battery bank, water maker, SSB, etc etc.

Admittedly the charter boats, mostly 40 to 50 ft cats now, are stripped boats. Don't know how much they are worth but friends who have bought one of them for cruising have spent a large amount of money equipping the boat after purchase.
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Old 02-21-2015, 07:02 AM   #28
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"Friends who have bought one of them for cruising have spent a large amount of money equipping the boat after purchase.

This is the norm, the equipment and requirements for an coastal cruiser or dock queen are not what is required for independant living , months between power posts.

Only purchase a vessel that is doing what your goal is , or be prepared for a years work and a wheelbarrow of cash , and lots of compromises.
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Old 02-21-2015, 09:59 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by ksanders View Post
Its funny the differing opinions we see here on TF vs another forum I am active on, the Bayliner Owners Club.

Tonight there is going on a discussion about the Bahamas. Several members have indicated that they regularly explore that area in their 38' Bayliners, and I beleive at least one does it on his 32' Bayliner.

Of course these are unstabilized, SD boats.

Its not the boat that makes the trip guys, its the captain. His skill, his judgement. Any boat can do almost anything within its fuel endurance.
The Bahamas is not the same animal as the Caribbean. There is a reason they call Georgetown "chicken harbour".

And believe me, the right boat can make all the difference in a trip.
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Old 02-21-2015, 11:34 AM   #30
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Thanks for everyone's feedback. To me, I'm taking away the following:

1. I'm going to need stabilizers to be comfortable. I could make the occasional trip without them, but if this is going to be a full-time thing, life would be pretty bad without them.
2. I should make every attempt to get a boat with stabilizers already installed. It would (hopefully) be cheaper than retrofitting them on an older boat.
3. Alternatively, if I just can't afford a boat with stabilizers, I should be looking at a sailboat, which will make for a more comfortable passage and would be lower cost.

Any other thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Would especially love to hear more about the sailboat option - particularly monohull vs. catamaran in terms of making up for the comfort lost compared to a trawler.
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Old 02-22-2015, 07:07 AM   #31
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3. Alternatively, if I just can't afford a boat with stabilizers, I should be looking at a sailboat, which will make for a more comfortable passage and would be lower cost.

Folks that usually look at motor boats do not enjoy the down inside living of most sail boats.

Most marine motorists want to be up up on deck with huge windows .

This of course is why there are few ocean going motor boats , and their cost of construction is far higher , and the inside is smaller due to tankage and other requirements.

Even circumnavigators spend 90%+ of their time in port.

When I cruised the Carib , I knew of no one that ran back and forth , usually ONE a 1500 mile slog to windward (power or sail) was enough.

In your shoes for an inexpensive try out of cruising , I would start with a good sail boat 30-35LWL , and try the easy way south .

Sail to Bermuda, turn right and head south.

Sail the Windwardstoo and fro (usually a beam reach) till you have seen it all and then blow downwind from the USVI to the USA , stopping as you see a need to sight see.

Have fun!

Find a boat that is just back from cruising , and your fix up costs will be low , and no new equippment will be needed.

Fairly easy under $25K.
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Old 02-22-2015, 07:27 AM   #32
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Cardude01, I would definitely go with the sail rig. It gives you so many extra benefits. The only negative is the bridge clearance issue and if that is much a concern for you. Wish it was an option on our boat.
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Old 02-22-2015, 10:46 AM   #33
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Thanks for everyone's feedback. To me, I'm taking away the following:

1. I'm going to need stabilizers to be comfortable. I could make the occasional trip without them, but if this is going to be a full-time thing, life would be pretty bad without them.
2. I should make every attempt to get a boat with stabilizers already installed. It would (hopefully) be cheaper than retrofitting them on an older boat.
3. Alternatively, if I just can't afford a boat with stabilizers, I should be looking at a sailboat, which will make for a more comfortable passage and would be lower cost.

Any other thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Would especially love to hear more about the sailboat option - particularly monohull vs. catamaran in terms of making up for the comfort lost compared to a trawler.
I am coming from being a sailboat owner and moving to a trawler. I also looked at the GB46 and Defever 49 models as well as the Hatteras 48 LRC. After much reading and discussion I came to the conclusion I wanted stabilizers for my trawler given that the Pacific Coast is my local cruising ground. Retrofitting the stabilizers is very expensive, a bit less so if you have the skills and time to do your own installation (I don't.) So I came to the conclusion I would look for trawlers that have stabilizers already installed. Although they are harder to find, the price difference doesn't seem close to the cost of installation.

As for living space - one of the reasons I picked a trawler vs a sailboat for my next vessel was the much improved living space. Being able to sit in a salon and look out 270 degrees is wonderful. On my sailboat I have to stand up to see anything. Other reasons included inside steering (the Pacific Coast of Northern California is rarely a warm place!).

I can't yet tell you if I'm happy with my decision since I'm about a week away from taking possession of a Krogen 54 (stabilized). After a 1300 mile trip from Ketchikan, AK to San Francisco, CA, I'll report back!

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Old 02-22-2015, 11:08 AM   #34
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All right! Going to the Bahamas and Caribbean on a Sail Catamaran with a $250,000 budget! Now you are talkin'! Shallow draft, lots of great space on deck/net to enjoy, great views from main salon, great water access from transoms, fuel efficient, sails great, won't roll at anchor, not teak on deck to mess with! I highly recommend these boats! I have captained many charters in the BVI aboard 45-50ft sailboats. The most popular boats with my guests were the 45-47 ft. Robertson and Caine catamarans. Except die hard monohull sailors these boats were so much fun to live on and play on. So easy to handle, acres of deck space to lounge, a back porch under cover for dining, easy acces to the water from the stepped down transoms, well ventilated sleeping areas, easy to keep clean and service because of design. If I get tired of coastal cruising and want to go back to the Caribbean this is my choice. Charter one in the BVI with some friends and see what I mean....
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Old 02-22-2015, 11:16 AM   #35
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FL to Bahamas to T&C to USVI: Stabilizers?

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Cardude01, I would definitely go with the sail rig. It gives you so many extra benefits. The only negative is the bridge clearance issue and if that is much a concern for you. Wish it was an option on our boat.

Question on the bridge clearance: is there a magic number one should limit mast height to? For instance I think the lowest fixed bridge on the Okeechobee is 49'.

Wonder what a smaller/shorter get home/steady sail rig would cost? Similar to the cost of a paravane installation maybe?

I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but just trying to think about different ways to stabilize. Not that I'm going to actually do anything...
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Old 02-22-2015, 11:36 AM   #36
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Cardude, you might want to talk to the Island Packet company engineers about the idea of a rig for your boat. Chances are that the idea was considered when the design for your boat was done. Personally I would not fool with it unless going to the Bahamas frequently or to the Caribbean. Chain plates will have to be fitted. Selection of mast step placement will be an issue. I would try to find a rig from a sailboat that has been totaled by an ins. co. and cut it down to a nice steadying rig size. YMMV
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Old 02-22-2015, 06:40 PM   #37
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I am not sure but I think Island Packet made that boat in two options. One with the sail and one without. You would need to check with them and see if all the structural provisions are already built into the boat. I expect they are but don't know for sure.
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Old 02-22-2015, 06:49 PM   #38
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Cardude, you might want to talk to the Island Packet company engineers about the idea of a rig for your boat. Chances are that the idea was considered when the design for your boat was done. Personally I would not fool with it unless going to the Bahamas frequently or to the Caribbean. Chain plates will have to be fitted. Selection of mast step placement will be an issue. I would try to find a rig from a sailboat that has been totaled by an ins. co. and cut it down to a nice steadying rig size. YMMV

Yeah, I'm not doing anything until I get more time on the boat. I'm just fiddling around with different options.

This boat's cousin, the SP, is a motorsailer. My PY could be fitted with the same sailing rig, but at a pretty considerable cost. They would install factory chain plates, winches and everything else, effectively turning my boat into a factory SP motorsailer.

If it looks like we really will be cruising the Caribbean maybe I will consider that. Even with the factory sail refit I will be in this boat quite a bit less than other SP Cruisers out there for sale so it might make sense.
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Old 02-23-2015, 06:28 AM   #39
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"Question on the bridge clearance: is there a magic number one should limit mast height to? For instance I think the lowest fixed bridge on the Okeechobee is 49'."

Most folks on the East coast find the many 55ft bridges to be the limiting factor.

the 48ft RR bridge for the Lake O entrance can be solved 2 ways. There is a tipping service that will weight the mast to bring you down , or simply sail to Key west and head up the Gulf coast.

New bridges are now 65ft , but the old ones will still be there decades from now.
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Old 02-23-2015, 06:58 AM   #40
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I am coming from being a sailboat owner and moving to a trawler. I also looked at the GB46 and Defever 49 models as well as the Hatteras 48 LRC. After much reading and discussion I came to the conclusion I wanted stabilizers for my trawler given that the Pacific Coast is my local cruising ground. Retrofitting the stabilizers is very expensive, a bit less so if you have the skills and time to do your own installation (I don't.) So I came to the conclusion I would look for trawlers that have stabilizers already installed. Although they are harder to find, the price difference doesn't seem close to the cost of installation.

As for living space - one of the reasons I picked a trawler vs a sailboat for my next vessel was the much improved living space. Being able to sit in a salon and look out 270 degrees is wonderful. On my sailboat I have to stand up to see anything. Other reasons included inside steering (the Pacific Coast of Northern California is rarely a warm place!).

I can't yet tell you if I'm happy with my decision since I'm about a week away from taking possession of a Krogen 54 (stabilized). After a 1300 mile trip from Ketchikan, AK to San Francisco, CA, I'll report back!

Richard


Have a great trip and keep us up to date
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