jukesy
Senior Member
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- LUCKY US
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- American Tug
Damn that's funny Baker. Best analogy I've heard and that is probably the best way to sum it up!
First Question from the New Guy (long)
- Thread starter MC Escher
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Damn that's funny Baker. Best analogy I've heard and that is probably the best way to sum it up!
Nomad Willy
Guru
The guy knows boats and now women .... and claims it.
I agree w jukesy. That's funny.
You'd be amazed at all the handy stuff my wife has in her purse.
I agree w jukesy. That's funny.
You'd be amazed at all the handy stuff my wife has in her purse.
- Joined
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- Now boatless - sold 6/2018
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- Had a Clipper (CHB) 34
And they're usually so heavy they can be used to belt a mugger, just as long as they see the mugger first...
Just talkin' wife's handbags...not boats...I wouldn't want to risk damage socking a mugger with my boat...no way...use a boathook..!
Just talkin' wife's handbags...not boats...I wouldn't want to risk damage socking a mugger with my boat...no way...use a boathook..!
Bay Pelican
Moderator Emeritus
Two comments for MC
Ocean Capabilities. In the trawler market these are specialized boats that make a number of compromises to increase their seagoing ability. On the east coast the vast majority of voyages are suitable for a coastal cruiser. You can probably spend a lifetime coastal cruising and never even want to do ocean voyages. Someone new to boating may be better off considering a boat for these uses first.
As to a project boat, such as refitting a fishing trawler. Two mistakes can be made here. Seldom does it make financial sense, especially in this market where used boat prices are depressed. If you are refitting a boat you are paying top dollar for parts and labor, whereas if you buy a used boat equipped as you want you are buying in a depressed market. You would likely find your project boat will not sell for what you have put into it.
The second issue is that it is unlikely that anyone who has not spent a couple of years on a boat can foresee what is important to them in a boat. To customize a boat for your current expectations may result large costs for items you won't consider valuable later. Whereas if you buy a boat for its market price with the items you think you will want you will be able to resell it and buy in your second boat the items you have determined you want.
Having lived on a pilot house boat with a good sized covered aft deck I find these wonderful boats at boat the marina and at anchor
Marty
Ocean Capabilities. In the trawler market these are specialized boats that make a number of compromises to increase their seagoing ability. On the east coast the vast majority of voyages are suitable for a coastal cruiser. You can probably spend a lifetime coastal cruising and never even want to do ocean voyages. Someone new to boating may be better off considering a boat for these uses first.
As to a project boat, such as refitting a fishing trawler. Two mistakes can be made here. Seldom does it make financial sense, especially in this market where used boat prices are depressed. If you are refitting a boat you are paying top dollar for parts and labor, whereas if you buy a used boat equipped as you want you are buying in a depressed market. You would likely find your project boat will not sell for what you have put into it.
The second issue is that it is unlikely that anyone who has not spent a couple of years on a boat can foresee what is important to them in a boat. To customize a boat for your current expectations may result large costs for items you won't consider valuable later. Whereas if you buy a boat for its market price with the items you think you will want you will be able to resell it and buy in your second boat the items you have determined you want.
Having lived on a pilot house boat with a good sized covered aft deck I find these wonderful boats at boat the marina and at anchor
Marty
ranger58sb
Guru
M. C. Escher? Really? Nice
There's ocean going... and then there's ocean going. You might want to visit that a bit more. A boat well fit for coastal ocean work doesn't need to be the same as a boat fit for transoceanic crossings. Also, "occasional" versus "daily" can imply different coastal builds...
-Chris
LOL, I should maybe clarify my clarifications...
Would I like the ability to sail from NY to Lisbon? Sure. Is that really important for my plans? Not so much.
In my mind a "coastal" boat is one where I never really plan on getting out of sight of land, which I'm going to say is roughly 4 miles away, assuming my eyes are roughly 10-12 feet above the water. "Ocean Going" means there is no land to be seen.
Do I need "Any Ocean - Any Weather"?
Nahh... probably couldn't afford it if I did anyway.
BUT, I want to be able to go from Anchorage, down to and through the Canal, then back up to NY. Ideally I want full access to the Great Lakes as well.
Now, Florida to the Bahamas can be done in a fast Pontoon boat in good weather.
But what if I wrap up a job in NYC and then get offered a contract in Galveston. In November? (Or any variation on that question?) Even running up and down the coast can be trying, and the Gulf is no joke when the weather gets up. Neither is Lake Erie for that matter.
Part of the idea here is to have a pleasant interlude between jobs. But another part is to be able to take on work in a very wide range of locations. So I have to plan for when conditions are bad, not when they are good; which in itself makes me think in terms of something solid in a displacement hull and without excessive air draft.
I know full well that there are many notions in my head that will fall by the wayside, but that's why I'm planning on taking it so slow and tackling one question at a time.
I do very much appreciate everyone's input though. Especially the critical responses, since they may well be more important than the suggestive ones.
Would I like the ability to sail from NY to Lisbon? Sure. Is that really important for my plans? Not so much.
In my mind a "coastal" boat is one where I never really plan on getting out of sight of land, which I'm going to say is roughly 4 miles away, assuming my eyes are roughly 10-12 feet above the water. "Ocean Going" means there is no land to be seen.
Do I need "Any Ocean - Any Weather"?
Nahh... probably couldn't afford it if I did anyway.
BUT, I want to be able to go from Anchorage, down to and through the Canal, then back up to NY. Ideally I want full access to the Great Lakes as well.
Now, Florida to the Bahamas can be done in a fast Pontoon boat in good weather.
But what if I wrap up a job in NYC and then get offered a contract in Galveston. In November? (Or any variation on that question?) Even running up and down the coast can be trying, and the Gulf is no joke when the weather gets up. Neither is Lake Erie for that matter.
Part of the idea here is to have a pleasant interlude between jobs. But another part is to be able to take on work in a very wide range of locations. So I have to plan for when conditions are bad, not when they are good; which in itself makes me think in terms of something solid in a displacement hull and without excessive air draft.
I know full well that there are many notions in my head that will fall by the wayside, but that's why I'm planning on taking it so slow and tackling one question at a time.
I do very much appreciate everyone's input though. Especially the critical responses, since they may well be more important than the suggestive ones.
M. C. Escher? Really? Nice
There's ocean going... and then there's ocean going. You might want to visit that a bit more. A boat well fit for coastal ocean work doesn't need to be the same as a boat fit for transoceanic crossings. Also, "occasional" versus "daily" can imply different coastal builds...
-Chris
My name is Eric Scher.
The MC just seemed to be a fitting modifier.
FF
Guru
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But what if I wrap up a job in NYC and then get offered a contract in Galveston
No big deal, mostly it is a matter of weather the river or bay you start in is frozen solid.
I have run from Ct to Fl in Jan/Feb and only hassle was the need for 5 gal cans for extra fuel , as many fuel stops are closed.
GREAT , a free O nite tieup with out getting the anchor wet.
No big deal, mostly it is a matter of weather the river or bay you start in is frozen solid.
I have run from Ct to Fl in Jan/Feb and only hassle was the need for 5 gal cans for extra fuel , as many fuel stops are closed.
GREAT , a free O nite tieup with out getting the anchor wet.
ranger58sb
Guru
My name is Eric Scher.
The MC just seemed to be a fitting modifier.
Very fitting, especially if you like his artwork
OK, so then there's coastal... and then there's coastal. Sorta same construct; some boats will do that all the time (including island hopping in most bearable weather -- usually the boat will take more abuse than the pax), and some will be fine as long as you pay more attention to weather.
In any case, it sounds like you're on the right track: identify the way you'll use it -- including where and when -- as best you can, and let that info be one of your guides.
So far, about a gazillion boats will meet your developing criteria... with the only maybe new point is the 19' (thereabouts) bridge clearance somewhere along the Great Loop route.
-Chris
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DING DING DING!!!!
Mr. Scher, you need to meditate on this post for awhile!!! This is good stuff!!!
Nomad Willy
Guru
I was wondering when Rick would step and be counted on this.
This is even more devissive than anchors.
Northern Lights saying "run em hard" and Steve DeAntionio say'in 75% load 75% of the time. And then so many saying it dosn't amount to anything. Run'em however.
I am, however, moved mostly by what engine manufacturers say.
The boats mostly are only well suited to those that can afford them new. They can easily handle the fuel cost but when the boat gets old and cheap the people buying them can't gracefully afford the fuel so we find twin engined boats running around on one engine. Not the way they were intended to be used and far from ideal for numerous reasons but adhered to out of necessity.
So if the engine dies one has the opportunity to install an engine more suitable to their needs. But then the hull isn't suitable to their engine. And twin engined guys have few options unless they can find a cheap used engine the same as the original. I'd present the obvious solution to the delima but some would say "we've heard that before Eric".
But to be sure "run what you have" is the best temporary solution and employed by most.
This is even more devissive than anchors.
Northern Lights saying "run em hard" and Steve DeAntionio say'in 75% load 75% of the time. And then so many saying it dosn't amount to anything. Run'em however.
I am, however, moved mostly by what engine manufacturers say.
The boats mostly are only well suited to those that can afford them new. They can easily handle the fuel cost but when the boat gets old and cheap the people buying them can't gracefully afford the fuel so we find twin engined boats running around on one engine. Not the way they were intended to be used and far from ideal for numerous reasons but adhered to out of necessity.
So if the engine dies one has the opportunity to install an engine more suitable to their needs. But then the hull isn't suitable to their engine. And twin engined guys have few options unless they can find a cheap used engine the same as the original. I'd present the obvious solution to the delima but some would say "we've heard that before Eric".
But to be sure "run what you have" is the best temporary solution and employed by most.
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As a happy “Pleasure” Boater – currently running a gasser, and, being a TF member who is somewhat familiar with diesel boats from past experiences... I often lurk reading threads about Diesels...
WOW... the never ending multi-multi person diatribes... of so many different statements and predictions and frustrations and wishes regarding much-trouble/no-trouble, how-to-run/how-not-to-run, which-is-best/which-is-worst, I-love-it/I-hate-it... throughout ongoing conjectures as well as apparently practical experiences regarding most if not all makes, models, types, and levels of diesel marine engines.
It Simply Makes One Wonder – WHY Do You Even Bother to “Pleasure” Boat???
SOOOO... I’ve been reading these same diesel engine related discussions (arguments?) for years on end in hundreds (a thousand maybe?) of posts on various forums. I’ve also listened to many boaters describe their torrid affairs with type and size diesels. In addition I’ve listened to boaters’ who have love affairs with many different type diesels... I term them: perfectly happy diesel “Pleasure” Boaters!
Reason I mention the above: Little effort, low maintenance cost, seldom breakdown, affordable replacement (if needed), and quiet during operation – IMPORTANTLY – Little to No Gas Engine Owner’s Needing to Argue for Time in Memorial!!!
This has probably been said before, but here it goes again – Be it Gas or Diesel – Use your “Pleasure” Boat as best you can. If a motor breaks down – repair it! In other words, simply put caps on the word “PLEASURE” in Boating – and, enjoy boat life!
Due to this post... I can see the arrows, whose heads are dripping with diesel fuel, flying toward me...!!! LOL
WOW... the never ending multi-multi person diatribes... of so many different statements and predictions and frustrations and wishes regarding much-trouble/no-trouble, how-to-run/how-not-to-run, which-is-best/which-is-worst, I-love-it/I-hate-it... throughout ongoing conjectures as well as apparently practical experiences regarding most if not all makes, models, types, and levels of diesel marine engines.
It Simply Makes One Wonder – WHY Do You Even Bother to “Pleasure” Boat???
SOOOO... I’ve been reading these same diesel engine related discussions (arguments?) for years on end in hundreds (a thousand maybe?) of posts on various forums. I’ve also listened to many boaters describe their torrid affairs with type and size diesels. In addition I’ve listened to boaters’ who have love affairs with many different type diesels... I term them: perfectly happy diesel “Pleasure” Boaters!
Reason I mention the above: Little effort, low maintenance cost, seldom breakdown, affordable replacement (if needed), and quiet during operation – IMPORTANTLY – Little to No Gas Engine Owner’s Needing to Argue for Time in Memorial!!!
This has probably been said before, but here it goes again – Be it Gas or Diesel – Use your “Pleasure” Boat as best you can. If a motor breaks down – repair it! In other words, simply put caps on the word “PLEASURE” in Boating – and, enjoy boat life!
Due to this post... I can see the arrows, whose heads are dripping with diesel fuel, flying toward me...!!! LOL
Phil Fill
Guru
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- Eagle
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We been a live aboard for 16+ years, and the main reason is my wife bought a big enough boat that gives each of us our own space, has the creature comforts, fuel efficient, low maintenance, wide body to max living space, and long rang capable. Since the Eagle is big and stable we don't stow/store stuff and can be underway in 15 minutes in the protected in land waters of the PNW. Neither my wife nor I carry a purse and being a live aboard we do not have much STUFF.
If you are going to dream then dream big!
Don’t worry Art the arrows are headed in my direction.
If you are going to dream then dream big!
Don’t worry Art the arrows are headed in my direction.
FF
Guru
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- Messages
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>So if the engine dies one has the opportunity to install an engine more suitable to their needs.<
The problem is the folks that purchase Cheap Boats frequently do not have the skill set to marinize and then change out a bad engine.
A yard doing the work , (unless its a gas IO) will cost more for their labor than the boat can be replaced for.
The problem is the folks that purchase Cheap Boats frequently do not have the skill set to marinize and then change out a bad engine.
A yard doing the work , (unless its a gas IO) will cost more for their labor than the boat can be replaced for.
- Joined
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- Texas
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- Floatsome & Jetsome
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Load her up with girls...what's not to enjoy??!!!! And this Is a good view of a "proper" swim platform with molded in steps and handrail!!!!....which solves one of the sundeck dilemmas!!!!
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Geez, Art! You noticed the eyes?
Yup - I am a thinker!
Eyes = Gateway to the mind. Capture the mind and soul usually follows. Get both in tow and suddenly no cloths needed!!
Why remain in fantasy when the real thing is readily available. Many say it’s in the kiss, well, that is true to some extent... but, by looking into the eyes you can usually determine what kind of kiss you should start with.
Then, if lucky for both parties - - > Much Fun Could Ensue! – LOL
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