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Old 10-12-2013, 11:18 AM   #21
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Here is a good liveaboard. Not sure where you would dock this monster... $89,000.

http://www.passagemaker.com/boats-fo...house-trawler/

Sent from my iPhone using Trawler
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Old 10-12-2013, 11:34 AM   #22
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I tend to agree with Eric's line of thinking. If living aboard at dock in the main priority, why buy a boat that possibly can be lived in but not really designed for it.
Why not look at houseboats? They are designed from the water up to live in. There is much more living space per foot of dock space. There are even some models that will handle moderate seas to some degree. Often they are much cheaper than to buy and maintain than a trawler type boat. If you just want to take the odd cruise on protected waters, this may be the way to go.
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Old 10-12-2013, 12:53 PM   #23
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Many years ago I lived on a 28' sailboat in Long Beach... and it was small as 28 footers go! But even more uncomfortable was the No Live Aboard Regulation that we broke daily. The slip was located right below a busy Stan Miller Yacht brokerage; you can imagine the lengths we went through not to get caught - no lights, no cooking etc.

We absolutely loved every moment!

Fast-forward 25 years to my 54 foot trawler floating in a great (legal live aboard) mooring and the wife panicking every time I hinted we consider moving onto it.

There's been more boats in my life than I can remember and only a few things about design I've learned for sure:

#1 - Smaller the boat / the more fun I have.
#2 - As they say; "Life's too short for an ugly boat".

Just find something you like and try it! If life on the water is for you but the boat isn't right then change it up - then you'll know exactly what you want. Most long term marina residents I know have done just that.
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Old 10-12-2013, 01:10 PM   #24
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I am not a livaboard, so this opinion is probably not worth much. I too like the Europa or pilothouse styles for living at anchor or dockside. Fewer steps, and easier boarding. If steps or boarding from ladders are not a problem then something like a 44 DeFever flush deck is something that would interest me. Lot's of space inside and out.
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Old 10-12-2013, 01:32 PM   #25
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Just to clarify something...

It is true that I may live in a particular place for an extended amount of time. However, I'm not looking for a houseboat or a European style barge, even though the barge idea is very appealing in terms of living space. If it was just a question of living by the water and having the ability to head out and get away from it all for a while, I would just buy a house with an ocean view and some kind of sport boat.

What I am actually thinking about a boat that has legitimate ocean going capabilities.
It's a question of freedom. Freedom of movement being the biggest one.
Plus, in terms of my work, what I do is somewhat specialized and is by it's nature only semi-permanent. At the moment I am actually chasing a contract in Pittsburgh and another in Anchorage. Obviously Pittsburgh isn't oceanfront, but I mention it as an illustration.


Back to the subject...
It has occurred to me that it might be wise to buy a large fishing trawler that has a sound hull and simply refit her the way I want. I don't know yet.

What I do know if this...

Anyone who has ever owned a gun safe has experienced the moment when they think; "I should have bought a bigger safe".

The most important parameter in my mind is that if the boat isn't roomy enough for me to be comfortable living on it as a full time residence then it can't really fulfill it's purpose, but it can't be so big that I need a tender to get ashore.

Hence my decision that figuring out what "fits" is my first problem. If I get that right, the rest should fall into line.
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Old 10-12-2013, 02:25 PM   #26
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Ocean capabilities???

Gotta take back all that I said.

People go down to the ocean in Sundeck and Europa types but that's about as recommendable as living in a small sailboat. I know a guy that lived on a small (25') sailboat in Thorne Bay AK. May as well live in a tent except in the tent you'd have more head room.
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Old 10-12-2013, 02:48 PM   #27
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What I am actually thinking about a boat that has legitimate ocean going capabilities.

Plan on having 1/100 the boats to look at that are true ocean worthy boats , and plan on 300% more expensive than a coaster.

Plan on less room inside as those big fuel and water tanks take up room , even when not in use.

Ocean capable vessels tend to be larger , so enough crew can be carried that its not an endurance voyage.

For sail 3 is the minimum crew with 4 being easier. 3 on 6 off and the 4th crew is OFF , but cooks .

Look at sailboats to find what style sea bunk will work when dropping off 8 ft waves.

HINT , it isnt a king or queen sized athwartship lubber bunk.
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Old 10-12-2013, 05:29 PM   #28
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It appears you have received some great information to start your search. Best of luck. If I could add anything it would be to confirm one post that suggested you try and get out on the water as soon as possible even if it is not on your dream boat. Start out small and inexpensive (if budget is a concern) and get a feel for time on the water. Even after growing up on the water on the east coast plus ten years of boating with my wife on the west coast, I still found moving aboard (part time) took some adjusting. While the life style is great and only a few people in this world will ever experience it, it is not for everyone and those who do experience it will eventually end up back on land at some point. Boat buying and ownership is not inexpensive so you will want to have as much experience behind you as possible prior to making the step of living aboard.
After enjoying our five years of living aboard (part time) and now being away for four years are looking to get back on the water but not ready for the commitment of living aboard. A night or two will be our limit of time aboard thus the boat we purchase will fit our needs. Find the smallest boat that meets your needs and save a ton of money. Hope this helps you in your journey!

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Old 10-12-2013, 08:01 PM   #29
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It appears you are in the "dream stage". At some point you will have to WAKE UP!!!! Sadly, the very large vast majority of liveaboards do NOT take their boats out. They have crap everywhere and taking the boat out becomes too tedious so the boat stays at the dock. You have already decided that you want to use your boat...at least in your dream! So find a boat that is easy enough to take out and big enough to be comfortable in.

Storage is a big deal!!! Not how much storage but how it is organized. Boats are generally built to a market for interior space and storage compartments are secondary. You will find many boats that definitely have a lot of storage...but it is all of these little cubby hole type compartments so you would end up having to store your necessary stuff(not your "crap") all over the boat. So centralized storage so you can get dressed in one spot and not chase down different items of your wardrobe. DRAWERS and LARGE hanging lockers!!! Not many boat builders have large deep drawers because they take up too much interior space. But if you can find a boat that has lots of deep large drawers it makes life aboard much simpler. Sounds simple enough...right??? Good luck finding that. Hatteras has been very good in this regard. CHB/Present too. Prairie as well. My girlfriend and I lived on a Prairie 29 for 5 years and we were able because of huge drawers and a huge hanging locker. Otherwise your stuff is everywhere and you won't take your boat out!!!!

As has been mentioned, sundecks for a tremendous amount of space for the size. There are a lot of levels on board but you do not have to compromise boarding. There are boats that have very decent swim platforms with molded in steps so you do not have to climb ladders. There are also boats that have salon doors so you can board amidship and walk right into the salon. And there are boats with a cockpit that allows you to board into the cockpit and then up steps to the sundeck. I have a 35 Carver aft cabin motor yacht and it is a BIG 35 footer. Every single person That comes aboard asks how big it is and their assumption is always in the mid 40s and are dumbfounded when the find out it is 35ft. This discussion takes place in a large salon while lounging in a recliner.

Anyway, the easiest boats to handle are sedans/europas/expresses. They also happen to be the boats with the least amount of interior space. The exact opposite is true of sundecks....lotsa space...harder to handle. So if you go sedan/Europa, Go bigger in length and you can afford to go smaller if you go sundeck.

Don't forget about the organization of space!!!!
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Old 10-12-2013, 08:11 PM   #30
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Oh I forgot. One more thing. Do you know how women's purses work??? It doesn't matter how big they are, women will fill them up with shit. Same goes for the boat. So don't get too wrapped up in size. Just get it big enough to be physically comfortable in and have enough space for your "necessary stuff"!!!! You will have to somewhat minimize your life. Get a storage unit or, better yet, sell your unnecessary stuff.
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Old 10-12-2013, 08:17 PM   #31
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Oh I forgot. One more thing. Do you know how women's purses work??? It doesn't matter how big they are, women will fill them up with shit. Same goes for the boat. So don't get too wrapped up in size. Just get it big enough to be physically comfortable in and have enough space for your "necessary stuff"!!!! You will have to somewhat minimize your life. Get a storage unit or, better yet, sell your unnecessary stuff.
Damn that's funny Baker. Best analogy I've heard and that is probably the best way to sum it up!
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Old 10-12-2013, 11:14 PM   #32
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The guy knows boats and now women .... and claims it.

I agree w jukesy. That's funny.

You'd be amazed at all the handy stuff my wife has in her purse.
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Old 10-13-2013, 03:54 AM   #33
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And they're usually so heavy they can be used to belt a mugger, just as long as they see the mugger first...
Just talkin' wife's handbags...not boats...I wouldn't want to risk damage socking a mugger with my boat...no way...use a boathook..!
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Old 10-13-2013, 06:12 AM   #34
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Two comments for MC

Ocean Capabilities. In the trawler market these are specialized boats that make a number of compromises to increase their seagoing ability. On the east coast the vast majority of voyages are suitable for a coastal cruiser. You can probably spend a lifetime coastal cruising and never even want to do ocean voyages. Someone new to boating may be better off considering a boat for these uses first.

As to a project boat, such as refitting a fishing trawler. Two mistakes can be made here. Seldom does it make financial sense, especially in this market where used boat prices are depressed. If you are refitting a boat you are paying top dollar for parts and labor, whereas if you buy a used boat equipped as you want you are buying in a depressed market. You would likely find your project boat will not sell for what you have put into it.

The second issue is that it is unlikely that anyone who has not spent a couple of years on a boat can foresee what is important to them in a boat. To customize a boat for your current expectations may result large costs for items you won't consider valuable later. Whereas if you buy a boat for its market price with the items you think you will want you will be able to resell it and buy in your second boat the items you have determined you want.

Having lived on a pilot house boat with a good sized covered aft deck I find these wonderful boats at boat the marina and at anchor

Marty
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Old 10-13-2013, 10:05 AM   #35
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What I am actually thinking about a boat that has legitimate ocean going capabilities.

M. C. Escher? Really? Nice

There's ocean going... and then there's ocean going. You might want to visit that a bit more. A boat well fit for coastal ocean work doesn't need to be the same as a boat fit for transoceanic crossings. Also, "occasional" versus "daily" can imply different coastal builds...

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Old 10-13-2013, 06:37 PM   #36
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LOL, I should maybe clarify my clarifications...

Would I like the ability to sail from NY to Lisbon? Sure. Is that really important for my plans? Not so much.

In my mind a "coastal" boat is one where I never really plan on getting out of sight of land, which I'm going to say is roughly 4 miles away, assuming my eyes are roughly 10-12 feet above the water. "Ocean Going" means there is no land to be seen.

Do I need "Any Ocean - Any Weather"?

Nahh... probably couldn't afford it if I did anyway.

BUT, I want to be able to go from Anchorage, down to and through the Canal, then back up to NY. Ideally I want full access to the Great Lakes as well.


Now, Florida to the Bahamas can be done in a fast Pontoon boat in good weather.

But what if I wrap up a job in NYC and then get offered a contract in Galveston. In November? (Or any variation on that question?) Even running up and down the coast can be trying, and the Gulf is no joke when the weather gets up. Neither is Lake Erie for that matter.


Part of the idea here is to have a pleasant interlude between jobs. But another part is to be able to take on work in a very wide range of locations. So I have to plan for when conditions are bad, not when they are good; which in itself makes me think in terms of something solid in a displacement hull and without excessive air draft.


I know full well that there are many notions in my head that will fall by the wayside, but that's why I'm planning on taking it so slow and tackling one question at a time.



I do very much appreciate everyone's input though. Especially the critical responses, since they may well be more important than the suggestive ones.
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Old 10-13-2013, 06:38 PM   #37
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M. C. Escher? Really? Nice

There's ocean going... and then there's ocean going. You might want to visit that a bit more. A boat well fit for coastal ocean work doesn't need to be the same as a boat fit for transoceanic crossings. Also, "occasional" versus "daily" can imply different coastal builds...

-Chris

My name is Eric Scher.

The MC just seemed to be a fitting modifier.
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Old 10-14-2013, 05:39 AM   #38
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But what if I wrap up a job in NYC and then get offered a contract in Galveston

No big deal, mostly it is a matter of weather the river or bay you start in is frozen solid.

I have run from Ct to Fl in Jan/Feb and only hassle was the need for 5 gal cans for extra fuel , as many fuel stops are closed.

GREAT , a free O nite tieup with out getting the anchor wet.
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:57 AM   #39
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My name is Eric Scher.

The MC just seemed to be a fitting modifier.

Very fitting, especially if you like his artwork

OK, so then there's coastal... and then there's coastal. Sorta same construct; some boats will do that all the time (including island hopping in most bearable weather -- usually the boat will take more abuse than the pax), and some will be fine as long as you pay more attention to weather.

In any case, it sounds like you're on the right track: identify the way you'll use it -- including where and when -- as best you can, and let that info be one of your guides.

So far, about a gazillion boats will meet your developing criteria... with the only maybe new point is the 19' (thereabouts) bridge clearance somewhere along the Great Loop route.

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Old 10-14-2013, 09:30 AM   #40
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Two comments for MC

Ocean Capabilities. In the trawler market these are specialized boats that make a number of compromises to increase their seagoing ability. On the east coast the vast majority of voyages are suitable for a coastal cruiser. You can probably spend a lifetime coastal cruising and never even want to do ocean voyages. Someone new to boating may be better off considering a boat for these uses first.

As to a project boat, such as refitting a fishing trawler. Two mistakes can be made here. Seldom does it make financial sense, especially in this market where used boat prices are depressed. If you are refitting a boat you are paying top dollar for parts and labor, whereas if you buy a used boat equipped as you want you are buying in a depressed market. You would likely find your project boat will not sell for what you have put into it.

The second issue is that it is unlikely that anyone who has not spent a couple of years on a boat can foresee what is important to them in a boat. To customize a boat for your current expectations may result large costs for items you won't consider valuable later. Whereas if you buy a boat for its market price with the items you think you will want you will be able to resell it and buy in your second boat the items you have determined you want.

Having lived on a pilot house boat with a good sized covered aft deck I find these wonderful boats at boat the marina and at anchor

Marty
DING DING DING!!!!

Mr. Scher, you need to meditate on this post for awhile!!! This is good stuff!!!
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