Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 01-06-2014, 10:28 PM   #41
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by skidgear View Post
divebums,

I'd recommend you read the string referenced below for a detailed discussion of the Detroit 8.2T. There's a difference between "direct hands on knowledge" that is nothing more than second hand anecdotes....and actually living with the engine for almost ten years. http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s...elp-12762.html
Sorry Skidgear to throw water on your 8.2s, but as is divebums, I was faced with a decision as to whether to buy a vessel with 8.2s, or not. After discussions with 8.2 owners and a DD distributor in the PNW who does DD surveys, the vessel's engines were deemed not acceptable. The vessel in question was a Tolly 44. After talking with several Tolly club 8.2 owners, the decision was really pretty simple with so many better choices out there.

The OP does not currently own a vessel and he has asked for advice. His solicitation is not how to keep 8.2s running but should an engine that saw a decade or so of building, going belly up in the mid nineties, be considered over an engine brand that has seen 40 plus years of positive history. To me the answer is no.
__________________
Advertisement

sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2014, 10:29 PM   #42
Guru
 
City: Hotel, CA
Country: Fried
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
I always tell people I know to find a boat that has been re-powered and re-tanked. These are the very expensive items that is best to have other people pay for. However you'll then need to accept their choices of equipment.

And of course it's ideal to find a boat that has new everything.
That's the route we took with our Owens. It is also the route we will strive to take when we eventually replace it too. If you like to tinker about have no fear as there's always something to do on a boat, even new or recently re-fit ones.

Have heard both negative and positive about the subject engines(2nd hand of course) to realize that an engine survey by a competent professional is the only way to separate the wheat from the chaff. All boats are not maintained equally and what you are buying in a used boat truly is the previous owners pride of ownership or lack thereof.
__________________

__________________
Craig

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2014, 02:06 PM   #43
Senior Member
 
charles's Avatar
 
City: patterson
Country: usa
Vessel Model: CHB 45 Pilot House
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 158
Once you have decided on THE boat and are ready to buy, have the surveyor ready then, arrange with the owner/broker for you and your wife to spend one night and day on board, at the dock. RUN EVERY SYSTEM FOR THE NIGHT, unplug from shore power and run the genset, a/c the works, including water and sewer systems. You will be surprised at what you learn. This includes running the main engines in idle for hours.

Been there done that.
CCC
__________________
Charles C Culotta, Jr
Patterson, La.
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS
charles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2014, 02:22 PM   #44
Guru
 
Daddyo's Avatar


 
City: Cruising East Coast US
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Grace
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,441
Quote:
Originally Posted by charles View Post
Once you have decided on THE boat and are ready to buy, have the surveyor ready then, arrange with the owner/broker for you and your wife to spend one night and day on board, at the dock. RUN EVERY SYSTEM FOR THE NIGHT, unplug from shore power and run the genset, a/c the works, including water and sewer systems. You will be surprised at what you learn. This includes running the main engines in idle for hours.

Been there done that.
CCC
Charles,
That is almost never going to happen. I would never advise a seller to allow someone else to stay onboard and run systems before purchase.
__________________
Mark Bowerman
Brokerage owner and cruiser
Esse Quam Videri
http://graceyachting.com/
Daddyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2014, 03:19 PM   #45
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by charles View Post
This includes running the main engines in idle for hours. CCC
Really!

For those out there who assume the internet to be gospel, sometimes statements come along that are mystifying.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2014, 03:43 PM   #46
Guru
 
N4712's Avatar
 
City: South FL
Country: U.S.A
Vessel Name: Oliver
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 47 Hull# 12
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddyo View Post
Charles, That is almost never going to happen. I would never advise a seller to allow someone else to stay onboard and run systems before purchase.
+1 I've never heard of such things.
__________________
Thanks, Oliver
M/V Oliver
Nordhavn 47 Hull #12
N4712 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2014, 03:46 PM   #47
Guru
 
N4712's Avatar
 
City: South FL
Country: U.S.A
Vessel Name: Oliver
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 47 Hull# 12
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by charles View Post
This includes running the main engines in idle for hours. CCC
Hmmm, wasn't there a thread not to long ago that was quite long on this subject?
__________________
Thanks, Oliver
M/V Oliver
Nordhavn 47 Hull #12
N4712 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2014, 04:47 PM   #48
Senior Member
 
ronlord's Avatar
 
City: Grand Island NY
Country: US
Vessel Name: Missy
Vessel Model: Mainship 350
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by charles View Post
Once you have decided on THE boat and are ready to buy, have the surveyor ready then, arrange with the owner/broker for you and your wife to spend one night and day on board, at the dock. RUN EVERY SYSTEM FOR THE NIGHT, unplug from shore power and run the genset, a/c the works, including water and sewer systems. You will be surprised at what you learn. This includes running the main engines in idle for hours.
CCC
I couldn't imagine someone allowing you to do that, but if you could, more power to you! We did that after we closed on our previous boat before transporting it home. Still found issues on the 3 day cruise home, but nothing major.
ronlord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2014, 05:12 PM   #49
Senior Member
 
jukesy's Avatar
 
City: Victoria BC
Vessel Name: LUCKY US
Vessel Model: American Tug
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 268
After many trips back and fourth over the boarder to purchase our tug, the broker offered to let us stay aboard for a weekend. We were not allowed to leave the dock but had full use of everything. It was probably what sealed the deal for the admiral.
jukesy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2014, 07:22 AM   #50
Senior Member
 
charles's Avatar
 
City: patterson
Country: usa
Vessel Model: CHB 45 Pilot House
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 158
I only comment on things that I have personally done. I never speculate on line.
I did stay on board and found a bad bearing in the generator diesel, among other things. To make it clear this was BEFORE the survey so that I could report to him and I did including the engine surveyor.
Do note that the purchase contract was signed and the seller had my, substantial deposit.
My experience only and as always YMMV.
__________________
Charles C Culotta, Jr
Patterson, La.
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS
charles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2014, 09:15 AM   #51
Senior Member
 
City: Tampa, FL
Country: USA
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 245
As someone else said, if the seller is willing to let you stay on the boat overnight, more power to you. Can't hurt to ask. But were I selling a boat myself, I would never allow a potential buyer to spend the night. No more than I would allow a potential buyer of my house to spend a weekend in the home by themselves.
denverd0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2014, 01:27 PM   #52
Guru
 
Conrad's Avatar
 
City: Calgary
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Blue Sky
Vessel Model: Nordic Tugs 42 Hull #001
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,553
Although perhaps a bit unusual, the concept of overnighting on a potential purchase could be viewed as an extension of the sea trial. But only after the normal agreement is in place c/w deposit and only the subjects such as survey(s) and sea trial are left to be completed.

Charles, does the seller require you to sign anything re potential damage done during your wild overnight stay?
__________________
Conrad
Berthed in
Campbell River BC
Conrad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2014, 04:09 PM   #53
Senior Member
 
charles's Avatar
 
City: patterson
Country: usa
Vessel Model: CHB 45 Pilot House
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 158
Conrad, no additional paperwork, recall that he had a pile of money from me, the survey and haul out was scheduled for the next day.
Had he said no then I would have insisted that I spend the day aboard all day doing the same as a night. Run all systems and engines etc. go through all the paces, and had he refused, by the way I told them that I wanted this BEFORE we signed any papers, I think that I would have walked. Yes I would have walked. I found that the batteries were BAD would start the engines ONE time and that was it.
CCC
__________________
Charles C Culotta, Jr
Patterson, La.
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS
charles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2014, 10:52 AM   #54
Member
 
City: Venice, Fl.
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 12
Charles, I did the same thing as you on my last boat. I also was allowed to leave the dock and anchor outside the Harbor overnight. It was all written into the original purchase offer and also after an employee of the broker had checked me out on the operation of the boat.
Engineman3rd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2014, 02:53 PM   #55
TF Site Team
 
ksanders's Avatar
 
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: LISAS WAY
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,956
Not a chance I would let someone stay overnight on my boat prior to closing.

As a seller there is no upside to this practice.

Selling a large boat is selling a dream. A dream of cruising, a dream of all the room to stay aboard for longer periods of time.

Having a couple look over a boat, they can see the dream.

Having a couple spend the night or worst the weekend on a boat can do nothing but take away from that dream.

Thats because the reality is that as nice as your boat is it probably does not meet everything the couple dreams about.

Nope, I'd say keep that dream alive. Let the buyers look. Let the buyers inspect. Let the buyers dream.

Do not let the buyers experience the dream. Fantasy is always better than the real thing.

This might sound harsh or even like I am advocating misleading a potential buyer. If thats the case rest assured that is not the intention.

The reality is that we as boat owners all have things we do not really like about our boats. Compromises that the designer made when building the boat. Owners learn about these things after the fact, and they learn to work around them. If prospective buyers experience too much prior to closing, then they may never buy your boat, or any boat for that matter.

I'll use my boat as an example...

I have a wet bar. What a great looking feature. As a prospective buyer I loved it. The fact is that its a waste of space. I have never used the wet bar sink.

Another is the drawers in the master stateroom. Yes there are allot of drawers. They look nice. They work great. They are also a tad smaller than I realized prior to purchase. They will fit exactly two pairs of jeans each.

Or the built in Vaccume. Great feature. I loved it. Then later I realized that without a rotating brush no vacumme works worthy a diddly on carpet.

But, do I really like my boat... Of course! I work around these and all the other little things.

If I would have focused on all the little things as a buyer, I probably would have never found a boat I was willing to buy.

So I bought the dream, and glad I did.
__________________
Kevin Sanders
Bayliner 4788
Seward, Alaska
www.mvlisasway.com
ksanders is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2014, 04:40 PM   #56
Guru
 
City: Venice Louisiana
Country: United States
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,097
I had a rock solid buyer. I told him every negative thing I knew about the boat. He was a knowledgeable boater. He wanted to spend some time on the boat so I told him to get the key from the marina manager, just for the day, as I could not be there. He looked over every inch of it, I'm sure. Decided not to buy, ok, no harm done. EXCEPT, he turned off my freezer and fridge, both full of stuff, lots of fish in the freezer, and turned all 4 bilge pump zones to the OFF position. A week later a friend checked on the boat and calls to tell me the freezer is off and has leaked it contents into the saloon carpet, flies are thick. I tell him to turn on the breaker and I will be there asap. I got there later in the week and found the bilge pumps off. Good thing the old girl dont leak, she may have been on the bottom. That will never happen again, I dont care who he is or how much he seams to know.
kulas44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2014, 01:33 AM   #57
Newbie
 
City: Ft Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1
I'm interested in this discussion as I am looking at a 36 foot gulfstar trawler or my first purchase.I want to be able to fish, getting out of the weather and the occasional overnight. So far the advise has been invaluable.
La Perla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2014, 02:08 AM   #58
TF Site Team
 
Pau Hana's Avatar


 
City: Seattle, WA
Country: Good Ol' US of A!
Vessel Name: Pau Hana
Vessel Model: 1989 PT52 Overseas Yachtfisher
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,647
This thread reminds me of a movie scene from "Clear and Present Danger":

[Jack needs a helicopter]
Jack Ryan: I'm here to rent the Huey.
Helicopter owner: We don't rent it anymore, but it is for sale.
Jack Ryan: How much?
Helicopter owner: Two million dollars.
Jack Ryan: Uh, my pilot and I will have to take it for a test drive.
Helicopter owner: Of course, you just have to leave a deposit.
Jack Ryan: How much is that?
Helicopter owner: Two million dollars.


While I can not refute the experience of others, I will say that this is the first time I've ever heard of a potential buyer being allowed to overnight on a vessel prior to becoming the owner of a vessel. IMO, doing so opens a Pandora's box full of potential problems. The prospective buyer has no vested financial interest in the vessel (and a deposit doesn't count as vested interest). Allowing the prospective buyer free and full access to poke and prod on a vessel unknown to him is irresponsible.
__________________
Peter- Marine Insurance Guru & tuna fishing addict!

1989 52' PT Overseas yachtfisher
Pau Hana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2014, 12:02 PM   #59
Guru
 
Ski in NC's Avatar
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,890
We had a boat for sale down here- Knowledgeable buyer came to check it out. Talked a good talk, good enough for broker to let him stay on the boat overnight with survey the next day. Well, some time during the night the guy found the liquor stash and helped himself to a considerable amount. Now properly drunk, he fell off the boat between the boat and the dock. Tried to climb up oyster and barnacle covered piles and cut himself to shreds. Finally got out of the water and into the boat. Bled all over. Apparently had trouble sleeping, so he tried different bunks and sofas, bleeding on all. Stumbling around, knocked all sorts of things over, breaking fixtures, etc. 7am broker and surveyor show up to a disaster. Guy was still drunk and incoherent. Survey day was canceled. Boat damage in several thousands. Later, guy wanted his deposit back and was talking about suing for his injuries. Broker and owner were so mad they threatened to "go mafia" on him. Last I heard, the guy lost his deposit and crawled back under a rock somewhere.
Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2014, 12:04 PM   #60
Guru
 
boatpoker's Avatar
 
City: Port Credit
Country: Ontario
Vessel Name: DIRT FREE
Vessel Model: Benford Fantail 38
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ski in NC View Post
We had a boat for sale down here- Knowledgeable buyer came to check it out. Talked a good talk, good enough for broker to let him stay on the boat overnight with survey the next day. Well, some time during the night the guy found the liquor stash and helped himself to a considerable amount. Now properly drunk, he fell off the boat between the boat and the dock. Tried to climb up oyster and barnacle covered piles and cut himself to shreds. Finally got out of the water and into the boat. Bled all over. Apparently had trouble sleeping, so he tried different bunks and sofas, bleeding on all. Stumbling around, knocked all sorts of things over, breaking fixtures, etc. 7am broker and surveyor show up to a disaster. Guy was still drunk and incoherent. Survey day was canceled. Boat damage in several thousands. Later, guy wanted his deposit back and was talking about suing for his injuries. Broker and owner were so mad they threatened to "go mafia" on him. Last I heard, the guy lost his deposit and crawled back under a rock somewhere.
Well, that settled it for me. I now know my position on the matter
__________________

boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012