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I believe that is a safety issue. What if a kid grabbed the unused controls, or a guest tried them for "feel?"



I doubt it. I have mechanical controls that are both active at both stations all the time. It never seems to be a safety issue.

I was a little confused by your description. It seems to me that the controls should power on whenever the engine is started. If you can't power the controls you sure don't want the engine to start. There is the rare occurrence for starting at the dock for maintenance but I would think that you would want engine controls to be powered at the same time as the engine is running. We sure don't have a separate switch to start our raw water pumps.

I have mechanical controls but would love to have electronic. Would also like a wireless control. I'm not afraid of electronic controls.
 
I doubt it. I have mechanical controls that are both active at both stations all the time. It never seems to be a safety issue.

I was a little confused by your description. It seems to me that the controls should power on whenever the engine is started. If you can't power the controls you sure don't want the engine to start. There is the rare occurrence for starting at the dock for maintenance but I would think that you would want engine controls to be powered at the same time as the engine is running. We sure don't have a separate switch to start our raw water pumps.

I have mechanical controls but would love to have electronic. Would also like a wireless control. I'm not afraid of electronic controls.

I start the engines first without the controls on, of course the transmissions are in neutral or they would not start. Then I switch on all of the electronics including the controls. This gives the engines that little bit longer to warm.

I am not sure the order is important. Engines don't need controls to start, but they do need raw water.

The boat isn't going anywhere without the controls on, regardless of engines being on.
 
I'm an electronics engineer, doing industrial controls, remote sensing, and "bullet-proofing" electronics that has to survive lightning.

I would not have a fly-by-wire control system in my boat. I'm on the fence with electronic engines, too.

You handled the matter like a pro!

What is the added advantage of "fly by wire" controls on a boat? I have tried and true dual Morse mechanical controls and love simplicity--just not understanding the added complexity. As noted in another post, all I do is a quick check with the controls before starting the engine.
 
There have been fly-by-wire systems at both pilots stations for years in planes. There's no need to 'sync' the controls before transferring control from one side to the other.

I'm not sure why both boat stations cannot be active with one coasting in standby while the other is working, then switch roles automatically when the other knobs are moved. My mechanical controls always work at the same time...:confused::confused:

FlyWright,

Would agree with you but in planes, the controls are side by side... so if the copilot does something the captain sees it right away. The Airbus was a bit different, and as I understand the stick on the non flying side did not move, which I would not like. But I've never been a Bus driver, so not that familiar.
But the automation for Airbus didn't work well at the Habsheim airshow, in France when it flew into the ground.

I sure like positive control, not the fly by wire concept....in boats or planes.

But fly by wire is where things are going. I don't believe I had an option if I wanted a 400 Mainship. And are there many new boat with totally manual control?
 
That's true, Seevee, there's no feedback to the other station on some FBW. I also am a disciple of the Boeing approach, although I flew Learjets with mechanical flight controls and digital FADEC power levers.

My boat's mechanical throttle and shift cables provide feedback to both stations, but my hydraulic steering does not. In fact, on my boat, the FB helm overpowers the lower helm steering. I've deduced this is due to higher pressures on the upper helm but have not bothered to research that point far enough to be able to prove that thesis. Regardless of the reason, there is no feedback at the lower helm when the FB helm overpowers the steering commands from the lower helm.

TBH, it's never been a problem...except for that embarrassing time when I forgot to disengage the AP from the lower helm and proceeded up to the FB to steer. After a half hour of constantly correcting to the left, I thought I had a hydraulic problem. When I returned to the lower helm, I immediately found the cause! :facepalm::banghead::D
 
In fact, on my boat, the FB helm overpowers the lower helm steering. I've deduced this is due to higher pressures on the upper helm but have not bothered to research that point far enough to be able to prove that thesis.

On my hynautic steering, the helms are little hydraulic pumps. If my tower wheel is turned CW 1rpm, and the lower station is turned CCW 1rpm, the rudder does not move. Basically, it SUMS the rotation from each. The each have equal authority.

There was one notable Airbus crash where the PF and the PNF were providing exact opposite elevator input. May have been the AFrance in the atlantic incident. There was no obvious input to either pilot that conflicting control input was being provided.
 
Yes, I think you're right, Dan. I think it was a sealed static port affecting the pitot-static indications. IIRC, the lack of feedback was a contributor to the accident...one of the links in the chain.

My Wagner hydraulic steering system sounds a little different from yours. I like the idea that you get some feedback.
 
Another comment about controls....

I've got the Glendenning power control for the engine (single). It works fairly well, but I'm not a big fan of it. It's a bit awkward to change helms. The receiving helm pushes the "take" button, moves the throttle forward and reverse and back to neutral and control should change. Often it doesn't, so repeat until it does.

Once in the process the "warm" light started blinking and there was no control at either station. Fortunately we were in an open area, but putting the anchor was firmly on my mind. I shut off power to the control, turned it back on and in a few seconds control resumed.

I don't have a manual on it, so I need to get one. Also, wonder if there's a back up system available..... some models have that capability.

Thoughts?
 
The electronic controls need time to warm up? ...my old cable controls seem just fine to me
 
I just looked, for the first time, at the Glendinning electronic control system manual.

Overall, I'm encouraged at their use of CAN bus backbone for the communications link. CAN, if you don't know, is a automotive driven data system standard that has been in use for a couple decades now on millions of over the road vehicles of all types. It has inherent robustness in FEC (forward error correction), the electronic IC drivers at each end have good voltage transient withstand, and generally is a solid, proven physical layer.
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I've done a little design work with it for my type of products.

So, I can't tell what Glendinning does for product testing, and the manual gives no indication. I can tell you what type of testing I would like to see in a system like this, and just the test plan would occupy pages of text. They have leveraged, fundamentally, like I said, a great data backbone, but product testing must go much further than that.

In a critical product space such as this, you need, as a manufacturer, to insure that the product has a low enough defect level to not cause your legal department to work overtime and drive you into bankruptcy with product liability judgements.

In a salt water environment, with "untrained" operators, with zero shipboard maintenance and testing protocols, with a wide variety of threats, the product design must be solid.

Here are some things that I would find interesting to see the results of, results that "fly by cable" will have zero issues with:

You are at sea, or even at dockside and a yacht pulls near you and starts transmitting on HF/SSB with a 1kW transmitter. Do you still have engine control? Plastic boats, unlike cars, have about zero inherent radio shielding characteristics.
You are in a bad sea, and the helm is flooded with seawater. Are the controls functional?
You have a person in the engine room with a 6W VHF HH radio, communicating with the fuel filler topside. Does the black box at the engine, on the other end of the data path, still function? Or does it want to put the transmisison into reverse?
There are a multitude of other scenarios. Car manufacturers, and the multi-billion $ airframe designers have done this testing. Has Glendinning?

PS; forgot to point out that Toyota, arguably the best in the business for product quality, had early toothing pains with electronic throttle controls. Do you remember 10 years ago or so the operator reports of uncommanded throttle operation?
 
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PS; forgot to point out that Toyota, arguably the best in the business for product quality, had early toothing pains with electronic throttle controls. Do you remember 10 years ago or so the operator reports of uncommanded throttle operation?

Quite a few serious accidents and deaths. Took a while for them to admit they had a problem.
 
Mechanical controls are my choice. I once lost control of a 60' steel trawler because electronic controls developed a mind of their own. Fortunately all we did was hit a sailboat. Good mchanical controls are hard to beat.
 
I wonder what care/attention WWII four-engined bomber pilots took to synchronize the engines. Got to ask my B-17 copilot father.
 
Every new vehicle I've purchased I've dinged within days. It's like a christening!
 
I wonder what care/attention WWII four-engined bomber pilots took to synchronize the engines. Got to ask my B-17 copilot father.

I believe they were very focused on doing that as often they returned on fumes.
 
I believe they were very focused on doing that as often they returned on fumes.



I believe synchronizing engines is not what they were doing to save fuel. Instead they would be focused on leaning the engines. (Getting best fuel to air ratio for altitude) I also read somewhere that the engines had Glendinning synchronizers, even back then. But I am not so sure of my source on that.
 

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