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Old 06-29-2012, 09:22 AM   #41
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Please...a good diet can contain some meat...well maybe not if you have already gotten to a point of bad arterial condition and under a cadiologists care..if that...well I am sorry for you. But a small amount of good meat in your diet is far from a death sentence of even a problem for the average person who has eaten sensibly their whole life.

Any doctor who bans all meat needs to get a grip.

NOT carrying aspirin is just as bad as thinking meat is bad....it is easy and is better for you than all those other pain killers. Some of which are destroying your other organs if you can believe those reports.....

FOOD & DIET.

The subject of food for some is a very delicate one we live on a planet where there are many cultures with just as many eating traditions.

Each and every one has a choice a Wendy hamburger ; KFC or a bowl of rice or what ever takes your fancy, not every thing we eat is good for us and every one would agree that a balanced diet is the way to go, unfortunately there are those who go to sleep at night hungry and i feel for them.

Diet, plays a big part in our daily well being for some a pre existing medical condition may limit the consumption of sugar, i cannot eat bread because i am allergic to yeast.

The topic of food and diet is very complex and most certainly controls our well being we all have a choice to make, May be it all starts at the food store, we are now reading labels on packaged processed foods some of which is loaded with salt.

I tell my wife who is faced with the shopping dilemma of what to put in the shopping cart these days. My Dear " If you don't buy it you cant cook it ".

There are a multitude of things that can cause a heart attack certain foods is one of them stress and life style is another along with smoking and and most certainly be careful how you chose your parents.

When we build let us think that we build for ever and not for present delight alone.

Does all that make sense ?
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Old 06-29-2012, 09:38 AM   #42
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FOOD & DIET.

The subject of food for some is a very delicate one we live on a planet where there are many cultures with just as many eating traditions.

Each and every one has a choice a Wendy hamburger ; KFC or a bowl of rice or what ever takes your fancy, not every thing we eat is good for us and every one would agree that a balanced diet is the way to go, unfortunately there are those who go to sleep at night hungry and i feel for them.

Diet, plays a big part in our daily well being for some a pre existing medical condition may limit the consumption of sugar, i cannot eat bread because i am allergic to yeast.

The topic of food and diet is very complex and most certainly controls our well being we all have a choice to make, May be it all starts at the food store, we are now reading labels on packaged processed foods some of which is loaded with salt.

I tell my wife who is faced with the shopping dilemma of what to put in the shopping cart these days. My Dear " If you don't buy it you cant cook it ".

There are a multitude of things that can cause a heart attack certain foods is one of them stress and life style is another along with smoking and and most certainly be careful how you chose your parents.

When we build let us think that we build for ever and not for present delight alone.

Does all that make sense ?
Sure it makes sense...just not what I highlighted and explained the first time...
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Old 06-29-2012, 09:44 AM   #43
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Relax guys, no Dr would suggest a meat free diet is necessary - all things in moderation is the key - and that includes virtually all substances we take in.

Ok, as medic I'll take a diabolical liberty here and chime in with a few suggestions.
Keeping the weight as close to ideal as possible, not smoking, (at all, I'm afraid), and not drinking to excess, ( = only 2-3 drinks per day really), are key prevention measures. Having regular health checks also wise. Then, as much as is feasible, try to plan for a worst case scenario, so hopefully, rather like carrying an EPIRB but hoping you won't have to use it, you won't have to do it.
For example, husband or wife, skipper or first mate, (and in no particular order), has a heart attack - or some other disabling medical misadventure at sea - what to do?

Well if heart attack/angina is suspected, giving a couple of soluble aspirin immediately is never going to hurt, as it does thin the blood and help maintain blood flow to tissue if it is being starved of blood and lessen further clot extension, as long as they are not allergic to it - worth checking.

Then see to keeping them fairly flat and comfortable while you summon help, which also could justify setting off your EPIRB if you could not raise someone on the radio, and depending on the severity of the emergency and how far from help you are..? If possible, as when on land, getting the rescue people to you is often better and quicker than you trying to get to them.
Defibrillators are not really feasible to carry unless one has a condition which justifies the expense and being trained to use it. Most in that category would have an implanted automatic defibrillator anyway.

The next most important question is are you BOTH capable of getting the boat home of to safe haven, just in case help can't reach you? So often the SO, (2iC) is a wife or female partner who has never mastered that function, being content to be driven and just do a bit of line-handling at the dock. Maybe time to do some role-swapping drills..?

Finally, CPR. Good news here. (Well good insofar as there can be anything good about having to do it).
There has been a recent breakthrough in the approach to carrying out CPR which makes it a lot easier to do, especially if alone, and a lot less distasteful if to a stranger. It is now official that it is no longer considered necessary to go digging fingers into the mouth to try and drag out stuff, unless you know they had something lodged there, because we now know if good and adequate compressions of the chest are carried out, not only will any stuff be expelled, but more importantly, the compression of the chest, because it is springy, drags in and forces out enough air to be adequate without trying to blow air in. So, amazing as this may sound, here in Australia anyway, and I understand this is now international advice, mouth to mouth breathing is out. Is that a huge sighs of relief I hear? Yes, and I agree. There is no way I would ever place my mouth to that of a stranger and do that. Fortunately I always had an ambu-bag when I needed it, but I always suspected breathing air in was superfluous from my anaesthetic days, when the best way to check the tube was in the right place was to give a couple of quite gentle downward pushes on the subject's chest, and felt the puff of air out the end of the E-T tube before we connected it up to the ventilator.

How to give good compressions...? Well, to quote the intensive care specialist who took the refresher course I was at when we were advised of this latest development, "make good and firm downward compressions of about 5cm excursions, over the middle of the chest - not the stomach - between the breasts is best, and do it to the rhythm of the BG's song "Stayin' Alive".
Good and easy to remember. It's quite fast, (~ 2/second), so you can't do it that long. Everyone knows that song I think. If not Google it. Best of luck, and hope you never have to...I still do...
Prevention and avoidance is better... have that checkup...
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Old 06-29-2012, 09:50 AM   #44
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Heart attacks on boats

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Sure it makes sense...just not what I highlighted and explained the first time...
Psneeld

I write to thank you for your comments, it;s all good .
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Old 06-29-2012, 10:18 AM   #45
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You just got it straight from the doc, guys. So, aspirin is the first necessity in the kit. How simple, and how necessary. Now, let's see what other things should be in a "mandatory" first aid kit to be administered by amateurs.

Thanks, Peter. The explanation of CPR was great. What a coincidence that it should be done to the rhythm of "Staying Alive".

So, let's see if we can fill in the blanks of necessary items in the kit.

1. Aspirin
2.
3.
etc.
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Old 06-29-2012, 10:48 AM   #46
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Defibrillators are not really feasible to carry unless one has a condition which justifies the expense and being trained to use it. Most in that category would have an implanted automatic defibrillator anyway.
Thank you Peter for your informed and well thought out post and the answer to my question about defibrillators.
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Old 06-29-2012, 11:31 AM   #47
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[QUOTE=Peter B;92141]
Well if heart attack/angina is suspected, giving a couple of soluble aspirin immediately is never going to hurt, as it does thin the blood and help maintain blood flow to tissue if it is being starved of blood and lessen further clot extension, as long as they are not allergic to it - worth checking.

What can you give if one is allergic to aspirin?
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Old 06-29-2012, 01:00 PM   #48
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2 things about boats and medical emergencies...if you are on a boat you are already in the wrong place unless you have a doc, a defib unit and a large medical chest.

The second is..if you boat and are worried about medical emergencies...never be more than a few yards away from a dock with a good road that ambulances can roar down...or refer to my first rule.

I'm not saying that we all shouldn't be as up on first aid or beyond...but the reality is....EMT's and their equipment and a fast track to a hospital is your best chance of survival...any delay...like being on a cruising boat is a roll of the dice.

After 23 years of USCG and another 10 years of assistance towing MEDEVACS...it's just the facts...
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Old 06-29-2012, 03:04 PM   #49
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I'm not saying that we all shouldn't be as up on first aid or beyond...but the reality is....EMT's and their equipment and a fast track to a hospital is your best chance of survival...any delay...like being on a cruising boat is a roll of the dice.S

After 23 years of USCG and another 10 years of assistance towing MEDEVACS...it's just the facts...[/QUOTE]

I bow to your experience, and concur. However, I started this discussion because of exactly as you have stated, we may very well be on a cruising boat. There should be things that we can do to at least increase chances of survival. Not being EMTs with an almost portable hospital in the bag, we are left with few options, but I feel we should be aware of what they are.

There are stock kits available such as some from West Marine. Their Series 1000 kit states that it is for when emergency care can be reached in a 12 hour period. That should fit most of our situations. Would one of you professionals be so kind as to take a look, and give an opinion.

I think the point is that we need to be informed, and have some supplies on board.
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Old 06-29-2012, 03:29 PM   #50
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For several months now many E mails have been transmitted between my self Peter B in Australia and Donald Moon.

The topic of first aid on a boat became the issue and after an exhaustive search through the Forum Archives i could not find any reference to the topic being discussed. So here we are trying to make sense of most likely the most complicated issue to date .

We are indeed fortunate to have Peter B give of his valuable time to help and guide us with the more technical issues.

I have just received an E mail from Don Moon asking me to further the topic by introducing to you a first aid book i have several.

There are hundreds of Quick reference first aid books out there choosing the right book is not an easy task.

May i take this opportunity to refer you to the 2012 West Marine Catalogue Pages 188 to 190 inclusive, they also have an article on page 188 "Selecting a Boating medical kit".

You can purchase the book "A comprehensive guide to marine medicine #7753908 for $17.99 Written by Dr. Eric A. Weiss an Md and Dr. Michael Jacobs Md .

With respect to the first aid kits offered these were initially assembled by these two doctors and range in price from $29.99 to $699.00.

I might add there is nothing to stop you from improving on the kit , may I also recommend that you visit your local book store and purchase a Family Medical Encyclopedia.
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Old 06-29-2012, 04:08 PM   #51
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Hopefully I haven't given the wrong impression...I was mainly talking heart attacks...there is a lot you can do with basic first aid...

You really don't need much of a kit for first aid...especially with as many things that are carried on a cruising boat...it's much more important to undertsand the concepts than to have the kit and be stuck reading directions and wondering.

For cruising where you are many hours from advanced medical help...often having many prescription drugs such as the epi pen as mentioned before can be the lifesaver. You need to have a serious talk with your doc and fill up a kit based on some of the really good stuff or go to a doc who understands cruising.
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Old 06-29-2012, 04:16 PM   #52
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I think the point is that we need to be informed, and have some supplies on board.
Great topic and one that covers many areas other than boating alone. We enjoy back country exploring in both the mountains and high desert areas near to us. We have been thinking for some time about upgrading our basic medical knowledge and supplies. This thread has convinced us that sooner rather than later would be a prudent move.

We know that CPR classes are only a first step. Is there a nationally recognized organization that has a course to take you beyond that first step?
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Old 06-29-2012, 04:19 PM   #53
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Great topic and one that covers many areas other than boating alone. We enjoy back country exploring in both the mountains and high desert areas near to us. We have been thinking for some time about upgrading our basic medical knowledge and supplies. This thread has convinced us that sooner rather than later would be a prudent move.

We know that CPR classes are only a first step. Is there a nationally recognized organization that has a course to take you beyond that first step?
Red cross does first aid but my last 2 courses I wasn't impressed with the instruction....too much like a rubber stamp along with the CPR for corporate certs.

I got way more out of Boy Scouts and military survival schools.
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Old 06-29-2012, 04:49 PM   #54
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Here is one of the best and most used medical references we have used. We have the hard back edition.

"Ship's Medicine Chest and Medical Aid at Sea"
by the US Public Health Service

http://www.operationalmedicine.org/TextbookFiles/ShipsMedicineChest.htm

Here's the description from Amazon:

The Ship’s Medicine Chest and Medical Aid at Sea is published primarily for the information and guidance of the Master and other licensed and certified crew members who may be directly or indirectly responsible for the administration of medical treatment at sea on vessels which do not carry a physician. This book attempts to describe in nontechnical language, the diseases and medical emergencies most commonly encountered while at sea and the "first aid" and "follow-up" care required until the patient can be evaluated and treated by a physician.

It must be emphasized that the care and treatment of a patient at sea is much different than while ashore. The medications and treatments suggested in this book are based on the fact that a physician is not physically available and that such treatment must be carried out by intelligent seamen and ship’s officers who have received training in the delivery of health care. It is used on fishing vessels, by outdoorsmen, explorers, and backwoodsmen as a guide when professional medical care is not available.
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Old 06-29-2012, 04:52 PM   #55
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Red cross does first aid but my last 2 courses I wasn't impressed with the instruction....too much like a rubber stamp along with the CPR for corporate certs.

I got way more out of Boy Scouts and military survival schools.
Thank you for that. We'll allow our sons the privilege of military survival school and try the Red Cross. We will have a better chance of completing it than my sons upcoming SEER training.
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Old 06-29-2012, 05:02 PM   #56
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Thank you for that. We'll allow our sons the privilege of military survival school and try the Red Cross. We will have a better chance of completing it than my sons upcoming SEER training.
my point was that completeing it was easy..getting something out of it was a disappointment...good luck!
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Old 06-29-2012, 07:11 PM   #57
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I got way more out of Boy Scouts and military survival schools.
I will certainly second that. Being a Boy Scout and working with them as an adult, I can say that their first aid training is great.

We had a troop on the Appalachian Trail for ten days. The guys wanted to hike to the top of Mt. Laconte on the way home. About half way up crossing a rocky creek my foot slipped and was caught between two rocks in the creek bottom. Over I went on my ankle. The swelling started almost immediately. Our troop went to work immediately. We had an air splint in our kit. They applied it, then worked out a way to help me off the mountain. The doctor said that their assistance and the air splint prevented a compound fracture. I was mighty proud of those guys. They still mention it when I see one of them They are adults now.
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Old 06-30-2012, 12:00 AM   #58
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Peter B,
Thanks mate for your input.
Good sound , not over the top advice is always appreciated and taken notice of.
I must admit having my MD mate come on most of our Outer Reef fishing & spear fishing trips has been a real comforter and he also puts together a good first aid kit.

By the way are there any off the shelf first aid kits (for remote locations) that you would reccomend in Aus.
Cheers
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Old 06-30-2012, 09:05 AM   #59
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[QUOTE=Delia Rosa;92155]
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Well if heart attack/angina is suspected, giving a couple of soluble aspirin immediately is never going to hurt, as it does thin the blood and help maintain blood flow to tissue if it is being starved of blood and lessen further clot extension, as long as they are not allergic to it - worth checking.

What can you give if one is allergic to aspirin?
Sorry, but nothing else works you could or would have in your possession. Paramedics could give a clot dissolving drug by drip if there quick enough, but aspirin allergy is quite rare, fortunately. Being susceptible to gastric bleeding from it is not an allergy, and should not hold one back in this case, as that is only normally a risk in regular use, and the importance of it takes precedence in this case.
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Old 06-30-2012, 09:20 AM   #60
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Peter B,
Thanks mate for your input.
Good sound , not over the top advice is always appreciated and taken notice of.
I must admit having my MD mate come on most of our Outer Reef fishing & spear fishing trips has been a real comforter and he also puts together a good first aid kit.

By the way are there any off the shelf first aid kits (for remote locations) that you would reccomend in Aus.
Cheers
Benn
Yes, Hi Benn, and thanks for the comments. Don of Somers asked me to help out a bit and I was glad to oblige. It is quite important to make some preparation, but at the same time not let the fear of what might happen ruin the pleasure of what usually happens when one goes out - ie no medical dramas at all.
I am a bit inclined to go for the ready made-up first aid kit myself, rather than make up my own as well, and I have this one here from Bias, below. More than enough for the average boater. If one is trained to suture, then if traveling further afield I'd add in a suture pack and some local anaesthetic - like your doc friend had. But for the average crew that's not really on.First Aid Kit
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