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Old 06-19-2019, 04:47 PM   #21
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Weird. Go to Spira's website and you see a picture of Willy! (Nomad Willy) Hey Eric, you're famous!


http://www.spirainternational.com/hp_sanm.php
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Old 06-19-2019, 05:56 PM   #22
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Weird. Go to Spira's website and you see a picture of Willy! (Nomad Willy) Hey Eric, you're famous!


Spira International Inc - San Miguel Displacement Cruiser Wooden Boat Plans


It's been there for yars and yars.
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:35 PM   #23
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Why would Erics boat be on a Spira website?I'm assuming Spira website is selling his designs? Willards aren't Spira designs....
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:42 PM   #24
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Old 06-22-2019, 07:36 PM   #25
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Why would Erics boat be on a Spira website?I'm assuming Spira website is selling his designs? Willards aren't Spira designs....

No clue but yes, I have seen several sets of his plans along with the few sets that I have. They are his own design.
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Old 06-22-2019, 09:16 PM   #26
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I have no problem w it at all but he’s just using the Willard boat as a good example of a full full displacement hull. It is and she cruises at 6.15 knots w a hull speed of 7 knots. A real FD hull around 30’ will cruise about a knot below hull speed. The San Miguel Would cruise at 5.5 to 5.75 knots estimated. Since this hull is not even sniffing at SD you’ll be limited to that speed .. just about exactly. If you want to cruise at 7 knots you’ll need a longer hull or flatter lines or both. And I don’t think you’ll need 15hp. Willy takes 18hp to run at 6.15 knots and due to very much lighter weight San Miguel should cruise one knot under hull speed on about 8hp. A 14hp engine will be plenty of power.
Looks like a good boat Ben but a little more like a sailboat than a powerboat. She’ll hobby horse or/and pitch a lot w/o fuller ends. Kinda like a sailboat w no mast. Fuel consumption will be about a quart an hour though and adding weight will hardly change that.

Looks like Jeff thinks the Willard is a “SkipJack” ... not so and the SanMiguel will not go 9 knots.

Ben I’m on a boat building forum on FB. It’s called “Boat Building & Builders” and it’s on FB. Jeff is prominent there and some of the builds are interesting. A lot of the builders are from the mid-west and south w a very very wide range of experience and ability.
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Old 06-23-2019, 09:27 AM   #27
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Anything you put on the internet is free to everybody.
I have no problem w it at all but he’s just using the Willard boat as a good example of a full full displacement hull. It is and she cruises at 6.15 knots w a hull speed of 7 knots. A real FD hull around 30’ will cruise about a knot below hull speed. The San Miguel Would cruise at 5.5 to 5.75 knots estimated. Since this hull is not even sniffing at SD you’ll be limited to that speed .. just about exactly. If you want to cruise at 7 knots you’ll need a longer hull or flatter lines or both. And I don’t think you’ll need 15hp. Willy takes 18hp to run at 6.15 knots and due to very much lighter weight San Miguel should cruise one knot under hull speed on about 8hp. A 14hp engine will be plenty of power.
Looks like a good boat Ben but a little more like a sailboat than a powerboat. She’ll hobby horse or/and pitch a lot w/o fuller ends. Kinda like a sailboat w no mast. Fuel consumption will be about a quart an hour though and adding weight will hardly change that.

Looks like Jeff thinks the Willard is a “SkipJack” ... not so and the SanMiguel will not go 9 knots.

Ben I’m on a boat building forum on FB. It’s called “Boat Building & Builders” and it’s on FB. Jeff is prominent there and some of the builds are interesting. A lot of the builders are from the mid-west and south w a very very wide range of experience and ability.


Willy is a really nice boat. I've looked at a few Willys online. They were all in the PNW and out of my price range. They are not skipjacks. I'll post a photo of a skipjack below for others that may not know what they are. Skipjacks are pretty versatile boats. They can motor well and sail well. They have limited room and are not fast for the go-fast boaters.

I wondered about that 8 knot speed quoted on the landing page for San Miguel. The plans show a recommended 35hp for her. I was planning the Beta 38 and a large externally regulated 120A alternator. I know a 130A alt can consume up to 7hp from a gasoline engine when it's working hard. The 120 shouldn't be far behind but the diesel has torque on it's side.

Glad you mentioned pitching. My plan is to respace the frames two inches apart. That would push the length from 27' 2" to just under 29', if my calculations are correct, and flatten out the lower hull while giving a slightly longer waterline. I'm considering running a short mast in a tabernacle for a limp home sail and steadying sail. Similar to Buehler's(R.I.P.) Dhow sail plan he has for his boats.

I knew about the FB page but I left FB in 2014. I have avoided going back. It may be time to sign up again to get a little help and advice. I've built knock together boats between 8 and 16 feet for paddling and small outboards. This will be my first large boat build. I may have questions. I've done a good bit of boat repair both mechanical, structural, and cosmetic. It can be great fun and interesting.


On one of the forums, a guy had bilt a really nice small Skip with a cabin. He had the option of motoring or mounting the mast and sailing. I can't find that one but this is a really nice small sailing version.
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Old 06-23-2019, 09:55 AM   #28
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Ben have you considered the Spira Chubasto 27? Or Tad Roberts designs?

I suspect you’ll find the SanMiguel’s motion to unpleasant and the speed too slow. But I don’t really know what you want in a boat.
But I’ve looked through Jeff’s boats and see the drawings showing the boats aren’t very clear. For example look at the waterlines. Don’t look realistic in some cases. Some boats look heavy and some look light and should be much heavier.

The Chubasto isn’t as cute. She has plenty of rocker so will run in a full displacement mode but is fuller at the ends and will pound especially at higher speeds where she’ll be running on her midsection that is very flat. But she’ll run considerably faster than the SanMiguel. A bit bow high though. The 30’ Key West has no rocker at all so would be good only at higher speeds.

Ben are you sure you’ll be happy at well under 6 knots?
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Old 06-23-2019, 06:54 PM   #29
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Ben have you considered the Spira Chubasto 27? Or Tad Roberts designs?

I suspect you’ll find the SanMiguel’s motion to unpleasant and the speed too slow. But I don’t really know what you want in a boat.
But I’ve looked through Jeff’s boats and see the drawings showing the boats aren’t very clear. For example look at the waterlines. Don’t look realistic in some cases. Some boats look heavy and some look light and should be much heavier.

The Chubasto isn’t as cute. She has plenty of rocker so will run in a full displacement mode but is fuller at the ends and will pound especially at higher speeds where she’ll be running on her midsection that is very flat. But she’ll run considerably faster than the SanMiguel. A bit bow high though. The 30’ Key West has no rocker at all so would be good only at higher speeds.

Ben are you sure you’ll be happy at well under 6 knots?

I've looked at Chubasco. Many years ago, when I first learned about Spira's boats, it wasn't recommended to lengthen the cabin. In the pics, the engine house is right in the center of the boat and nearly blocking the cabin entrance. Without major modifications to the rear deck to lower the sole, extending the cabin aft would be difficult and needed for headroom. The other issue is the rocker. She carries her transom just above the water. Moving weight rearward could cause the transom to go under creating drag. Weight could be moved forward or ballast added.

Tad Roberts boats in the 27-30 foot range are around 10 feet or wider. His trailerable boats are 23 feet and smaller. I don't think I can go that small and live aboard. 27-30 is pushing it even for my minimalist lifestyle. I could probably make Wedge Point work with modifications but I really don't want to run an outboard engine. I would have to have a generator.

I'm not sure I'll be happy at 6kts. The ICW and a lot of places along the GL are speed restricted or no wake zones. It would be nice to have some speed in the PNW. There's a lot of long passages, I hear, through the area between WA and AK. I will be solo as well so no one for the night watch. I'll have to drop the hook.

The other options I was looking at was San Juan and Cane River. They are semi-displacement and both can take a 50-75 inboard diesel. Not much space in those under floor for tankage. I thought about building Sitka to 30ft. with the V entry bow and building a full keel. I could run a compact higher power turbo diesel in a V drive configuration. I could run displacement speeds and still have the kick to get up on plane. Building Sitka that way is stepping way outside the original design. She would be kind of like a Downeast type hull with a full keel and V entry bow. She would also be a good bit heavier. That may add stability and slow rolling and also help her track straight.
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Old 06-26-2019, 09:53 AM   #30
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Ben have you considered the Spira Chubasto 27? Or Tad Roberts designs?

I suspect you’ll find the SanMiguel’s motion to unpleasant and the speed too slow. But I don’t really know what you want in a boat.
But I’ve looked through Jeff’s boats and see the drawings showing the boats aren’t very clear. For example look at the waterlines. Don’t look realistic in some cases. Some boats look heavy and some look light and should be much heavier.

The Chubasto isn’t as cute. She has plenty of rocker so will run in a full displacement mode but is fuller at the ends and will pound especially at higher speeds where she’ll be running on her midsection that is very flat. But she’ll run considerably faster than the SanMiguel. A bit bow high though. The 30’ Key West has no rocker at all so would be good only at higher speeds.

Ben are you sure you’ll be happy at well under 6 knots?

I have my answers including the teeter-totter question answered. San Miguel is similar to a sailboat and will need to be loaded heavily to keep pitching down in rough water. I always knew I would load her heavy for my journeys and living aboard.
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Old 07-09-2019, 09:28 PM   #31
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I received my plans via electronic transfer last week. Today I had them printed in full size or at least large enough for making notes on.



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Old 07-16-2019, 09:09 AM   #32
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Hi Ben2go,

You got me interested in the SPIRO boats, so I had a look at the website. Wow! I'm seriously considering plans for the Hawaiian Sampans,,, just not sure which LOA yet.

Have you started your build yet, and if so, do have have a blog for it? (or will you just continue to post your progress here?) I would love to see that unfold. Good luck!
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Old 07-16-2019, 09:41 AM   #33
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Hi Ben2go,

You got me interested in the SPIRO boats, so I had a look at the website. Wow! I'm seriously considering plans for the Hawaiian Sampans,,, just not sure which LOA yet.

Have you started your build yet, and if so, do have have a blog for it? (or will you just continue to post your progress here?) I would love to see that unfold. Good luck!




My plan is to have a thread here and do some youtube videos along the way.



I'm hoping to start this fall, November-ish. I have a few other projects to get done before I can start the boat. If I can get them done before fall, I may start earlier.
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