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Old 11-06-2019, 01:21 PM   #21
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Boomerang, if there is a classic boat festival in your area I hope you are entering your boat in it.

As such that boat is likely not representative of other wood boats in terms of the need for planking repairs. That said, that guy is very conscientious and fixes everything as soon as it is noticable. He is also very experienced in all aspects of both wooden and fiberglass boat construction. Of course I am saying that because the guy in the video is me.

When some one here asks whether they should purchase a wooden boat or not, attracted by the cheap price, I link your video to my reply.
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Old 11-07-2019, 11:07 AM   #22
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As others have said glassing over a wood hull not designed to be glassed over is normally just to get a few more years from the hull. Any deck leaks will result in the wooden part of the hull rotting out from the inside. Furthermore, to properly glass a wooden hull you first have to repair all the wood to get rid of any rot. If done right, that step leaves you with a wooden hull in good shape that would likely last longer than the glassed over hull.
..............
Thank you for following up after the video. The bolded had me wondering as well. If fresh water leaks are rotting out the planks from inside I would not want those planks sealed in with a fibreglass skin preventing further repair.
Also, glassing over is made to sound as a cheap solution.
If a wood hull boat owner sees value above the planks (and too many require replacement) then why not remove all planks, lay on a skin of pre-made glass sheets for foundation and then layup a glass hull.
Insurance guru, would a replaced wood hull with glass be insurable?

P.S. while on the hard this summer a wood hull boat with copper skin came in for plank replacement. Within a day all that could be seen is the ribs, most needed to be replaced, and replaced it was with new planks.
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Old 11-07-2019, 12:08 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Soo-Valley View Post
Thank you for following up after the video. The bolded had me wondering as well. If fresh water leaks are rotting out the planks from inside I would not want those planks sealed in with a fibreglass skin preventing further repair.
Also, glassing over is made to sound as a cheap solution.
If a wood hull boat owner sees value above the planks (and too many require replacement) then why not remove
  • all planks, lay on a skin of pre-made glass sheets for foundation and then layup a glass hull.
    Insurance guru, would a replaced wood hull with glass be insurable?

    P.S. while on the hard this summer a wood hull boat with copper skin came in for plank replacement. Within a day all that could be seen is the ribs, most needed to be replaced, and replaced it was with new planks.
  • To me (wearing my underwriting hat) I see much pain for little reward.

    The proposal to replace planking with glass layers brings up a number of questions:
  • How much does this modify the naval architecture of the vessel (center of gravity, structural integrity, general seaworthiness, etc)
  • The condition and longevity of the keel timbers
  • How to keep the glass skin and keel timbers from shifting
  • Thickness of the glass skin and repairability

I don’t know of an insurer that would entertain this type of risk unless there was substantial professional documents on to include naval plans, work, and a survey.

And, there still would be good reason to not offer coverage.

Wood boats are proven- fix wood with wood.
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Old 11-07-2019, 01:11 PM   #24
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Wood boats are proven- fix wood with wood.

I agree, just wondered if a new skin not over wood made a difference to insurers, but I see your point that unless it was an architect re design why should insurers consider it. After seeing the restoration pictures from a GB 32 done in one year which included more than planks, it really does not make sense to glass over wood for pleasure craft anyway.
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Old 11-11-2019, 02:37 PM   #25
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There are plenty of classic yachts out there that have been fiberglassed up to the waterline. Many of them were glassed in the 1960s and they are still going fine. When I was young in the 60s I had an El Toro that was glassed and later a strip planked Whitehall boat that was glassed, as far as I know they are still sailing today. Glassing a hull works fine if it is done properly and you don't view it as a cure all for all problems. A friend of mine glassed over a 36' Carvel hull sistership to my boat it only added a couple hundred pounds of weight, one thing that happens is the wood drys out and you lose the weight of the moisture it has absorbed over the years.
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Old 11-11-2019, 02:44 PM   #26
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FRP sheathing older wooden hulls

Here are a few tips derived from my own experience in formulating and applying several tons of reinforced polymer coatings to both older and new wooden (and some other) hulls.

1. The major obstacles to a long-lasting job are a) failure to properly bond the sheathing to the wood substrate and b) cracking and eventual delamination due to movement in the wood substrate from changes in temperature or flexing.

2. Therefore, the type of planking in the wooden hull is an important consideration. For example, FRP sheathing a carvel planked hull without taking special measures is a formula for disaster. Too much movement in the wooden skin. You can, however, stabilize carvel planking by replacing the caulking with softwood splines set in an epoxy based adhesive. (Use heartwood only and avoid sapwood for the splines like the plague.) Or you can first sheath the carvel planks with a thin wood strakes laid diagonally, again in an epoxy-based adhesive. Double planked, double diagonal, and strip planked hulls are not as difficult as carvel to do well. Riveted lapstrake? Forget it.

3. Always us epoxy-based resin in preference to polyester or even vinyl ester. Epoxy forms chemical bonds with virtually all materials, unlike polyesters which bond well with themselves but not really well to other materials and poorly to moist or oily materials (which an older hull is likely to be). My personal preference is for an epoxy resin co-reacted (cured) with a polyamide such as Versamid 140. This produces a polymer that is relatively flexible with excellent abilities to bond to slightly moist or even slightly oily wood substrate. Mix one-to-one by volume, produces an approximately 60/40 mixture by weight. Depending on ambient temp, pot life will likely be about 30 minutes. Do not use mixed material that has stood around too long.

4. Always sand the hull exterior to clean wood. You could then use a vacuum bag to lower the ambient atmospheric pressure, which will literally boil out much of the residual moisture that's collected in the hull skin. Sand with coarse grit to open up the wood grain and to improve the mechanical bond of the cured polymer. When clean and dry, apply the sheathing in the form of fabric pre-wetted in a tray with the epoxy adhesive. Use stainless steel staples to hold the wet fabric in place. Squeegee out excess resin. You can remove the staples after the last layer of the sheathing takes an initial cure, but you could also simply overcoat with more epoxy resin. Always lay anepoxy layer over the previous layer within 24 hours to assure that maximum active chemical bonding takes place. After about a week at normal temperatures (77+ degrees), sand lightly and apply an epoxy bottom paint primer/barrier coat, then bottom paint.

5. Your best chance of success will be if you use a stretchier fabric, but these are often a bugger to sand. S-glass works, but comes in many different forms, so check with your local distributor for availability and recommendations. And understand that applying a sheathing is not the same as laminating a "second" hull on the outside of the first. In the case of a sheathing, you don't want to build up unnecessary thickness, you want maximum strength and resistance to delamination and cracking per unit thickness. And flexibility works in your favor to absorb differences in coefficients of expansion between the wood and the FRP covering. Remember, the sheathing is a protective, leak-resistant covering not intended to replace the structural properties of the wooden hull. If your wooden hull can't support the structural loads of being at sea, forget the entire project.


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Old 11-11-2019, 04:53 PM   #27
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Repair wood with wood...and maybe a lot of epoxy. If you plan on having a boat for 40 or more years then wood is probably less maintenance as long as you keep up with it. Fiberglass does absorb water and if the boat is used, flexed etc it will eventually (at best) need to be ground down and gel coat re-applied.

I have a wood sailboat and a fiberglass trawler and there are big pros to both. The sailboat is from 1963, trawler 1984.

The sailboat is strip planked and I did have to put in a lot of splines (routed out 1/4 in between strips) and epoxied in new wood. I did it in the summer wearing mostly just shorts. For two weeks every morning I would use a hand plane to fair out the splines I epoxied in the afternoon before. Then fill the holes left from the guide. Mid-day I replaced keel bolts (which were mostly fine), some more keel work and had the prop balanced. In the afternoon I routed out for new splines and epoxied them in. Fairing the epoxy early when it was only around 70% cured was pretty easy - a nightmare when I was hungover and didn't start till later in the day.

The funny part though was a guy a few boats down whose hull was tarped off. He was grinding for days on the gel coat. He came out one afternoon, dressed like an astronaut, covered in dust and looking like cancer waiting to happen. He said I was brave having a wooden boat.
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Old 11-11-2019, 05:00 PM   #28
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This is passionate about not fiberglassing over wooden boats--particularly vintage ones! I can't imagine the cost of removing all that fiberglass!


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Old 11-11-2019, 05:10 PM   #29
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For all who are proponents of glassing over a wood hull (not of original construction)- do you have such a vessel insured, and if so, by whom?
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Old 11-11-2019, 05:21 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Andiamo2018 View Post
.

The sailboat is strip planked and I did have to put in a lot of splines (routed out 1/4 in between strips) and epoxied in new wood..
I would suggest you had a carvel planked boat.

Strip planked is a construction method using thin, light timber core like western red cedar.
Both sides are then glassed in a stitched fabric and epoxy resin making a lightweight composite sandwich
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