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Old 01-08-2013, 06:53 PM   #21
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I doubt they increase at all. To me it sends the message that there WAS a problem and its been repaired (or at least glassed over).

I much prefer the teak decking myself. And while I can't attest to the quality of the ply in my CHB, I do know it is not balsa as previously stated. (at least on the decks and in the areas I've seen first hand). Mine is all ply on all horizontal surfaces.
In EVERY case I looked at a teak removed/fiberglass repaired deck it was advertised AND sold at a higher price.

While people may like teak decks (I do too)...they realize the upkeep and are willing to pay a premium for someone who has removed them and repaired the decks correctly....just having pretty teak decks doesn't mean they aren't leaking into the core like a seive.

Only water staining below tells the tail whether they have been dry the whole time...even them paint covers that sin.

Anyway...my decks were saturated but being made of teak...they were free of rot...just separating from the skins due to freezing once I brough her north.
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:10 AM   #22
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"All mfg have used coring and will continue to do so for any number of reasons. How that coring is maintained is the issue."

A foam core boat , or a balsa deck is an engineered feature , done with the assistance of a NA .

The top and bottom layers and the core make a structure like an I beam.

Simply slathering GRP over plywood and claiming it as "composite" as done on many boats is a joke structurally.

It was done because pilot houses or decks take a great skill to create a mold that will look good.

The eye picks up slight unfairness , although it would cause no structural problem.

BEWARE , when discussing "composite " construction , some folks play very loose with language.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:03 AM   #23
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Don't fear the Trawler. Fear the owners that don't maintain them.

Better quality boats start out with a leg up and are often owned by more knowledgeable owners with deeper pockets who understand the true costs of boat ownership.
Cheaper brands start out built to a price and have to make do with whomever takes them home. Maintenance is the key to their long term survival and resale value.
I agree, fear the owners who don't maintain. We've owned Bayliners and Carvers over the years (and those boats can be a nightmare if not maintained, too) but we really like the 38 Marine Trader that we bought earlier this year. We were concerned about teak decks and fortunately found one without them. We did have to refinish the teak rails, which frankly we like--gives them character. For lower maintenance, a Mainship would be a good choice. We looked at a number of 350,390 and 40's.

Good luck in your search.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:58 AM   #24
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Ditto BruceK's commnts re: teak decks. In searching for my boat I saw lots of "leaky-teak's" and passed on them all. When I saw the high qualty job done in replacing our boat's original teak decks with fiberglass, I was 90% sold. Ditto also prevous comments re: attention to detail. If you do so, you can safely pick up a solid, well found trawler (even from Taiwan)for a good price. Best of luck!
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:58 AM   #25
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I'm good with that decision.

My boat model a 2001 4788 Bayliner has no teak decks, a foam core in the decks making it impervious to rot, no noted fuel tank issues, no history of blisters.

There are issues with it, like any other boat, with the most often reported issue being a leaky rain gutter that is sometimes challenging to find.

I've taken allot of good natured ribbing about my Bayliners over the years, but in all seriousness I'd be happy to compare construction materials, and techniques with any fiberglass boat out there. When you make side by side comparisons the late model Bayliner large motoryachts fare exceptionally well amongst Coastal Cruisers.

We need to remember that like many boat makers Bayliner went through a learning process of how to build a good large boat. The 45' series were the starting point, and they like any company improved as they went along. My 4788 being a 2001 was near the end of the production run, meaning that it had the bugs worked out through the previous thousand boats manufactured.

So, as advice to the OP, choose things that you are afraid of, and don't buy a boat with those things. Secondly and very important is to choose a boat with a long production run history and pick one near the end of that production run.
Quality on BL have improved a lot since Brunswick took over manufacturing side by side with Sea Rays. Unfortunately, mid-range BLs are now going to be manufactured in Brazil and only sold in non-U.S. markets.
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:07 PM   #26
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From my experience Bayliner "yachts" were always made well (long before the takeover) compared to the boat division...but the same is true for Sea Rays too. In fact for quite a few years some of the bigger Sea Rays had numerous issues that fortunately the company stood behind many of them.

They downgrade some items, and make some things hard to get to but the Motor Yachts are pretty good overall...as good as many others.

I was a captain/yard tech for a dealership that handled Sea Rays and Bayliners until they became Meridians so I knew them pretty well for a few years back about 10 years ago.
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:27 PM   #27
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Everything I saw on them screamed "price point" and "built as cheaply as possible".............. I just had to say that the 4588 example we saw was in pretty poor condition and exposed lots of flaws that may not always reveal themselves in a well-maintained boat, however, are still there.
And, yet, you drive a 35 Senator and say that you were just kidding? (I'm just kidding! )
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:43 PM   #28
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I'm good with that decision.

My boat model a 2001 4788 Bayliner has no teak decks, a foam core in the decks making it impervious to rot, no noted fuel tank issues, no history of blisters..
If memory serves me, I believe the 4588 was the first cruising boat ever to be completely designed by computer. (CAD) (I could be wrong and stand to be corrected. )
Again, as a coastal cruiser and a live aboard, they're awfully hard to beat. No up and down traffic pattern, nice staterooms and office (if you decide to go that way) and a covered cockpit (a little small but adequate) a very nice pilot house, door to the side deck, etc. Except for the cramped ER (and it's cramped!) if I were looking for a coastal cruiser, capable of living aboard, I would definitely have the 45 & 47 Bayliner on my short list.
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:43 PM   #29
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Wow a lot of good information and much very encouraging. I think Main ship, I belive 35's, were one of the possibilities. Problem was just about everyone I looked at had a soft deck somewhere. There must be something on these boats that typically leaaks. I also think they are cored with balsa. I would prefer plywood as opposed to balsa or foam. I did find one main ship with redone decks but the bilge housing the perkins engine had a lot of oil in it. Oil leak is my guess. I am told once they start to leak it is not going to stop without complete rebuild. Just about all of the Tiawan trawlers had leaking windows and consequently my quess a rotted house. I am going to look for a trawler. I will make a list of the possible problems and check as suggested.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:15 PM   #30
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I know I want a different boat. Presently we have a 28 ft Rinker express cruiser. Our first boat. I have learned that speed, hugh gas bills, noise, and an uncomfortable ride in 3 ft chop, and two gas engines, is not what I want. I do want something that can cruise comfortably at 7 to 8 knots in seas of three to four ft chop, has a good walk around deck, a single engine diesel that burns about 2 GPH at cruise with minimal noise. To me this sounds like a trawler. Oh! did I mention I do not want to owe my life to a boat. With this in mind I see the Tiawan made boats as a possibility filling the gas consumption and noise issues. But, I am fearful of the historic poor quality control when these boats were produced. I see windows that leak, poor gas tank design, soft decks, teak deck requireing replacement and constant maintenance. Yet I see many of the trawler form people with these style boats. Will they handle chop (I am located in Buzzards Bay Mass.)? How do you keep the house from rotting, Teak decks??? I would prefer no teak in the deck. Any suggestions would be helpful.
look at older US made boats with a perkins of ford lehman. I was told to avoid the chrysler Diesels
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:27 PM   #31
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Wow a lot of good information and much very encouraging. I think Main ship, I belive 35's, were one of the possibilities. Problem was just about everyone I looked at had a soft deck somewhere. There must be something on these boats that typically leaaks. I also think they are cored with balsa. I would prefer plywood as opposed to balsa or foam. I did find one main ship with redone decks but the bilge housing the perkins engine had a lot of oil in it. Oil leak is my guess. I am told once they start to leak it is not going to stop without complete rebuild. Just about all of the Tiawan trawlers had leaking windows and consequently my quess a rotted house. I am going to look for a trawler. I will make a list of the possible problems and check as suggested.
Just because they leaked...it may or may not be a problem...even saturated teak lasts a very long time and retains it's strength...it's when it delaminates from the glass you have a problem...but one that's still easy to fix (well sorta easy )

Total rebuild? Who told you that????
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:45 PM   #32
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Just because they leaked...it may or may not be a problem...even saturated teak lasts a very long time and retains it's strength...it's when it delaminates from the glass you have a problem...but one that's still easy to fix (well sorta easy )

Total rebuild? Who told you that????
question, does teak ever rot unless its sealed from contact with air?
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:02 PM   #33
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question, does teak ever rot unless its sealed from contact with air?
It may...I'm not a wood guy...all I know is my teak..both solid and plywood even though saturated remained strong enough to encapsulate after it was dried out...while some parts of my boat needed major surgery...much was salvageable because the teak was OK once dried out.

I've heard of teak logs being in the water for a very long time (100's of years) with little or no deterioration.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:13 PM   #34
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It may...I'm not a wood guy...all I know is my teak..both solid and plywood even though saturated remained strong enough to encapsulate after it was dried out...while some parts of my boat needed major surgery...much was salvageable because the teak was OK once dried out.

I've heard of teak logs being in the water for a very long time (100's of years) with little or no deterioration.
your earlier comment made me realize that in all the years of messing with boats i had never seen rotten teak so i asked the question. I like teak decks because of the way they grip your feet but i hate the work required to keep them looking good. I'm going to look at a california made defever 40 tomorrow that never had teak decks. Boat was made in Santa Ana ca.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:18 PM   #35
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question, does teak ever rot unless its sealed from contact with air?
Teak is a very rot resistant wood thanks to the oil content, as you know. The clipper ship Cutty Sark is iron-framed with teak planks and until it caught fire and burned a few years ago, most of the planking on its hull was original. So that's what, a couple hundred years old? Exposed to air and rained on (it IS London, you know)

Encasing wood so air cannot reach it does not result in rot as long as the wood was dry when you encased it. We have various pieces of external trim on our boat that we completely finished all round with many coats of Bristol some ten years ago or more. Bristol is a very tough coating and does not "breathe," but wood encased in it is in the same shape today as it was when we finished it.

Wood is dead by the time it gets put on a boat (usually). It does not need to breathe. Where this notion comes from is that if there is any way that piece of wood can get wet or absorb moisture, the moisture needs to evaporate out of of the wood or rot will begin. So in that sense, wood that gets wet needs to "breathe" simply so the moisture that gets into it can get out.

But if the wood is going to stay dry, it doesn't need to breathe anything.

So say all the wood experts we've talked to or read over the years.

Once a teak deck is in good condition, which primarily means the seam sealant is all intact and adhering and the deck plugs are all in, a teak deck takes no more maintenance than a fiberglass deck as I've described recently in another thread.

If the deck is not in good condition it can take a fair amount of time, effort, money or all three to put it in good condition. But once it's there, it's no more trouble than anything else.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:52 AM   #36
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I started seriously looking about this time last year. I read everything I could find on this forum and others and talked to any broker that would answer the phone. I think the best advice is to actually look at a bunch of boats. Even boats that you know you will not buy. Getting on the boat, smelling it, seeing what is good and back, will pay dividends when it is the boat you want to buy. There is another thread about Yachtworld photos going. I took the opportunity to look at two boats very close to eachother geographically. One had great pictures and a much lower price, in person it was a piece of crap. The other had only a few photos, not much in the way of a description, and was not what I thought we wanted in a trawler....in the end we bought it:-) We learned with the crap boat that pictures can be very misleading...and usually don't show the leaking diesel tank. The second boat only suffered from a poor advertisement. It has covered side decks, this keeps the windows dry in all but driving rain, and none of the leak! It has twin Ford Lehman 120's that will run forever, are easy for a novice to work on, and sip fuel. Buying a boat is a give and take, we sacrificed updated electronics, two comfortable helm seats, and speed for something that we could afford to maintain, run, enjoy, and upgrade as time goes on. Oh yeah, this is our first boat and is a 41' PT41 Cheer Men Europa style trawler. The other thing I learned was that I didn't want to buy a 34 footer and want a bigger boat in a few years....though I really like some 50 footers I see now.....:-)
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:40 PM   #37
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Teak decks can (won't always, but can) result in some high maintenance and repair bills. Check these few paragraphs from BoatUS, describing the construction and some of the maintenance issues of the Grand Banks 42:

"Originally the GB42's were built of wood utilizing traditional carvel planking and sawn frame construction techniques. Beginning with hull #353 in 1973, the hulls of the GB42 have been built with hand-laid fiberglass with an integral, full-length keel that protects underwater running gear. The hull is supported by a system of fiberglass stringers embedded with dense, closed cell foam. The construction is not high tech but is strong and well done.


Even though Grand Banks has built their boats of fiberglass for more than 27 years, to this day, they retain the molded-in planking lines reminiscent of their wood heritage. Another signature of Grand Banks, the teak planked transom, adds to the classic wooden boat appearance of the GB42.


It is not uncommon for older, fiberglass GB42s to suffer some degree of osmotic blistering if they have not been previously protected with a moisture barrier coat. Boats that spend a significant amount of time in warmer, tropical waters seem to suffer more than those that spend most of their time in colder water. The hull thickness of the GB42 is substantial and I have never seen any blistering condition that I would consider to have structurally weakened the hull to the point that it was unsafe for normal service. However, the condition can significantly effect a boat's salability and value. Repair of a blistered hull is very expensive, commonly costing between $10,000 and $15,000 but may be a worthwhile investment to protect the boat's value and long term structural integrity.


Decks of the GB42 are composite constructed with fiberglass over a plywood core with a teak overlay. The teak deck is fastened with screws and is a potential source of serious problems and considerable maintenance expense as these vessels age. Deck fastenings and bedding compounds loosen over time and water eventually migrates into and damages the plywood deck core. Fasteners and seams must be maintained at the first sign of wear or aging. If left unattended until an extensive repair or replacement is necessary, the cost of repair can easily top $25,000."
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