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Old 05-30-2016, 12:08 PM   #61
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Thank you Wallace.

I was wondering if it would be wise to make two fender boards for pilings dock? Or it is not necessary?

This is very encouraging for the Admiral as I am still reading your web page on the Erie canal this morning:

Cruising New York State Canal System, Erie, Cayuga, Seneca

We will keep and eye out for you. Kindest regards, Normand
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Old 05-30-2016, 03:27 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by REAL MOUNTIE View Post
Thank you Wallace.

I was wondering if it would be wise to make two fender boards for pilings dock? Or it is not necessary?

This is very encouraging for the Admiral as I am still reading your web page on the Erie canal this morning:

Cruising New York State Canal System, Erie, Cayuga, Seneca

We will keep and eye out for you. Kindest regards, Normand
Normand : I have found fender boards to be unnecessary and more trouble than they are worth. I buy laundry bags at Dollarama and put them over my fenders then dispose of them when they get too slimy.
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Old 05-30-2016, 08:36 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by REAL MOUNTIE View Post
I merely quoted a BoatUS Magazine: Those Erie Canal Moments | October - November 2012.

As stated by two contributors, the description in the article may not resemble the reality in New-York State and I will find out during our trip this season.

At the same time, would it be fair and reasonable to state that I did not write the article and state the description in the article written by the authors Carol & John Lucas does not resemble reality in NY?

http://www.fairportoced.org/uploads/...nalMoments.pdf
Sorry if I gave the wrong impression -no negative at all pointed to you - I realize the article was written by others - I only wanted others to be aware that the article did not depict locking in NY and have no idea where their title came from.

FYI - If you are headed to NY Canals I also have some cruising notes on our boat website linked below.
One comment is that we find fender adjusters helpful locking as there are some locks with very little free wall when you are the top and you nearly have to float your fenders to get adequate protection while you want them higher to protect gunwales when the lock is down / coming up.

We made the trip from NY Finger Lakes to Lake Champlain last season.
If you get to the Seneca Lake give a shout - we welcome fellow TFers and fellow cruisers.

Safe cruising
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Old 05-30-2016, 09:19 PM   #64
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Reading all the comments makes me bring up another aspect.
Not every time will you have a 'recipient' to catch your lines. This points out the difference in how lines are 'thrown'.

There are two parts to using throwing lines.

The first part is when you have to 'reach out' to the dock to get a line ashore, on the dock, or to another boat (or person). This is learned most importantly by practice. Aiming a line where you 'want it' to go is learned only through practice.

The mentioned monkey fist increases range, but immobilizes the ability of the end of the line to 'miraculously' find it's way onto, around or over a cleat, bit, bollard or post on a dock.
Weight on the end of an eye actually closes the eye as its' thrown. (Thus removing the ability of the eye to catch an object)

As Wayfarer mentioned; the eyes of a true 'throwing line' have to be quite large to fit over dockside fixtures.

The second part of line throwing is learning the art of throwing an eye on a dock cleat, a bitt or a post.

One of the differences between commercial and yachting use is that yachts generally make the line fast onboard, and toss the bitter end to the dock hoping someone ashore will make the line fast (and the calamity ensues) as lines come tight and the boat springs into the dock uncontrolled.

The way commercial vessels use lines is to get the line made fast to the shore and the line is tended onboard.

This brings up the method of how to get a line onto a fixture on the dock. The typical yacht docklines are pitifully small eyed. Every dockline I have seen that is sold in yacht stores is made about with about a 12" eye. This is way too small to be useful to throw onto anything ashore. On yachts, a 24, or 36" eye is necessary to use the throw a line over a shoreside fixture. The practice is what is needed to make it happen.

There is an alternative to being able to throw an eye on a bitt ashore, it is to throw a bight of line over a bitt. It is formidable to learn, but actually easier to accomplish with practice. Here is a video From Youtube to show the concept.

Without going too far into detail, leaving one eye on the boats cleat, tossing a multiple loop of line over a dock fastening leaves you with the bitter end in your hand to pull up the slack and make fast as needed. It gives you a larger loop tossed to increase the chance of getting a ringer to use.


And NO. The idea of putting the bitter end under your foot is certain to make you repeat this a couple times until you actually make it fast prior to throwing!!

Unlike the previously posted video, this bight method uses both hands to toss equal parts of line (thus extending the reach) out and over the dock to get a first line.
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Old 05-30-2016, 09:28 PM   #65
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...

The way commercial vessels use lines is to get the line made fast to the shore and the line is tended onboard.
...
That's the exact opposite I've observed in north, central and south America as well as Europe, leastwise with ocean-going ships. Are you speaking of local ferries?

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Old 05-30-2016, 09:32 PM   #66
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That's the exact opposite I've observed in north, central and south America as well as Europe, leastwise with ocean-going ships. Are you speaking of local ferries?
Actually I think he is correct....ship throws a heaving line connected to main dock lines, the shore hauls in the heaving line and then the eye of the ships line and drops a it over a bollard or cleat, the ship then hauls in on the line, manually or power.
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Old 05-30-2016, 09:40 PM   #67
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You're confusing me. Have always seen lines sourcing from the ships.
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Old 05-30-2016, 09:47 PM   #68
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If your pic is the thought, carefully look at the lines. Where are they made fast? on the dock, or on the boat. The boat has the working end.

Trip ferries are not really good places to look for examples of seamanship. They use 'leaving lines', and just grab the end as they come into the slip. It is a different form of seamanship. I know several boats who have dock lines made up specifically to length with eyes on each end because they dock there each and every day. This is neither practical or seaman like to be used to when docking at strange docks.

I think about it like this: If I HAVE to leave a dock (because of some peril) is it easier to leave with the lines made fast on the boat or on the dock? Just try to slip a line made fast on the dock with an eye on your cleat. Unless there is slack in the line you aren't getting a line off a cleat. Did you put the line through the middle of the cleat?


After re reading your comment, It is apparant you are in agreement with my statement. However, the niceties are amiss.

To ask it another way: How many "Trawler Forum" Members when docking give the dock (at a marina) the eye or the bitter end?
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Old 05-30-2016, 09:53 PM   #69
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Cappy, how many transient boats/ships make use of shore-based lines? That is totally opposite of my observations, although I've heard (never observed) some boat owners having permanent-to-the-dock lines.
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Old 05-30-2016, 09:57 PM   #70
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Cappy, how many transient boats/ships make use of shore-based lines? That is totally opposite of my observations, although I've heard (never observed) some boat owners having permanent-to-the-dock lines.
Pretty much everyone in our marina has permanent dock lines.

My experience is the same as Cappy's on ships. Bitter end is always on the vessel. Eye is over bollard. Mainly because one has winches and capstans on deck to take strain.

Some ships even have self-tensioning winches which maintain proper line tension.
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Old 05-30-2016, 10:10 PM   #71
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Unless My experience is totally miscombobulated, when an average yacht approaches the (marina, fuel dock or dock and dine) Dock you don't have your lines on the boat attached to the cleats, and toss the lines to the dock? Isn't this what the thread was about?

On Yachts I have docked from Newport RI to Portmouth NH and had multiple 'dock hands' inform me when coming alongside: "I want the END of the line, you put the eye on your cleat" Meaning (as intimated from previous comments) that the dock dick is going to make the line fast, and you will like it that way. I have had trouble adjusting to this interpretation of 'seamanship' in my yacht days.

This seems to be a similar comment from others on this thread about 'uncontrolled landings' etc.

I make sure that I am in control of my landings, much to the chagrin of the usual dock tender. Getting my first line fixed ashore makes this happen much more controllably than when 'they' are in control of a line that is looped on my cleat. If I want a line 'gone' if all goes to sheit, a loop of line I can much easier come back for it than try to figure out how to repair the topside damage.
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Old 06-01-2016, 06:46 AM   #72
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"I was wondering if it would be wise to make two fender boards for pilings dock? Or it is not necessary?"

For any cruising a pair fender boards make sense.

They should have metal half round on the side that will see the piling and fitted rubber stand offs that are held in place by the line.

Set fender boards up boards can be inserted rapidly as needed , and the rubber stand offs will hold 2 or 3 large fenders in place for more distance and a smoother ride in an open area or where the brain dead blast by.
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Old 06-09-2016, 12:45 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al View Post
Surprised at the extent of the anti-throwing post. When single handing and without all the fancy bow/stern thrusters or twin screw, there are many occasions that line throwing to a soul on the dock serves to control conditions and potential damage from results of wind or unsuspected tidal action. Both of which we have all had moments to experience.
I have posted my solution to this line throwing issue which serves as my 'Thruster' on other forum subjects. Matter of fact, used this method and instrument today entering the Wrangell Harbor in a flood tide condition.

Folding Grappling Hook Ninja Climbing 33 ft Nylon Rope | eBay

I keep this on the fly bridge in a sizable bucket with drain holes near my steering station from which I toss the to the dock and pull back till the unit hooks the bull rail. I know, not all docks have bull rails, I am fortunate living where common sense solutions to marine floats/docks still exist.

Al-Ketchikan
I think the idea is appropriate when the situation demands immediate action...

EZ Docker 6″x6″ hook will attach to almost any bollard, bullrail, or dock cleat. Even throw the hook over a dock and hook it on the opposite side, at times where there is no bollard or dock cleat. Hook is perfect for commercial fishing boats where bollards on docks are 6”.

Product EZ Docker Throwable Line- For Sale- AlumaFab,Inc.
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Old 06-20-2016, 10:19 AM   #74
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Al-Ketchikan recommended solution as it could be needed in situations

Originally Posted by Al View Post:

Surprised at the extent of the anti-throwing post. When single handing and without all the fancy bow/stern thrusters or twin screw, there are many occasions that line throwing to a soul on the dock serves to control conditions and potential damage from results of wind or unsuspected tidal action. Both of which we have all had moments to experience.
I have posted my solution to this line throwing issue which serves as my 'Thruster' on other forum subjects. Matter of fact, used this method and instrument today entering the Wrangell Harbor in a flood tide condition.

Folding Grappling Hook Ninja Climbing 33 ft Nylon Rope | eBay

I keep this on the fly bridge in a sizable bucket with drain holes near my steering station from which I toss the to the dock and pull back till the unit hooks the bull rail. I know, not all docks have bull rails, I am fortunate living where common sense solutions to marine floats/docks still exist.

Al-Ketchikan"

I really want to thank Al for his comments and suggestion on this topic.

I checked particularly those two:

https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.h...&f=90&t=546705

New Dutch Military Surplus Grappling Hook - 611215, Hand Tools at Sportsman's Guide

Then I decided to make a temporary one ...
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Old 06-20-2016, 01:20 PM   #75
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For many years it was mostly my Daughter and I.
If we had guests onboard we actually asked them to sit and relax and let us dock.
She usually grabbed both the bow and stern lines and jumps off and holds them. I shut off and jump down to and she ties the stern i tie the bow.
She can throw and catch good as well.
As can i.
So I have also thrown lines to her many times....but will not throw to others.
Lots of people can't catch well.
She was always athletic and fast reflexes though.
Not a fat kid who played video games.
Even still at 22 years old she runs daily and does martial arts 3 days a week. Plays baseball all summer and floor hockey in winter if not busy working or traveling.
She is also a great helicopter pilot and that requires extreme coordination.
My gf is a great lady, but her athletic abilities are nil....so i have her mostly sit and relax as i dock better on my own.
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Old 06-20-2016, 01:36 PM   #76
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Hello Hurrying Nowhere,

Thank you for your comments.

You must be very proud of your daughter. She is definitely gem.

Fathers are proof that not all superheroes wear tights and capes.

For many of us, our favorite role models don’t need magical powers to show us what courage, integrity and focus look like.

Whether you were her first coach, willing chauffeur, toughest critic, biggest fan, or all the above, odds are good that you helped her build the confidence to keep setting the bar high in sports activities, skills in piloting and life.

Congratulations!

Kindest regards, Normand
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