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Old 04-22-2014, 01:15 PM   #21
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BandB MY reference to pod drives and the Fathom and trawlers was more tongue in cheek than reality. I really have no idea why Fathom folded it may not even relate to the design. I was on the boat at one of the local shows and it was nice but not my style. In a forty foot flat water inland cruiser category the pilgrim 40 was my boat for several years more my style. I also met a couple who were cruising a new Fathom in the Northwest and were very happy with it. Here in the NW there is a lot of competition in the small and medium sized market Nordic Tug -American tug, and Grand Banks as starters and these boats do a hell of a marketing job.
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Old 04-22-2014, 01:24 PM   #22
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So many boats

So little time
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Old 04-22-2014, 02:40 PM   #23
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BandB MY reference to pod drives and the Fathom and trawlers was more tongue in cheek than reality. I really have no idea why Fathom folded it may not even relate to the design. I was on the boat at one of the local shows and it was nice but not my style. In a forty foot flat water inland cruiser category the pilgrim 40 was my boat for several years more my style. I also met a couple who were cruising a new Fathom in the Northwest and were very happy with it. Here in the NW there is a lot of competition in the small and medium sized market Nordic Tug -American tug, and Grand Banks as starters and these boats do a hell of a marketing job.
That's the thing is that there are so many good choices and we look at a boat and say, "Interesting, but not for us." You want insight into the marketing mind, I remember when I was with a manufacturer (far far different product from boats) and some of the merchandisers developed this licensed product line. They took it before a focus group and might have been the worst response I've ever seen. They wanted to argue as to why the group was wrong. But it really didn't matter. They didn't like it. They wouldn't buy it. Did not want it in their home.

You're right about the existing good builders and if someone else wants to build a brand and market then they have to show why one should come to them. And it has to attract a potential buyer almost instantly. If we as humans don't want to see more based on the first 30 seconds, we're not likely to change.
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Old 05-02-2014, 01:43 PM   #24
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Again, NT39 and AT365 don't have full walk-around side decks. It becomes a trade off to gain interior room. I would also venture to say that while underway (or at anchor or docked) NO One uses those full walkarounds. OTOH, our Fathom 40 has well recessed walk-arounds from the pilothouse forward. Our dog loves to be outside while underway and it is very safe for her here.
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Old 05-02-2014, 01:54 PM   #25
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Again, NT39 and AT365 don't have full walk-around side decks. It becomes a trade off to gain interior room. I would also venture to say that while underway (or at anchor or docked) NO One uses those full walkarounds. OTOH, our Fathom 40 has well recessed walk-arounds from the pilothouse forward. Our dog loves to be outside while underway and it is very safe for her here.
Just a matter of preference and compromise. Glad you're happy with yours.
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Old 05-02-2014, 03:37 PM   #26
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I would also venture to say that while underway (or at anchor or docked) NO One uses those full walkarounds.
They are only useful if you have them on either one (asymmetrical) or two (symmetrical) sides. There are many of us out there who have side deck access high on the "gotta have" list- in the PNW covered at that.
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Old 05-02-2014, 09:03 PM   #27
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I would also venture to say that while underway (or at anchor or docked) NO One uses those full walkarounds.

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Then I will venture to say you are simply wrong. You may be correct where you live but where I am a good side deck is a PLUS. It doesn't have to be a stroll around but a decent side deck even with needing to use a grab rail is for me a minimum. I see lot of boats every year with full walkarounds and people use them.
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Old 05-02-2014, 09:37 PM   #28
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I would also venture to say that while underway (or at anchor or docked) NO One uses those full walkarounds.

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Then I will venture to say you are simply wrong. You may be correct where you live but where I am a good side deck is a PLUS. It doesn't have to be a stroll around but a decent side deck even with needing to use a grab rail is for me a minimum. I see lot of boats every year with full walkarounds and people use them.
I'd say there are two different levels of use for us. First, there is the use that is truly advantageous and that has a definite practical benefit and that is the freedom to move when docking and locking. I think we would miss it in both cases, perhaps between the two even more when locking. Now some don't go through that many locks.

The second is that which we've gotten use to and would feel like we were giving something up even thought it's not necessary from a practical standpoint. We like to walk around. We like to go from cockpit to bow and back. There's a freedom of movement we enjoy. Still if we didn't have the side decks we'd just cut through.

Now the advantage of the Fathom layout is obvious giving more width for the salon. On a 40' boat with a 14'6" beam and galley up it's a pretty significant difference. In fact, I'm just guessing that versus two side decks it's about a 20% increase in the seating space of the salon. That's pretty significant.

Definitely a tradeoff. I'd still choose the side decks but I can understand those who like the Fathom as it is with the larger salon. The 40' was a comparatively small boat packing a lot into the space.
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Old 05-02-2014, 10:40 PM   #29
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The battle between interior room and deck space goes on. Many are attracted to the interior space particularly the ladies. The marketing people have latched on to that in a big way and any walk down the docks at a boat show of new models will make the point. This has driven the wide beam high free-board and multi deck approach. For people who want a cross somewhere between the house boat accommodations and a acceptable traveling boat this is a happy place. I personally lean the other way and want more boat and less accommodation. To get what I wanted I had a one off built with that idea in mind. Admittedly when my hairs need to sell my boat its going to be a tough sell. What percentage of buyers will pay extra for wide decks-big cockpit-low air height -smaller accommodations and modest beam in a 48 ft boat?
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Old 05-02-2014, 11:22 PM   #30
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I have no quarrel with the choice to have a boat without a sidedeck.
There are many boats I admire , can't afford, that offer max. interior room at the expense of any sidedeck.

I just disagreed with the statement made., maybe a bit too strongly, but I do disagree with that statement.
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Old 06-20-2014, 05:36 PM   #31
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The Fathom molds are now at Park Isle in Victoria BC. Park Isle has the experience and crew to continue the Fathom line, if they so choose.
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Old 06-20-2014, 07:30 PM   #32
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The Fathom molds are now at Park Isle in Victoria BC. Park Isle has the experience and crew to continue the Fathom line, if they so choose.
I am not familiar with their boats but I do know Greg Marshall, who I know and respect, is closely involved with them. Wonder if we might see some redesign and reintroduction of the Fathom.
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Old 06-20-2014, 11:51 PM   #33
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Sidedecks and interior room aside, the boat has too much freeboard and windage for my tastes. Those two particular attributes immediately dismiss it from my shortlist. I can say this about many trawlers I see, even the more prestigious ones. It reminds me a lot of the 10 million dollar yacht that tipped over at the dock. But hey, I'm no naval architect, I'm just a simple sailor that has a small trawler.
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Old 06-21-2014, 12:08 AM   #34
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The Fathom molds are now at Park Isle in Victoria BC. Park Isle has the experience and crew to continue the Fathom line, if they so choose.
Glad to hear it although I am afraid the "new" Fathom if any will become one expensive boat. Anything and everything is more expensive in Canada, and with model names like Royal Passagemaker, and Royal Corinthian ... it sounds elusive and expensive like Corinthian Leather...
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Old 06-21-2014, 12:42 AM   #35
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Sidedecks and interior room aside, the boat has too much freeboard and windage for my tastes. Those two particular attributes immediately dismiss it from my shortlist. I can say this about many trawlers I see, even the more prestigious ones. It reminds me a lot of the 10 million dollar yacht that tipped over at the dock. But hey, I'm no naval architect, I'm just a simple sailor that has a small trawler.
Coming from a sailing background I find boats that tower two and three stories up above the waterline disconcerting. I am also sensitive to the different motion higher up. There is also some thing about a short tall fat high freeboard boxy boat that does not appeal to me. That being said I am fully aware that there are many who enjoy being high off the water and rather have the extra interior room a three story boxy boat provides. So there will be people who like the Phantom type. The problem for Phantom is that there is plenty of new and used boat completion in the live aboard summer cottage type boat market.
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Old 06-21-2014, 10:05 AM   #36
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Sidedecks and interior room aside, the boat has too much freeboard and windage for my tastes. Those two particular attributes immediately dismiss it from my shortlist. I can say this about many trawlers I see, even the more prestigious ones. It reminds me a lot of the 10 million dollar yacht that tipped over at the dock. But hey, I'm no naval architect, I'm just a simple sailor that has a small trawler.
Many can agree, you are not a NA. Especially the thousand plus owners of Nordhavns, American Tugs, Fathoms etc. Dozens of these vessels are in my marina and all look great to my uneducated eye when sitting amongst the multitude of even taller non trawlers.

But I'd sure like to own a low rider Design by Dashew, Tad Roberts or Sam Devlin.
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Old 06-21-2014, 11:39 AM   #37
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I think Fathom has a much better chance of surviving as a model of a wider brand offering than as a stand alone brand which they were. Their potential customer is limited. A more mainstream architect may also be able to make some improvements to bring them closer to what more boaters are seeking without losing their uniqueness.
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Old 06-21-2014, 11:55 AM   #38
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I agree w Bligh.

I personally would not consider a Fathom boat and quite a few other highly respected boats because of their high up structures. Some have hulls that look too high but most just suffer from lofty cabins and fly bridges.

Deal me out. A low CG and fairly low windage is golden on pleasure boats. Windage is obvious but a low CG can hide in a tall structure. I really liked the Fathom while aboard so if I had enough money and lust I'd probably check out the CG. CG and "righting moment" is a numerical thing that can be checked.

Also I've never heard a boat add say "the highest righting moment and lowest CG on the market". Most people mostly don't care but safety and a nice motion on a boat is important to me and obviously bligh. You don't need to be a NA to suspect a high CG and windage is obvious. I think it's a some care and some don't coupled w the fact that capsizing trawlers are very rare. And what you like is the most important thing about pleasure boats.
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Old 06-21-2014, 02:28 PM   #39
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M Especially the thousand plus owners of Nordhavns, American Tugs, Fathoms etc. Dozens of these vessels are in my marina and all look great to my uneducated eye when sitting amongst the multitude of even taller non trawlers.
There are tens of thousands of MacGergor 26's and I'm sure they appeal to their owners as well. They are just not for me.

Here is something that really sparked my interest in the latest issue of Passagemaker (dont get me started on the puff piece regarding Northern Marine).

Elling E4 capsize test - YouTube

It seems to have a lot of freeboard as well, but is missing the extra superstructure. I'm sure it is more seaworthy than my boat is.
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Old 06-21-2014, 05:46 PM   #40
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Anybody know of a Fathom that flipped when cruising? Or other tall trawlers like a Nordhavn, Northwest or North Pacific? Malfeasance and fires seem to rule the pleasure boat sinkings I'm aware of.

The tallest for length and most ungainly vessels I've seen of late are the CG vessels but like the Elling most are built to right. Looks can be deceiving.
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