Extended cruising refrigeration needs

[ksanders]

I find it ammusing the amount of money folks will spend, and the amount of time they will invest in order to not run their generator, and or outfit their liveaboard sized boats with a full sized inverter.

Take referigeration for an example....

I priced out one of those nifty 12VDC cooler/fridge units on Amazon. It was something like $750

Then I got feeling bad and went to my local Home Depot and bought a household freezer for $175.

I do not think my household freezer takes all that much more (if any) BTU to keep my meat frozen than the 12V unit.

I could have invested thousands of dollars in a cold plate freezer. Yes Thousands of dollars. Admittidly, with the right insulation those things will be more efficient.

My cruising style is to spend about a week at a time away from any port, or harbor. The difference is that I do not look at my generator as a bad thing. I look at it as just another system that is part of a very complex boat. Yes the generator takes maintenance, but not very much. I change the oil when needed, and fix it when it breaks, but it’s a very reliable, simple to operate and mantain piece of equipment.

Now the inverter is another story. I installed it in 2011 and havent touched it since.

I’m sorry, but for all the time, and energy, and money people put into getting around having or running a generator and inverter, they could just as easily maintan the generator they probaby have, or put on on their boat.

 

[john61ct]

Yes, a plentiful energy available on demand enables that attitude, very common in the fossil fueled world. Not needing to be energy efficient makes the consuming devices cheaper, that's for sure.

Sailing, especially the 99% which are small boats with no genset, is very different.

And living on the hook, rarely if ever seeing shore power even more so, then burning fuel never or just a few hours per week total is a great goal.

Not for your context obviously, but valid for many.

 

[Simi 60]

And living on the hook, rarely if ever seeing shore power even more so, then burning fuel never or just a few hours per week total is a great goal.

Not for your context obviously, but valid for many.

Redundancy for us.
If the genset packs it in for some reason hopefully the sun will still be working to keep our ice cream frozen.

High initial cost of large 12v frige/freezer and higher cost again of repair makes it extremely viable to install solar/mppt charger and much cheaper 240v houshold gear which is easy replaceable almost anywhere.

I can have a new 4cubic ft 240v fridge onboard and running in 24 hours for less than the cost of getting a service tech to look at let alone work on a 12v one.
I'd probably have to wait several days to get them turn up as well.

Solar can be done at the right price, we bought 6mth old panels, 2500 watts worth and a large mppt charger shipped in from the US to run them for under $3000.
If running 100% genset, that would be about 18mths worth of fuel and maintenance so for us, we have recouped our capital cost already.

 

[OldDan1943]

So many IFs
If, if, if the boat sinks, you will not worry about the stuff in the fridge nor the freezer.

 

[Simi 60]

So many IFs
If, if, if the boat sinks, you will not worry about the stuff in the fridge nor the freezer.

And if it doesn't, which is the most likely outcome, I would rather live well than like a caveman.

 

[OldDan1943]

And if it doesn't, which is the most likely outcome, I would rather live well than like a caveman.

Eat lobster.... and fresh fish.

Here's a can of SPAM and some Valetta processed cheese food. LOL

 

[Simi 60]

Could spend 100 years in these parts and not catch a fresh lobster.
Crabs and fresh fish are not a given, commercial fisherman rape the area regularly leaving you, more often than not, eating spam and cheese.

Inch thick rump steaks, pork loin roasts, chicken breast, ice cream , cold beer and wine and ice for adult beveridges are but a few short steps away for me.

 

[OldDan1943]

Inch thick rump steaks, pork loin roasts, chicken breast, ice cream , cold beer and wine and ice for adult beveridges are but a few short steps away for me.

With all that, sounds like a party. Send address. We will help you rotate and recycle your food.

 

[BruceK]

I get the service cost vs purchase cost. Our U-line icemaker needs 240v power, it works, kind of, needs a service. I can buy a benchtop 240v icemaker for $150, maybe less. We`re not ice addicts, but if we were, it would cost less to buy the benchtop one than fix the U-line, and way less trouble getting someone out to do it.

 

[john61ct]

I'll send you two of the benchtops brand new for the broken Uline, pay all the shipping and be much happier than you a few years later.

 

[Simi 60]

With all that, sounds like a party. Send address. We will help you rotate and recycle your food.

No party just a few months between meat and adult beverage re-supply.

General groceries and veg is bought online and delivered to a nearby ferry terminal for dinghy pickup.

 

[OldDan1943]

I'll send you two of the benchtops brand new for the broken Uline, pay all the shipping and be much happier than you a few years later.

An alternative, ice cube trays. Sort of low tech but they do work.
Or get a foam cooler and a bag of ice from the grocery store.

 

[john61ct]

Grocery stores hard to come by in the context of this thread.

I've sailed with cruisers that didn't use money for 2-3 months at a time, that is "extended" AFAIC.

But I realize that's not so relevant to most here.

 

[OldDan1943]

Did Columbus have ice an ice maker?
Before refrigeration, ice would be harvested in the winter, stored in an ice house, insulated with sawdust. Maybe we can store the ice in a dry bilge????

 

[BruceK]

As mentioned, it`s somewhat academic, we are not "ice addicts". We know people with a GB52,their captain says the 2 icemakers fitted struggle with the demand.

 

[OldDan1943]

As mentioned, it`s somewhat academic, we are not "ice addicts". We know people with a GB52,their captain says the 2 icemakers fitted struggle with the demand.

I think I have used 12 ice cubes in 2 years.

 

[Simi 60]

I think I have used 12 ice cubes in 2 years.

I use more than that every day, had 4 in my "breakfast drink"
but use ice cube trays in the freezer.

 

[Simi 60]

Did Columbus have ice an ice maker?

He didn't have an engine, GPS, radio etc etc etc either, but I bet you have them.

How come? Columbus didn't need them.

 

[Sabre602]

Howard mentioned the Engel, which uses a super-efficient swing compressor. Likewise those made by ARB, Dometic, and others. These units are prized by overland travelers who spend weeks in the backcountry with no more power available than from the alternator of their truck and often some solar assistance. They're several generations newer than old Danfoss technology, holding plate systems, etc.

The folks we recently bought our boat from had an ARB fridge/freezer aboard and loved it. On the larger boat that they're renovating their new galley will include two ARB units on heavy-duty pull-out sliders, another trick borrowed from the overlanding crowd. They're going to stack two top-loading units, which will give them a capacity of 156 liters of combined fridge & freezer with stellar energy efficiency.

 

[caltexflanc]

A basic law of human nature is that if you have the space, you will fill it. Be it closets in your home, the stock room of a retail store, or refrigeration.

When we were cruising, we liked to stay away from the dock for weeks at a time. Our boat when we got it had a Scotsman clear-ice maker and a beverage cooler on the aft deck, a wine cooler in the salon and a household Sub Zero side by side (with ice maker) in the galley. Did we "need" all that? No. But we we were sure glad we had it!

A very valuable tool to have on board was a vacuum sealer. This makes a huge difference in the quality of frozen meats and fish in particular, also frozen fresh vegetables. We could stock up on meats at Costco or Penn Dutch and be set for a month or two. Still use it back here on land; we had a eye of round roast this week that we bought a year ago and it was excellent. The sealer had many uses beyond food; great way to keep batteries and other items fresh and corrosion free.

 

[OldDan1943]

He didn't have an engine, GPS, radio etc etc etc either, but I bet you have them.

How come? Columbus didn't need them.

Nope, just sail to the edge of the earth and turn back.

 

[roguewave]

This is what you want, I’ve had one for a couple years and it works great!

Fridges

 

[Simi 60]

.

The folks we recently bought our boat from had an ARB fridge/freezer aboard and loved it. On the larger boat that they're renovating their new galley will include two ARB units on heavy-duty pull-out sliders, another trick borrowed from the overlanding crowd. They're going to stack two top-loading units, which will give them a capacity of 156 liters of combined fridge & freezer with stellar energy efficiency.

So $3000 worth of 12v to do what a domestic $200 bar fridge does.

 

[john61ct]

Again, if you have plenty of shore power on demand, then of course efficiency is of no concern.

But if you live for days on the hook without starting any engines then good efficiency is paramount.

 

[Simi 60]

Again, if you have plenty of shore power on demand, then of course efficiency is of no concern.

But if you live for days on the hook without starting any engines then good efficiency is paramount.

Mate, as I have said before we live on the hook continually and have not tied to a marina in 18 mths, so ZERO shore power.

We are totally 240v apart from lights and pumps
180 litre hot water system
500 litre fridge freezer
110 litre freezer
120 litre fridge x 2
Washing machine and dryer
40 & 37 inch TV
Microwave, pressure cooker, sandwich press, and and and.
All running on 240v

Sunny days we NEVER run the genset
Rainy days and winter may see 1.5 hours/day of genset

 

[john61ct]

As you say, you have plenty of shore power on demand.

I was talking about AC generically and quantity, not the specific source.

As opposed to someone with very limited energy inputs. These very efficient systems would be fine for someone living on say 50-100AH per day total.

 

[Simi 60]

Shore power to me is plugged into, wait for it......................SHORE.

Power doesn't know where it comes from, ours is BOAT power.
Same effort to create 12v as it is to create 240v.
Genset, solar or wind, choose your poison.

Relatively small panels, small battery bank and a small inverter will run domestic bar fridges fine and cost less than 12v of same size.
I know liveaboards on the hook on a sailing cat doing just that.

 

[john61ct]

Yes, of course they cost less.

I agree it would be silly to pay a lot more for greater efficiency if you have a lot of power available.

It is true that level of power availability is usually available in the world of trawlers.

But the fact remains, some people do want/need that much greater level of energy efficiency and are happy to pay for it.

 

[Simi 60]

My point is, which you seem to be missing, is that for cost of a single 60 litre 12v esky you could probably get solar, battery and small inverter added to what the boat already has and run the 240v bar fridge which is twice the size.
1/2 the money spent for twice the refrigeration.

When the 12v esky plays up your capital outlay pretty much demands an attempt at repair.
When the 240v bar fridge plays up you simply buy a new one.

 

[john61ct]

Again, what you're missing are scenarios where there is simply no more room for any solar, and the greater efficiency is required.

Lots of boats don't have any generator, no shore power devices, not a single inverter on board and that is by choice since they are so wasteful of power.

Even the most efficient well insulated shore power freezer, set up with a dedicated inverter that is switched on/off by a 12V powered thermostat, burns AH at double or triple the rate of these ultra-efficient systems designed to run of DC only.

There's a whole industry, supplying thousands of units per month all around the world, do you think it's all based on stupid customers?