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Old 01-09-2009, 03:35 PM   #21
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RE: Evacuation Order

You guys are mixing up FEMA with the National Flood Insurance Program. FEMA provides immediate assistance after the storm, wtih various things like ice, food, supposedly temporary housing, etc. The flood insurance covers rising water, which isn't covered by your regular insurance.

I'm in the middle of this stuff after Ike, so I can tell you exactly how it's working, despite conjecture from everyone all over the rest of the country.

Friends of mine who lost their houses due to rising water are still living with me. FEMA who claims to provide temporary housing asked them how much it would be to rent a house. For a similar house that they were living in, it would be about $1600/month. FEMA said, OK, we'll give you $900. That would get them a flop maybe 50-100 miles away, with all the demand for housing after the storm.

After the appraisers came by and did the house, and all the paperwork on contents, dwelling, etc. was done, the national flood insurance folks, just say "no, it's not worth that, it's $60,000 less. Tough."

No ****. Now if you don't like it, you can tussle with them forever, sue them, whatever. They know that X% of folks will just give up and go away. X% will take the reduced settlement, since they're cash strapped and need a place to live. The final batch will actually fight them and probably win. In the meantime, they've kept everybody's cash in their pockets for as long as they can. The billboards are up everywhere now, for law firms just dying to sue. Of course, they'll be the ones to win overall.

It's a pathetic, sickening situation. All these people bought insurance thinking they were covered, and the federal flood insurance program is systematically screwing all of them, when they really need help. It's disgusting, sickening, and should be illegal. It's not due dilligence, it's harrasment. I've seen it over and over with lots of my friends in the area. Thank god I'm in a high spot and don't have to deal with this. But I can tell you it's a disgrace.

I coudl go on and on, but I'm out of gas right now. Those of you who aren't living in a hurricane or flood disaster area can speculate, but I'll give you the straight scoop. It's pathetic.

I'll add that the regular windstorm coverage seems to be working like it should, but with the storm surge all those rising water claims go to the flood insurance folks. FEMA did a great job right off the bat bringing emergency stuff here, but went to **** on the followup.

Here's the process. If you had a disaster claim for FEMA, you have to claim it with them. They automatically deny you. Then you have to apply to the SBA (small business administration) for a loan. THEN (regardless of the outcome of that) you qualify for more federal aid. For people who had their homes destroyed, the SBA (I still haven't figured out how that comes into play) MAY make you a loan, but the conditions are onerous. The friends I have who are capable are doing their own financing.

I guess the short version.. don't rely on the gummt to help you out in a disaster, even though they've been collecting those insurance premiums.
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Old 01-09-2009, 04:57 PM   #22
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Evacuation Order

Quote:
Keith wrote:

FEMA who claims to provide temporary housing asked them how much it would be to rent a house. For a similar house that they were living in, it would be about $1600/month. FEMA said, OK, we'll give you $900.
You know, if our house burned down or was destroyed in a flood, I would consider myself pretty damn*lucky if the government (or anyone) was willing to provide me with four walls and a roof to live in while I figured out what to do next.* I have absolutly zero, nada, zilch, no sympathy for someone who whines because they had a nice house and the equivelant rental would be $1600 a month but the government (my money) says, hey, you can rent something habitable for $900, here's the $900.

If they aren't grateful for that I say the hell with them, they can live under a frickin' blue tarp spread between a couple of trees.

I have no patience--- none--- for anyone who won't take responsibility for their own lives and isn't smart enough to anticipate what might happen if a storm comes or a river rises.* Someone wants to live by a body of water that has a reputation for rising when storms come because they want a water view?* Fine, I have no problem with that.* But don't expect any sympathy from me--- and I don't think they should get any from the government either (which is my money)--- if they don't anticipate what's gonna happen if the storm comes and*the water rises-- as it has done*for millions of years-- and they aren't prepared to deal with it.

I'm a major fan of Chuck Darwin---- if you're dumb you die.* Sounds harsh but I'm fed up with*all the people who are too stupid to get out of the way when a tree starts to blow over or too lazy to take responsibility for themselves.

And when assistance is offered, instead of being happy to get it,*people whine because their FEMA trailer doesn't come with a two-car garage and a 60-inch flatscreen with Blue Ray DVD, I say screw 'em.* They can live in a culvert with the muskrats.



-- Edited by Marin at 21:38, 2009-01-09
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Old 01-09-2009, 07:25 PM   #23
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RE: Evacuation Order

No Keith** * We are not the ones confusing the two. I know the difference. I also know that when you buy anything, including insurance, if you don't read the fine print you may ultimately suffer the consequences. You cannot buy insurance that does not have fine print to determine what is truly covered. Your average NFIP insurance is very basic, and will cover Real Property (Structure), and Personal Property (the contents of the structure). The reality is you must read the fine print. Buyer beware. There are limitations on anything, and when you make a purchase, it is your responsibility to read and understand the limitations of what you have purchased. When you buy a tomato, is there an implied right to a lifetime of tomatoes? NO! If you buy insurance for a 1967 Corvette, is there an implied right to replacement of a 1967 Corvette until the year 3067. NO! There are limitations which are the responsibility of the purchaser to read and understand. Make sure you have what you need and want. I don't know what you want, although I might know what you need. Is it my place to tell you what you want or need. NO. It is up to you to make that determination at the time of purchase. Private enterprise insurance (non-NFIP) is no different. Due to the unlimited possibilities related to what you and I might have in our homes, and what expectations we might have, it is up to us to make the determination as to what we should purchase, and not try to lay blame on someone else if we made a bad choice. It is so American (and I'm a proud American) to blame the government when our expectations are not met. Why would you or anyone else expect the government to offer insurance that gives you back 100% of what you lost if you did not pay for insurance that insures 100% of what you lost? Private enterprise recognized the opportunity to lose every dime they have with a philosophy like that, and thank goodness, so did our government. So, can we not just be happy to live in a country that gives us some help in a disaster not of the governments doing, instead of a country that would expect us to recognize the risks, be adult and take it on the chin. We are spoiled. This much I know.*
** * *I know this much. We need to be responsible for our own decisions to live where we do. We need to build in a way that best prepares for the most likely disasters. We need to be willing to purchase insurance that will cover our needs, or make up the difference out of pocket. It's called self reliance. I do not depend on you or my government for my future. I depend on me. If my government is able and willing to help me some along the way, I can only say Thank You, and I apologize for not being more prepared, and selecting a safer place to build my home. Since when is everyone else responsibile for my choices?


** * *These are just some of my opinions. If you don't like them, remember that I have many more.



** * * * * *Carey
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Old 01-09-2009, 07:52 PM   #24
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RE: Evacuation Order

Keith** * Don't try to advise people how the system works, as you really don't understand. You must apply to the SBA for an SBA (Small Business Administration) loan, if you expect to receive any help with personal property (contents of your home). If you qualify, you must accept the loan and be happy for the low interest rate. If you do not qualify, you MAY qualify for a grant up to and not to exceed ($28,800 total for Real Property, or structure, combined with Personal Property, or contents). The maximum IHP of $28,800 may be made up of any combination of "Real" or "Personal" property. It is not intended to solve all your problems, but to be a start in helping you to recover. The Federal Government cannot and should not be expected to replace everything that people lost, or people would build homes in the middle of the Pacific Ocean with no regard for the well being of the structure, knowing SAM would replace their loss. Hello!!! When are you and I going to accept responsibilty for our choices? I believe you to be a very intelligent human being, well above the average from what you have published on this site. Please help me maintain this conviction. We all accept some risk for what we own, where we build, how we live, etc.. I believe we priveleged Americans need to take responsibility for our choices and actions, and I don't say this because I work for FEMA, but because I am an American who is slightly ashamed of our belief that we are entitled to limitless protection by our government. Rejoice in the protection we do have, and help spread the idea that we all need to be responsible for ourselves. HAS ANYONE SEEN MY SOAPBOX? * *Sorry!!! * Carey
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Old 01-09-2009, 07:54 PM   #25
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RE: Evacuation Order

Ken** * I went off a bit, and I hope that my rants did not in any way take away from the worry, trepidation, anquish, etc., that you are feeling at this time. I hope that all is well with you and yours.*
** * * * * * * * * Carey
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Old 01-09-2009, 09:55 PM   #26
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RE: Evacuation Order

Hey, Carey:

I'm with you.* We are survivors of earthquake, flood, landslide and fire.* Sometimes our insurance covered the problem and sometimes not.* Just had to suck it up and get on with living.* Building in areas prone to these problems has inherit risks for which we need to prepare.* If you don't buy protection you had better have a fat wallet. *
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Old 01-10-2009, 03:04 AM   #27
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RE: Evacuation Order

Quote:



Carey wrote:


No Keith
** * We are not the ones confusing the two. I know the difference. I also know that when you buy anything, including insurance, if you don't read the fine print you may ultimately suffer the consequences. You cannot buy insurance that does not have fine print to determine what is truly covered. Your average NFIP insurance is very basic, and will cover Real Property (Structure), and Personal Property (the contents of the structure). The reality is you must read the fine print. Buyer beware. There are limitations on anything, and when you make a purchase, it is your responsibility to read and understand the limitations of what you have purchased. When you buy a tomato, is there an implied right to a lifetime of tomatoes? NO! If you buy insurance for a 1967 Corvette, is there an implied right to replacement of a 1967 Corvette until the year 3067. NO! There are limitations which are the responsibility of the purchaser to read and understand. Make sure you have what you need and want. I don't know what you want, although I might know what you need. Is it my place to tell you what you want or need. NO. It is up to you to make that determination at the time of purchase. Private enterprise insurance (non-NFIP) is no different. Due to the unlimited possibilities related to what you and I might have in our homes, and what expectations we might have, it is up to us to make the determination as to what we should purchase, and not try to lay blame on someone else if we made a bad choice. It is so American (and I'm a proud American) to blame the government when our expectations are not met. Why would you or anyone else expect the government to offer insurance that gives you back 100% of what you lost if you did not pay for insurance that insures 100% of what you lost? Private enterprise recognized the opportunity to lose every dime they have with a philosophy like that, and thank goodness, so did our government. So, can we not just be happy to live in a country that gives us some help in a disaster not of the governments doing, instead of a country that would expect us to recognize the risks, be adult and take it on the chin. We are spoiled. This much I know.*
** * *I know this much. We need to be responsible for our own decisions to live where we do. We need to build in a way that best prepares for the most likely disasters. We need to be willing to purchase insurance that will cover our needs, or make up the difference out of pocket. It's called self reliance. I do not depend on you or my government for my future. I depend on me. If my government is able and willing to help me some along the way, I can only say Thank You, and I apologize for not being more prepared, and selecting a safer place to build my home. Since when is everyone else responsibile for my choices?


** * *These are just some of my opinions. If you don't like them, remember that I have many more.



** * * * * *Carey
Lots of big generalities there Carey. OK, who else offeres flood insurance? Nobody that I know of. And the SPECIFICS of this particular case... they bought flood insurance to cover their dwelling value. They did read the fine print. The flood insurance folks just won't pay them the value they insured for. Now they're in for a fight. Why bother paying for that much insurance when they're never going to pay you anyway?
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Old 01-10-2009, 03:14 AM   #28
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RE: Evacuation Order

Quote:
Carey wrote:

Keith
** * Don't try to advise people how the system works, as you really don't understand. You must apply to the SBA for an SBA (Small Business Administration) loan, if you expect to receive any help with personal property (contents of your home). If you qualify, you must accept the loan and be happy for the low interest rate. If you do not qualify, you MAY qualify for a grant up to and not to exceed ($28,800 total for Real Property, or structure, combined with Personal Property, or contents). The maximum IHP of $28,800 may be made up of any combination of "Real" or "Personal" property. It is not intended to solve all your problems, but to be a start in helping you to recover. The Federal Government cannot and should not be expected to replace everything that people lost, or people would build homes in the middle of the Pacific Ocean with no regard for the well being of the structure, knowing SAM would replace their loss. Hello!!! When are you and I going to accept responsibilty for our choices? I believe you to be a very intelligent human being, well above the average from what you have published on this site. Please help me maintain this conviction. We all accept some risk for what we own, where we build, how we live, etc.. I believe we priveleged Americans need to take responsibility for our choices and actions, and I don't say this because I work for FEMA, but because I am an American who is slightly ashamed of our belief that we are entitled to limitless protection by our government. Rejoice in the protection we do have, and help spread the idea that we all need to be responsible for ourselves. HAS ANYONE SEEN MY SOAPBOX? * *Sorry!!! * Carey
** * * * * *
No, I really do understand as I am sitting here with people going through the process. You have more detail (thanks) in your posting as to limits, but the fact is that you make a claim, you are rejected, then* you have to go to SBA, then go back, and back, and back...

I guess it's just standard bureaucracy, but it is maddening and stressful to everybody who's having to go through it. These are not whiners like you saw all over New Orleans during Katrina. These folks were over there as soon as they could return to their houses cleaning up the mess as best they could. They're just trying to get the money they had paid to insure their houses and contents for.
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Old 01-10-2009, 07:10 AM   #29
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RE: Evacuation Order

Keith and all ya'all
**** I cannot deny that the NFIP is not perfect, any more than commercial insurance. You truly don't know how good your insurance is until you have to make a claim. Even a team of good lawyers would have difficulty working through the loopholes. One thing I have found is that many people don't realize that you need two NFIP policies to protect against flood. You need one for the structure, and one for personal property.
**** As to Keiths statement about NFIP being the only show in town for flood insurance, I believe that is true, with perhaps one exception. I would bet, that for a price, you can purchase flood insurance through Lloyds. Perhaps not affordably, but I know that if I lived within ten miles of any part of the Gulf or adjacent bayou and other bodies of water that I would be well elevated, and giving Lloyds a call.
**** I hope I haven't appeared to be callous towards the plight of all of you who were effected by this terrible storm. To have survived Rita with whatever damage, and then Ike, would be unimaginable for me had I not worked so many flood disasters. There is no type of storm that is more devastating than flood. The cleanup is nasty dirty stuff, the damage quite thorough, as it gets all your personal property, and the expense and time to rebuild are extensive.
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Old 01-10-2009, 09:04 AM   #30
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RE: Evacuation Order

Krogenguy wrote:
"If you don't buy protection you had better have a fat wallet."

To which I say...and if you do buy protection you had better still have a fat wallet...because you're going to get screwed anyway.


Carey wrote:
"You truly don't know how good your insurance is until you have to make a claim."

And I reply...because that's when you'll find out just how bad it really is and just had badly the insurance company is going to screw you.
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Old 01-10-2009, 10:30 AM   #31
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RE: Evacuation Order

A lot depends on your agent, how large the borkerage firm,* rating of the insurance company*and the insurance adjuster.* I personally know my insrance agent, the*brokerage firm is one of the biggest in the Puget Sound,*and our claims have been handle quickly and more than fair.

My wife totaled her Dodge Derango which they paid more than we paid for it 1 1/2 years ago, so we*went out*and bought a newer fancier one.**Steve, and the Linda the agent where right on top of it.

So some times it better to pay a little more with a large brokers and highlty rated insurance companies.**You get what you pay for and*I prefer being a name rather than a number.

*
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