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Old 06-30-2016, 12:52 PM   #21
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Currently in Brazil ethanol blending in gasoline is 27%. We have cars that run with 100% ethanol and called flex cars that can use pure ethanol or gasoline mixed.
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Old 06-30-2016, 02:01 PM   #22
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I buy truck loads of ethanol for making glass cleaners rather than using a petro base solvent as evaporate enhancer. The stuff is purified and also used to raise the alcohol level in wines. I looked into buying the fuel grade ethanol because it was much cheaper after talking to the manufacturer it was a no go because of the extra impurity's in it are rather nasty. I also talk to the sales rep and we joke about how much petroleum that goes into making a liter of ethanol.
I think that its a good idea to use it in fuel for now and that it will be only temporary till they find a replacement for fossil fuels on land based units.
Once the land based units are powered by something else; the volume of gas used will drop and there will be no need to water it down with ethanol. Cost wise it would not be feasible to keep using it . Unless it swings the other way where gas engines only burn pure ethanol
My 2 cents and things are changing quicker every day
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Old 07-01-2016, 07:47 AM   #23
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The ethanol makers sell the leftovers to cattlemen who feed it to the cattle.
Cattlemen also have been known to feed dead sick anilmals to cattle. That is how the brain disease spongiform_encephalopathy, mad cow disease started. If the cows could grow on sludge, the farmers would feed that to the cattle.
Whatever is cheapest to get the best price at the markets for whatever you produce is how it is. If you dont like it, then buy organic foods.?

What are "the leftovers" called? Are you saying it's unsafe to feed that to cattle?

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Old 07-01-2016, 07:49 AM   #24
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I think that its a good idea to use it in fuel for now and that it will be only temporary till they find a replacement for fossil fuels on land based units.

I keep thinking fuel -- or a fuel additive -- derived from poppy seeds would be the next new thing. Solve the fuel issue and Afghanistan's economy in one fell swoop. (In case anyone runs with that idea, I'll be happy to accept modest royalties.)

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Old 07-01-2016, 08:11 AM   #25
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Peter

No typos. Translation to complete clarity is thwarted by trade secret abeyance - on many levels. I best as allowed explained this method of utilizing atmospheric CO2 as a base product for a global scope new fuel source till my finger tips ached in 2011 through 2012, to numerous TF members. I've not time nor energy to do that again. Vast majority of TF persons who read what I described were too often rudely condescending toward this method and its need for development to assist stopping the ever increasing speed of marching toward climate catastrophe.
Art, I get it. I was just a bit bemused with some of your terms, like..."CO2 as a base product for a global scope new fuel source." Also..."transformed into fungible, drop-in gasoline, diesel, etc"
It was the those terms that I was mainly confused by.

However, I have no problem accepting the climate change argument, as we are seeing it, and living it, every time we watch the news lately. Records in temps, max and minimum, rainfall of record levels, trouts, massive bushfires, frequent tornados where they were rare before, loss of ice cover, shrinking glaciers...it's all there. I think climate change a better term than global warming, because it is the extreme swings that are causing the harm for now - sea level rises over time will be much slower.

The debate as to whether it is just another natural cycle, or being influenced by human activity and CO2 output is almost specious, because whatever the cause, it is not going to be pretty, as it will change the world as a place to live substantially.

What is not in doubt is that the burning of fossil fuels does release back into the atmosphere, CO2 previously nicely sequestered out of the atmosphere into inert forms like trees, other plants, animals, shellfish, etc, at a time when it was in much higher quantities, and the world was a much hotter, steamier place, and inhospitable to species like us. Now, we are steadily releasing it again.

It therefore appears to me entirely possible that a process that can take that excess CO2, and convert it into a fuel, therefore allowing us to stop burning other sources like coal and oil, could well be win win all round. If that's the process your people are into, well, best of luck with it. It would be huge, really huge...

Coming back on thread, it would also obviate the need to burn alcohol as well.
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Old 07-01-2016, 08:57 AM   #26
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I keep thinking fuel -- or a fuel additive -- derived from poppy seeds would be the next new thing. Solve the fuel issue and Afghanistan's economy in one fell swoop. (In case anyone runs with that idea, I'll be happy to accept modest royalties.)

-Chris
Algae is great fuel source. Some of our consortium companies are working on making that become a really fast and economical turn over substance for producing "green" fuel. Its scalable ramifications as a fuel source are enormous. There are many problems to conquer in order to bring algae production to a scale that can help power the world.
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Old 07-01-2016, 09:13 AM   #27
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Art, I get it. I was just a bit bemused with some of your terms, like..."CO2 as a base product for a global scope new fuel source." Also..."transformed into fungible, drop-in gasoline, diesel, etc"
It was the those terms that I was mainly confused by.

Global "scope" sometimes supplants the term global "scale".

"Fungible" means fully mixable into and with other products of like kind. I.e., CO2 based liquid hydrocarbon fuels could easily be mixed in with refined fossil and/or forms of "green" liquid hydrocarbon fuels .

"Drop-in" is slang for capability of being able to be dropped into any container already holding similar liquid hydrocarbon fuel... again pointing to the fact - it is fungible!
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Old 07-01-2016, 09:24 AM   #28
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ethanol is a fraud on the American taxpayer to support Iowa corn farmers. It uses more energy to produce than it provides and reduces fuel mileage when used because it contains less energy that gasoline.
because it mixes readily with water it is not a good boat fuel when mixed with gasoline unless used quickly.
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Old 07-01-2016, 09:44 AM   #29
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Trying to not get political but back in the early '70s while studying Marine Biology we had lengthy discussions on using ethanol as fuel in vehicles. Our discussions basically centered around why would we take a food supply and use it as fuel and the ethics of doing so. To a person we all agreed that using methanol from waste products made much more sense than using corn/sugar cane, etc. And this was coming from a bunch of somewhat liberal kids! Unfortunately back then methanol conversion to ethanol wasn't a viable option. It is now! But due to politics (read that as money coming from taxpayers going through politicians sticky hands to a small sector of our economy) methanol > ethanol may never replace ethanol from corn. I spent my entire career in the "oil patch" but recognize the value of going to a green fuel. But let's do it the smart way.
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Old 07-01-2016, 10:10 AM   #30
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Trying to not get political but back in the early '70s while studying Marine Biology we had lengthy discussions on using ethanol as fuel in vehicles. Our discussions basically centered around why would we take a food supply and use it as fuel and the ethics of doing so. To a person we all agreed that using methanol from waste products made much more sense than using corn/sugar cane, etc. And this was coming from a bunch of somewhat liberal kids! Unfortunately back then methanol conversion to ethanol wasn't a viable option. It is now! But due to politics (read that as money coming from taxpayers going through politicians sticky hands to a small sector of our economy) methanol > ethanol may never replace ethanol from corn. I spent my entire career in the "oil patch" but recognize the value of going to a green fuel. But let's do it the smart way.
folivier

Unfortunately... "do[ing] it the smart way" is not in the general genetics of our human race, as a whole - historically and currently speaking that is. But, waiting until the last second for accomplishing needed actions is in our genes. "Business as Usual" regarding the fuel industry has gained too much inertia to be quickly/easily redirected into "smart way" procedures.

When our planet's climate and ecosystem become so changed, and obviously continuing to accelerate into their many forms of changes, that writing is more clearly on the wall regarding potential for humanity's demise... then and only then will the big guns come out in full force to try and "Save our/the World"

Hopefully during the years leading to this forced sea change in attitude there have been enough new-source fuel alternatives developed to enable continuation of life in general. Momentum is building... but... business as usual in the fuel industry still has strong inertia-hold on same o', same o' procedures.
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Old 07-02-2016, 10:58 AM   #31
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"It therefore appears to me entirely possible that a process that can take that excess CO2, and convert it into a fuel,"

This exists NOW ! its called a plant.
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