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Old 06-15-2017, 09:10 PM   #1
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Entering Sooke Basin - Local Knowledge Needed Please

Greetings,

We would like to explore Sooke Basin this weekend. Information available indicates it is possible in my little non-trawler.

Can anyone with local knowledge advise further, please? I am concerned about shoaling and the minimum tidal range I should consider for having about 6' of water under me. It looks like low tide Saturday afternoon will still be over +3 feet.

Thanks for any help!

Jeff
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Old 06-16-2017, 01:03 AM   #2
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Wow, just looked at that on the charts and that is some skinny water in there. The outer bay looks fairly straight forward but getting into that back basin area requires going through some really shallow water. Would definitely have to go through on better than +5 tide to make it safely, at least for our boat. Post some pictures if you go, would like to see that area.

Marty.....................
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Old 06-16-2017, 01:17 AM   #3
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Just make sure that you know what the chart datum is for the depth. I readily admit that I am confused by the depth information on Canada charts. IIRC, they don't use MLLW as the datum as the US charts do.
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Old 06-16-2017, 01:41 AM   #4
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Just make sure that you know what the chart datum is for the depth. I readily admit that I am confused by the depth information on Canada charts. IIRC, they don't use MLLW as the datum as the US charts do.
I think they use "lowest" rather than MLLW since they do not have minus tides (or something like that). I was using Vector charts on Coastal Explorer so all depths were shown in feet to the same datum which is, I believe, MLLW.

Marty......................
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Old 06-16-2017, 11:16 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by IRENE View Post
Greetings,

We would like to explore Sooke Basin this weekend. Information available indicates it is possible in my little non-trawler.

Can anyone with local knowledge advise further, please? I am concerned about shoaling and the minimum tidal range I should consider for having about 6' of water under me. It looks like low tide Saturday afternoon will still be over +3 feet.

Thanks for any help!

Jeff
Just use the two sets of range markers at the entrance when you come in. If you want to gunkhole up the basin beyond the marinas you are on your own.
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Old 06-16-2017, 11:36 AM   #6
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Thanks all.

My Navionics for iPad adjusts its depth indications as the tide changes, so I believe that what I see is what is charted.

My secondary plan, if the water is sufficiently clear and the light is right, is to post the Admiral at the bow to watch the bottom.

I will try to get some photos on the way out - if not task saturated navigating the "ditch". I will post follow-up, regardless.

Keep the advice coming please. Cheers!

Jeff
alongside Victoria, BC
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Old 06-16-2017, 11:50 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRENE;
We would like to explore Sooke Basin this weekend.
I am concerned about shoaling and the minimum tidal range I should consider for having about 6' of water under me.
Right up the gut.

You’ll be fine.

Datum is Lowest NORMAL Tide.
Sooke = 1.9 meter = just over 6 feet.
(edited for lousy phone eyes)

You’ll be fine.

Run with minimal wake which, in your boat, should be dead slow or flat out.

You’ll be fine.
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Old 06-16-2017, 12:08 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartySchwartz View Post
I think they use "lowest" rather than MLLW since they do not have minus tides (or something like that). I was using Vector charts on Coastal Explorer so all depths were shown in feet to the same datum which is, I believe, MLLW.



Marty......................


It is the "I believe" part which makes me nervous.

Canadian charts say that the datum is Low Normal Tide or LNT. However, LNT is not actually given. I believe LNT is a hold over term and that now they actually use Lower Low Water Large Tide (LLWLT) as the datum. The difference between LLWLT and MLLW can be as much as 4' I believe along the US/Canada border. Another way to look at it is that a "0" tide is a lot lower in Canada than it is in the US.

So if you are using CE, or one of the other apps which use vector charts (I use iSailor for the iPad), does it display depths relative to MLLW or LLWLT? In the printed charts for both countries, they will use the other countries depths (convert the units) and will state that on the chart. US charts will say that Canadian depths are relative to LNT.

Say you want to go into Sooke Basin and are using CE, iSailor, or another electronic app. If the datum the electronic device is showing you is MLLW and you are using a Canadian tide table, then you may think that there is 4' more water available than their really is.

My guess is that the commercial providers of vector charts use MLLW in the US and LLWLT (or the appropriate LNT for that spot) in Canada. However, that is just a guess. I don't like guessing. There must be a way to determine the datum used in electronic charts that I just don't know. It would be easy to see in CE I would imagine, but I haven't been able to find it in iSailor.
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Old 06-16-2017, 12:36 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhays;
It is the "I believe" part which makes me nervous.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dhays;
LNT is not actually given.
CHS3411 shows datum for Sooke.
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Old 06-16-2017, 01:31 PM   #10
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CHS3411 shows datum for Sooke.
Thanks HW.

I don't have that chart, and the image that I can find is hard to read. It appears that LNT is 1.9 meters below Mean Water Level at Sooke. MWL seems to be 1.9 meters? LLWLT is .3 meters.

This begs the question, why not just either use LLWLT as the datum, or list the LNT? It seems overly convoluted to list LNT relative to MWL.

btw, nice to see you post HW.
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Old 06-16-2017, 01:57 PM   #11
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Thanks HW.

I don't have that chart, and the image that I can find is hard to read. It appears that LNT is 1.9 meters below Mean Water Level at Sooke. MWL seems to be 1.9 meters? LLWLT is .3 meters.

This begs the question, why not just either use LLWLT as the datum, or list the LNT? It seems overly convoluted to list LNT relative to MWL.

btw, nice to see you post HW.
Thanks Dave. I've been on a 9 month marathon, 1 rickety old man shuffle at a time.

I was in there last year on a big whaler (28'?) out of Peddler Bay. Skipper does it all the time with little attention to tide.
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Old 06-17-2017, 09:35 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRENE;
We would like to explore Sooke Basin this weekend. I am concerned about shoaling...It looks like low tide Saturday afternoon will still be over +3 feet.
Jeff; if you get this in time, you are right about depth. I didn't check the tides yesterday because I knew you had.

Last night I talked to buddy who keeps his boat in Pedder for the summer. He checked and said "he'll be fine, not much tide in there today. Next weekend, different story." A link he sent me just for fun;
http://www.tides4fishing.com/ca/british-columbia/sooke

What Delfin said "follow the ranges."
You'll be fine.

Enjoy.
---------------------------------------
Dave;
"Convoluted;" always liked that word.
Now here's a convoluted explanation from our convoluted Gov...

On most Canadian coastal charts the surface
of lower low water, large tide, or LLWLT , has been adopted as chart datum, but the term " lowest normal tide, " or " LNT, " has been retained on the charts since it encompasses a variety of other choices for chart datum on some older charts.
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Old 06-18-2017, 01:08 AM   #13
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Sooke Basin

Thanks all, especially Hawg, for the information.

Getting into Sooke with the ranges (and the GPS, chart, cruising guide, MK I eyeball, etc.) was no challenge - as anticipated.

We found the channel from Sooke Harbor to Sooke Basin essentially as reported by Navionics - no noticible shoaling or deviation from published depths. Certainly, one can get in there with a much more substantial vessel. The aids were good and there just wasn't anything of concern.

Sooke Basin is a pretty area and we are glad we took a trip around the inside.

Sooke Harbor was also very scenic. There appears to be a nice anchorage just inside the spit, if you don't mind the fishing boat traffic (which was probably heavy today). You can see over the spit to the Olympics - just a beautiful spot.

Thanks again for everyone's assistance.

Cheers,

Jeff
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Old 06-18-2017, 01:21 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by IRENE;
Getting into Sooke with the ranges (and the GPS, chart, cruising guide, MK I eyeball, etc.) was no challenge - as anticipated.

Certainly, one can get in there with a much more substantial vessel. The aids were good and there just wasn't anything of concern.
Glad you went for it. I bet there were sailboats deeper 'n you in there, huh?
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:46 AM   #15
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For some reason, I have always thought that ranges were just the coolest thing ever since I was a kid. I don't have the occasion to use them that often but am always impressed by them when I do.
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Old 06-18-2017, 11:58 AM   #16
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For some reason, I have always thought that ranges were just the coolest thing ever since I was a kid.
Same here and for new students, ranges were almost as difficult to grasp as 60 D Street; until we went out at night.

It must have been a bit of a chore in the olden days, without all the fancy gadgets, to place those rigs.

BP (before people) the eastern end of Burrard Inlet (Vancouver) was like entering a narrow cave at night; absolute blackness.
Keith will remember.
For almost ever, there was a lighted range at the end of a dog leg that, at 0300, saved my latter parts many times.

AP, the lights became obscured and were relocated so now you run down range. It was funner the old way.

The ranges I like are the private, paint cans on a branch.
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Old 06-18-2017, 01:03 PM   #17
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Glad you went for it. I bet there were sailboats deeper 'n you in there, huh?
Indeed, there were a couple at one of the marinas. Also, the former HMCS COWICHAN was back in Cooper Cove. Apparently she draws 8 feet.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMCS_Cowichan_(MCB_162)

There was also a 43 Nordhavn in a sad state, probably with a story.

Thanks again for your support, Hawg. Glad you are back! Will look forward to meeting in Sidney...

Jeff
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Old 06-18-2017, 01:25 PM   #18
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Will look forward to meeting in Sidney...
That would be cool. Maybe hook up with a nice man named Tom at the same time.

Hey, maybe even get some flowers and crank the Mammas and Pappas to see if we can entice KOliver away from the commune for a bit. Not sure if Sidney cold handle it.
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Old 06-18-2017, 02:04 PM   #19
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That wold be cool. Maybe hook up with a nice man named Tom at the same time.

Hey, maybe even get some flowers and crank the Mammas and Pappas to see if we can entice KOliver away from the commune for a bit. Not sure if Sidney cold handle it.

HW

listening....
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