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Old 10-12-2012, 06:26 PM   #21
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If it were me I would give those the fuel tanks a really good look while the motor is out
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:59 PM   #22
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RickB wrote:

" . . . the people who do this sort of thing for a living are quite good at it and have frames and the rigging to do it safely. It is amazing what they can do."

I think that is probably the bottom line. They have seen similar situations, no doubt, and know how to handle it. Expensive for us, to be sure, but I do not mind paying an experienced boat repair person for his experience. (And lest I get flamed, I would gladly say "his or her," but so far I have not seen a grizzled old marine handyperson of the female persuasion).

John
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Old 10-13-2012, 10:19 AM   #23
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the people who do this sort of thing for a living are quite good at it and have frames and the rigging to do it safely. It is amazing what they can do.
Looks like once you get that big V8 block out, a trolley of some sort and 4-5 "able bodies" would necessary!
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Old 10-13-2012, 10:26 AM   #24
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I would be nervous reaching a jib crane on a forklift inside a door on a trawler to lift an engine block. One inch of tilting back at the forklift would possible equal a foot and a half at the end of the boom. I like the trolley type approach in Ricks pictures. I also wondered if a monorail set up would work to get the engine outside the house.
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Old 10-13-2012, 10:40 AM   #25
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the people who do this sort of thing for a living are quite good at it and have frames and the rigging to do it safely. It is amazing what they can do.
It seems the professionals also know how to do proper vessel protect. There must be 20 rolls of blue tape and at least a tree's worth of cardboard and plywood there plus some carpet in the pictures.
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Old 10-13-2012, 12:47 PM   #26
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The folks who do this work know all the tricks and pitfalls. They don't want to pay for damage that can be avoided and know how to prevent it. That particular job was a big one so the frame was specially constructed to fit the engine and the boat but most of the time for smaller engines an aluminum frame monorail type lift is used. A beam trolley carries the load and the frames are leapfrogged until the engine is out of the boat to a place it can be lifted.

The photos show the old engine going out in pieces but the rebuilt engine was more or less in one piece except for the oil pan. There was not a great deal of room to spare going out and even less coming back in. The beauty of metal boats is that you can usually find a place to weld or bolt pads and eyes in the overhead and rig several chainfalls and come-a-longs to move stuff.

Here are a couple more of another removal job:
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Old 10-13-2012, 01:20 PM   #27
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I would be nervous reaching a jib crane on a forklift inside a door on a trawler to lift an engine block. One inch of tilting of back at the forklift would possible equal a foot and a half at the end of the boom. I like the trolley type approach in Ricks pictures. I also wondered if a monorail set up would work to get the engine outside the house.
You use the boom to rig off of. It remains stationary. It is a common practice in industry to use forklift booms to pull pumps and such if a monorail is not available.

Rigging is both a skill and an art. However, pulling an engine out of a boat is a pretty simple job as far as rigging goes.
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Old 10-13-2012, 01:55 PM   #28
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Smile

Well I've done it on a Marine Trader 40 Europa. She had/has twin 120's that I needed to replace (I wont bore you with the details of why!) and basically the method has already been described.

Taking each engine in turn, lift the floor panels, erect an A-frame with block and tackle and lift engine to above floor level.
Replace the floor and lay under suspended engine either hardboard or ply on some old blankets.
Then lower engine and use wedges to keep upright and get a couple of strong guys to slide engine towards and near the rear door.
Get forklift (or telehandler in my case) with extension bar to get bar over engine and chain engine to bar.
Chosen lifting machine then lifts engine out slowly and carefully, no damage being caused!
Process repeated with next engine and installation is a reversal of extraction.

Whilst the engines were out I did indeed replace the starboard tank, I had to cut it out as it was too big to move in one piece and replaced with two tanks, mainly as it was easier to handle.

Apart from help moving the engine I pretty well did the rest of it on my own so it's no big deal just a lot of work that needs to be done carefully and safely!

'Hope this helps, I have some pics of tank being cut out and a couple of hazy pics (my son took as I was pushing engine out!) of engine being extracted if they're of interest.
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Old 10-13-2012, 05:50 PM   #29
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Not a MT, and a relatively simple extraction, but might possibly inspire an idea.





Harbor Freight pickup bed crane <$150. There are horror stories about the wire cable winch...I converted it to strap.
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Old 10-13-2012, 06:35 PM   #30
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I built an A frame out of 4"x6" tembers then used chain hoist to lift it out after I covered the floor with 3/4" osb. I also cut and placed 2/4"s between the stringers and the floor beams just as a precausion. I then mounted the engine on an engine stand and rolled it into the salon area where I disasembled it. As it turned out all it needed was new rings and gaskets. It was pulled because water had gotten in the rear cylinder, which cleaned up by honing it.
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Old 10-13-2012, 07:48 PM   #31
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When I did it:

I bought an engine crane at an auto parts store ($250), installed it over the engine hatch, stripped the engines, then called a guy with a truck mounted HIAB crane. The boat was in an accessible position on the parking lot of the marina, so he could position his truck where he wanted it. He was so good with the HIAB that my small crane was unnecessary. The Stb engine (furthest from the door on the port side) came up with transmission still attached, by swinging forward as it was lifted, then blocking and lowering it to the cabin sole, removing the transmission, turning 90 degrees and lifting it through the doorway. Port engine, as it was closer to the door, didn't have so much swing room so the trans had to come off in the bilge. Otherwise same process. The doorway is 27" wide. Without Heat Exch, exhaust riser, alt, the old engines were able to slip through with 1/4" to spare. The new were tighter, as they have Aftercoolers, so a piece of cardboard against the varnish on both sides took the squeeze and no damage was done.
Find a guy that is good with a HIAB. Ask around at marine mechanics. Someone will know of one.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:22 PM   #32
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On my prior boat with a Hercules D198ER four cylinder, we placed blocking at each side door with a railroad beam across, lift the engine, place the floor boards back, block the engine on the floor boards, and slide the engine out the door to the side deck and then off as you are able.
On our current boat, Ed Monk designed the boat with a full scope of open window area. In the 80's air condition on small boats was near non-existence so he designed a novel solution. He designed in to the roof a rectactular hatch that hinged up to allow air to flow in to the interior. The hatch is located directly over the engine.
Of course, with a Perkins 1-108 it can be picked up and out with four hands!

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Old 10-17-2012, 06:12 AM   #33
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The hatch is located directly over the engine.

Very common on commercial boats.

When lobster boats were more common with gas car engines , an engine swop was an overnight job.But most yards had a crane to work with.

A blown ebgine simply required a quick call to the junk yard for a donor. With keel cooling and dry stack, no marinization except swopping the electrics , and carb cover was done.
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Old 10-17-2012, 02:54 PM   #34
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Older GBs--- the woodies and the first batches of fiberglass boats--- have a hatch of sorts in the flying bridge sole that can be removed for straight-through access to the engine(s). Using it requires removing the teak decking on the flying bridge, and in the case of the fiberglass boats I believe an overlapping layer of fiberglass has to be cut. Our boat has this "hatch" but it's probably easier in terms of prep and rework to remove and install an engine through the side window and re-install the window than to access and use the hatch. This feature was eliminated not long after the switch from wood to fiberglass.
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Old 10-17-2012, 06:35 PM   #35
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Older GBs--- the woodies and the first batches of fiberglass boats--- have a hatch of sorts in the flying bridge sole that can be removed for straight-through access to the engine(s). Using it requires removing the teak decking on the flying bridge, and in the case of the fiberglass boats I believe an overlapping layer of fiberglass has to be cut. Our boat has this "hatch" but it's probably easier in terms of prep and rework to remove and install an engine through the side window and re-install the window than to access and use the hatch. This feature was eliminated not long after the switch from wood to fiberglass.
With fiberglass, you always have this option but not for the faint of heart.


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Old 10-18-2012, 09:31 AM   #36
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Thanks for all the great ideas...! Since my flybridge deck needs re-doing anyhow, I cut a hole in the roof to accommodate the engine with transmission and have a boom truck coming next week. Still a big mystery to me how MT-style trawlers get engines replaced without such complicated methods being employed. Rejoice if you never have to have yours pulled! Thanks again...
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Old 10-18-2012, 03:33 PM   #37
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Angelina had her engine and trans removed when the fuel tanks were replaced. They went into the saloon through the door. Engine and trans came out that way while they wrestled the fuel tanks out. The engine/trans sat on supports in the saloon while the tanks were fabricated. All wood interior was padded with foam backed cardboard. Excellent work from start to finish. Not fast but a quality job.

Didn't seem to be anything out of the ordinary to the boatyard.
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Old 10-18-2012, 07:35 PM   #38
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Just watched Larry M`s video of removing fuel tanks via the hull bottom. Soundtrack sounded like childbirth taking place.." push, push NOW...."
Is there a sequel putting the poor old Banks back together? BruceK
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Old 10-18-2012, 08:37 PM   #39
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I'm not sure why anyone would opt to cut the hull of a GB to remove fuel tanks. The original tanks in our boat were replaced by the previous owner and they were cut up in place, the small pieces removed, and they were replaced with smaller "cube" tanks that fit down through the main cabin sole into place without needing to even move the engines. I suspect the transmissions had to be removed or at least disconnected and lowered into the bilge but this seems a far smarter choice the cutting open a hull and then patching it back up again.

This has been discussed at some length on the GB owners forum with opinions split as to whether or not cutting the hull open to remove tanks and patching it back up again compromises the integrity of the hull. However the most experience shipwrights and ex-yard owners on the forum all seem to agree that it puts the integrity of the hull at risk and so is not a good idea.
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:20 PM   #40
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I'm not sure why anyone would opt to cut the hull of a GB to remove fuel tanks. The original tanks in our boat were replaced by the previous owner and they were cut up in place, the small pieces removed, and they were replaced with smaller "cube" tanks that fit down through the main cabin sole into place without needing to even move the engines. I suspect the transmissions had to be removed or at least disconnected and lowered into the bilge but this seems a far smarter choice the cutting open a hull and then patching it back up again.

This has been discussed at some length on the GB owners forum with opinions split as to whether or not cutting the hull open to remove tanks and patching it back up again compromises the integrity of the hull. However the most experience shipwrights and ex-yard owners on the forum all seem to agree that it puts the integrity of the hull at risk and so is not a good idea.
I would never cut the bottom of the boat, my question is...how did they reglass the inside of the patch when it is under the fuel tanks?
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