Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 06-26-2014, 09:35 PM   #1
Veteran Member
 
City: Baltimore Md
Country: usa
Vessel Name: Graceful
Vessel Model: Marine Trader
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 91
engine hours

I know there's no set answer but here I go. Can anyone say what would be too many hours on a engine? I know there are a lot of variables that come into play but was wondering how many would you walk away from. We're still looking for "our" perfect boat but some of the high hours are scaring us. Any opinions would be appreciated.
__________________
Advertisement

gonesailing13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014, 09:43 PM   #2
Guru
 
djmarchand's Avatar
 
City: East Greenwich, RI
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bella
Vessel Model: Mainship Pilot 34
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,875
How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

What kind of engines are you looking at? How have they been operated? What kind of boat are they in?

No one can answer that question without just a little bit of information. Then, who knows?

David
__________________

djmarchand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014, 09:43 PM   #3
Veteran Member
 
Cathy and David's Avatar
 
City: Hilton Head, SC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Irie Daze
Vessel Model: Albin 43 Sundeck
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 62
How many hours are scaring you? 3000?, 5000? 10,000? What do you consider high hours. This has been discussed many times here. It depends on the maintenance the engines have received. Also the HP to displacement ratio of the engines in question. I have 5000 on my Cummins 6BT 210 HP and feel they are just getting broke in. Too many variables to answer your question with a set number.
Cathy and David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014, 09:52 PM   #4
TF Site Team
 
Bay Pelican's Avatar
 
City: Chicago, IL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bay Pelican
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,781
One Lehman went for decades 24/7 as a ferry, engine was worn out at the end. Likely you won't find that on a pleasure boat. As others have said depends on the maintenance. All of this assumes a diesel engine.
__________________
Marty
Bay Pelican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014, 10:11 PM   #5
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Small Incentive
Vessel Model: Boston Whaler 130 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,784
There is no answer. Get a survey by someone very familiar with those engines. A quick red neck screening is to have them started up dead cold and see what kind of smoke they throw off, which is one of the first if not the first things an engine surveyor will do.
__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014, 10:21 PM   #6
Veteran Member
 
City: Baltimore Md
Country: usa
Vessel Name: Graceful
Vessel Model: Marine Trader
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 91
Sorry I should have given a little more info . Ford Lehman 2715E
120 hp
6000 hrs
not sure about maintenance

Not sure how many angels dance on the head of a pin. Must be a trick question.
gonesailing13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014, 11:20 PM   #7
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Small Incentive
Vessel Model: Boston Whaler 130 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,784
Might be good, might be bad.
__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 12:03 AM   #8
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,707
Don't use the hrs as a yardstick. Concentrate on the engine itself and what very experienced people can observe and test. Some people think engines can only make so many revolutions. The real world life expectancy of an engine is usually determined by how much has an engine can take in the form of abuse.

Check and test the engine in the known ways. The way some people treat engines 1000hrs would be too much. 5000hrs would be fine under ideal circumstances or common good maintenance. Compression tests, leakdown tests and oil analysis in addition to observations of a very experienced mechanic. Leaking oil or places that should be clean found found dirty ect. Of course you never know if an engine could have been run w no oil for a brief period of time. I've never seen on YW "forgot to put oil in it once but it's run fine since". Frequently what you need to know is missing information.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 12:12 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
City: Anacortes
Country: USA
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 301
500 hours on a 30yo boat would be terrifying and almost certainly a bad idea. 5000 hours on an engine capable of 10,000 might not be a bad choice. I'd look strongly at maintenance records, especially the past 5 years. I want to see use. I don't mind a few things breaking, so long as it is not indicative of a trend or condition. Records without repairs equals deferred maintenance.

Hours are best used to schedule your next oil change. Not much use for gauging engine condition.
ghost is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 02:10 AM   #10
Guru
 
City: Hotel, CA
Country: Fried
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost View Post
Hours are best used to schedule your next oil change. Not much use for gauging engine condition.


We have an early 1960's vintage Ford tractor used by the grounds staff that shows 6,000+ hours on the meter. The record indicate the hour meter broke in the mid 1980's and the tractor at the time was considered to be in such poor shape as to not warrant the replacement of the hour meter. Here it is 2014 and though we've been threatening to replace it forever, it still chugs along daily.

Last year we completely replaced a diesel with fewer than 800 hours on it... Catastrophic failure. Was a bummer but hey, crap happens.

How a diesel is maintained and used/abused is infinitely more important than an hour meter can indicate. Get a survey and use the perceived "high" hours as a negotiation chip in your favor.
__________________
Craig

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 08:09 AM   #11
Guru
 
High Wire's Avatar
 
City: Cape May, NJ and Englewood, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Irish Lady
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,598
Is the engine well kept or look like its been laying behind a garage for years? Is the boat worth a repower? IMHO most engines die from neglect, mis-use and equipment failures of pumps and heat exchangers than from normal wear.
__________________
Archie
1984 Monk 36 Hull #46
Englewood, FL and Cape May, NJ
High Wire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 09:01 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Jbear's Avatar
 
City: Anacortes
Country: US
Vessel Name: Adelante
Vessel Model: Shin Shing, Eagle 35'
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 127
Bob Smith said in his class that I took that the 120 Lehman starts really coming into its own around 5000 hours. As everyone says, maint., how used really determine the answer but I think the basic motor is solid and if taken care of can go a long way.

I have 5200 hours on mine and it runs great. If you do get the Lehman try and take Bobs class. It's worth it in my opinion.

Jeff
Jbear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 10:46 AM   #13
Guru
 
Phil Fill's Avatar
 
City: Everett Wa
Country: US
Vessel Name: Eagle
Vessel Model: Roughwater 58 pilot house
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,919
Spend the money and have the engine surveyed, couple hundred bucks. 6,000 I would be concern.
Phil Fill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 01:23 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
nemier's Avatar


 
City: North Vancouver
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: INFINITY ∞
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 62
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 190
What type (make / model) of boat is the engine in? This would help us determine what load the engine has been subjected to, what life it's lead.

To get between 10,000 - 20,000 hours, you really need to see under 25 HP per liter, and under 2000 RPM. I think the engine you are looking at runs at 46.6 HP/L @ 2500 RPM. This is not bad though, compared to modern engines where they run over 75 HP/L. approaching 2800-3000 RPM. Many High Output engines are trashed below 5000 hours, some a lot less than that, and they tend to suffer a lot of abuse too.

A photo is worth a thousand words. If we could see that, we could advise further. If the boat is well kept / clean / maintenance logs kept up, etc, then no way is the previous owner going to ignore the engines. This is good!

As suggested, you need to get an independent Engine Survey, with compression & oil analysis, etc carried out. It's not rocket science, a professional will know what the score is, no issues.
__________________
Andy & Julie Nemier
N62 INFINITY ∞
www.n62infinity.com
nemier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2014, 03:57 PM   #15
Guru
 
Irish Rambler's Avatar
 
City: NARBONNE
Country: FRANCE
Vessel Name: 'Snow Mouse.'
Vessel Model: BROOM FLYBRIDGE 42.
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 828
If it were me I would have the oil sampled. Check by hand if the engine is cold, turn it over and see if it fires immediately and smoothly on all 6 cylinders, all those old Lehman's smoke when cold so take it for a run and get it up to 80/90 degs. Let someone else drive the boat while you check for smoke, and what colour ? then open the throttle wide, it will smoke for maybe 5 mins then start to clear after 10 minutes, now check for smoke, ignore it if it's a wisp of black.
Check engine temps,no more than 100/105 c, now back to cruising speed, lift the floor and check for leaks.
If all OK back to idle and check the engine for 'hunting', if so needs the oil in the injector pump rack changed.
After all that if the boats in great shape you can get overhaul kits cheap as they still make those engines in Turkey.
2 very important point to note on those engines, always keep coolant mixture anti freeze all year round as it keeps the liner seals supple and lubricates the water pump, after a hard run let the engine idle for 5 minutes to relieve the internal thermal stresses before closing down.
Finally there's a great guy in England whose forgotten more about those engines than we'll ever know, he used to race them, his name is Mike Bellamy and his company is Lancingmarine.co.uk , he can still rebuild, or supply new Ford engine and all the spares for them.
Irish Rambler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2014, 12:12 AM   #16
Senior Member
 
Jbear's Avatar
 
City: Anacortes
Country: US
Vessel Name: Adelante
Vessel Model: Shin Shing, Eagle 35'
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 127
I would seriously check everything very carefully before taking the boat up to WOT for 10 minutes. Most Lehman owners don't run their boats at 2500 RPMs too much of the time. If this boat has sat or if the coolers haven't been cleaned or replaced you run a real chance of overheating it and possibly hurting it. I can run mine up for a minute or two but I feel comfortable as I have shot baseline thermals on it, changed the coolers, changed the oil lines to 5/8" lines, checked/changed oils, etc. yes you should be able to hit WOT but if you really like the boat don't blow it up on your test run.

Jeff
Jbear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2014, 10:50 AM   #17
Guru
 
City: Full Time Cruising East Coast
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Meridian
Vessel Model: Krogen-42
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 755
This is what multiple oil analysys reports can show, I'm a happy camper. I had gone 247 hrs over 4 months between changes as I was in the Bahamas. This is from Blackstone

--------------------------
TERRY: This is a perfect report for your 120 hp engine! Metals look fine for 247 hours of oil use, with wear
metals holding steady or decreasing compared to the 2/03/14 report. Less wear on a longer oil change
interval is an excellent indication that this engine is running well with no mechanical problems in the works.
No contaminants were found in this oil, and the air and oil filters did a fine job of keeping silicon and
insolubles under control. This engine's going strong at 6,650 total hours!
__________________
-------------------------
Terry
Meridian
KK-42097
meridian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2014, 10:58 AM   #18
Guru
 
MYTraveler's Avatar
 
City: West Coast
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 850
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Fill View Post
Spend the money and have the engine surveyed, couple hundred bucks. 6,000 I would be concern.
The hours wouldn't concern me nearly as much as the age, which is a measure of the risk that the engine was not properly used and maintained throughout that time. I am of the view that a naturally aspirated engine that is properly maintained and used frequently can easily last 20,000 to 30,000 hours. Some commercial applications are getting that out of QSM 11's (which are relatively high hp and turbo'd).
MYTraveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2014, 11:09 AM   #19
Guru
 
City: gulf coast
Country: pinellas
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,197
If the engine can not reach rated WOT Rpm during a brief test do not run it at Wot for any time especially Ten minutes.
bayview is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2014, 11:13 AM   #20
Guru
 
City: gulf coast
Country: pinellas
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,197
A WOT test is intended to see if it is propped correctly, runs properly and doesn't overheat. If all is well only running long enough to see the temp stabilize is sufficient.
__________________

bayview is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012