Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 03-21-2016, 01:51 PM   #61
Senior Member
 
waddenkruiser's Avatar
 
City: Southern Baltic
Country: Europe
Vessel Name: S°marken
Vessel Model: AMS 40'
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
I usually lift my saloon floor engine hatch and do a quick peek. In 5 seconds I can scan fuel level (poly tanks), belt tension, drip pan for excessive oil/fuel leaks/coolant leaks and bilge water.

Usually that covers what the engine instruments/sound isn't telling me.

We do more or less the same, but not more than once every 4 hrs. We have the ease of an additional front door from the front cabin: just open it and look in the ER.
If everything looks and sounds fine and the instrument readings are as they are expected, I never entered the ER (which would be on hands and knees) ...


best regards / med venlig hilsen
wadden
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
best regards / med venlig hilsen
Wadden
waddenkruiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2016, 01:53 PM   #62
Senior Member
 
Xlantic's Avatar
 
City: Mahˇn, Menorca
Country: Spain
Vessel Name: Halcyon
Vessel Model: 1973 Grand Banks 50
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by caltexflanc View Post
Xlantic, your ER access is very much the same as that on my old Hatteras. I hadn't realized there were GB models designed like that; really a nice set up, isn't it?
I believe only the GB50 was built with the central companionway bisecting two separate engine rooms. The GB52, which came out later, had a traditional engine room and the aft stateroom had a separate staircase from the saloon.

As in in everything, there are tradeoffs. On the one hand, my GB50 has two staterooms (the main one being quite large) plus a complete head (with tub!) aft of the engine room with easy access and connected to the two forward staterooms. Having a second staircase for the aft stateroom, as in the GB52, would have taken up quite a bit of space.

On the other hand, the companionway in my boat does take room away from what would otherwise be the engine room. The engines actually sit quite low relative to the engine room floor so while there is stand-up room one still needs to crouch to work on the engines.

But, for engine room checks while underway, my configuration is great!
__________________

__________________
Gilberto
Xlantic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2016, 01:55 PM   #63
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,856
For some, restful comes from viligence of the highest possible degree. Vigilance isn't fatiguing unless stress is involved...stress for me comes with worry.

Especially for those of us it is easy to do....when I deliver or run boats commercially and can't do reasonable checks...my concern is definitely heightened.

I spent 35 years assisting people in trouble....vigilance may have helped a pretty good number of them.....many had nice boats with complete sensor packages except cameras.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2016, 02:06 PM   #64
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
I've never flown a plane but I would think the engine in a plane is more critical than one in a boat.


My point is, why check the engine every hour or two while underway? Is it really necessary or is it just something to do?
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2016, 02:22 PM   #65
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,856
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesK View Post
I've never flown a plane but I would think the engine in a plane is more critical than one in a boat.


My point is, why check the engine every hour or two while underway? Is it really necessary or is it just something to do?
Things seem to go wrong on boats way more than planes and cars...maybe environment, but in my opinion....just poorer quality in execution.

I probably conducted 500 to 750 engine peeks in the last 4 round trips to Fl. I only found 3 issues that most here would consider serious issues. One could have resulted in fire/explosion from a pin hole in an injector line that atomized fuel. That one alone was worth every check...no other sensor was picking it up and it was so fine I couldn't see it by eye, let alone with a camera.

That was with only about 1000 hrs on a rebuilt engine that looked great in every respect.

I have had many more in all my water experience....so I do what I do based on my experience an training...and one more time...for a 5 second check every hour or two...no real skin off my nose...roll your own dice.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2016, 03:52 PM   #66
Guru
 
JDCAVE's Avatar
 
City: Lions Bay, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Phoenix Hunter
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 (1985)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,602
I ran an salmon assessment program that involved chartering probably 30 or 40 different commercial salmon fishing vessels: Seiners, Trollers and gillnetters. Probably 300-500 vessel-days/year over 35 years. We generally chartered the best fishermen who had the best equipment, all very well maintained. I cannot recall a single instance of failure of the engine or running gear. No fuel related issues. The occasional and rare breakdowns were related to failure of hydraulic equipment (hoses, drums, etc.). At no time did I ever see any of these guys do engine checks while underway or during the fishing operation. None had engine room cameras. All checks were done prior to leaving the dock.

The exception were 3 particular fishermen of note. They would not have been my first choice for fishermen, if others were available. Their vessels were not well maintained and on the particular occasions in question, they never left the dock.

I try and keep my equipment properly maintained and inspected prior to leaving the dock.

Jim
JDCAVE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2016, 04:57 PM   #67
Guru
 
cappy208's Avatar
 
City: Cape Cod
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slip Aweigh
Vessel Model: Prairie 29
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,131
From a different experience set, some reiteration of some of the more notable comments (from my opinion):

Recording temps, pressures at running speed is important because unless you are keeping a constant eye (as in manned ERs) you wouldn't know or realize the difference by memory. One previous comment noted: "that after several seasons running he didn't have to write down anymore, because he 'knew' the frame of numbers he was looking for." That works too!

The IR thermogun is really good for sensing temps (again, as long as you have records to compare to) I shoot my temps at water pump bearings, the steel boss ring on the aft end of the heat exchanger, the water injection ebow, the aft end of the gear cooler, and the inlet and outlet of the Generator heat exchanger. Knowing the Delta on the generator lets me know water is flowing. A reduction of difference in delta shows less seawater (blocked strainer or impeller)

Idiot lights aren't nicknamed idiot lights for nothing!

Even my bilge has a (loud and obnoxious) audible high water alarm.

Regarding entering Er space. I shut all my seacocks; But especially the Main engine seacock every time I leave the boat. This makes me have to go down, and while I am crawling I get to look the place over. Both before I start up, and then again when I put her to bed.

I don't leave the seacocks open even while on the boat. They are shut off when the engines off when I go to sleep (so I CAN sleep)

About running ER peeks. When I run long hours, I look. For a couple hour run, just listen to the noises, and monitor gauges.
cappy208 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2016, 05:51 PM   #68
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Small Incentive
Vessel Model: Boston Whaler 130 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,783
For all the no ER check rationalizers, I'll dig out my regularly scheduled placement of one of my favorite quotes, which came in a comment by Mario Vittone in gcaptain about the captain of the ill fated "Bounty" replica:

"He had clearly confused the lack of failure with success, and may have begun to truly believe his own advice."

Should be engraved on the pages of all these types of forums.
__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2016, 08:01 PM   #69
Guru
 
JDCAVE's Avatar
 
City: Lions Bay, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Phoenix Hunter
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 (1985)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,602
There was an interesting thread a while ago about managing worry. The OP confessed that he was constantly worrying about his vessel, whether all was right with it, whether he had attended to every detail. His worry was to the point of obsession, he confessed. I must confess that I too worry about vessel maintenance, whether I have covered all the bases of preventative maintenance. But...at some point I have to manage that worry and say "Enough already". So like Ski suggested, I've done all the preventative maintenance and done the initial checks around the engine, fluid levels leaks etc. But if I'm constantly checking everything, every hour, I'm worrying. And I'm not enjoying the ride. So, if that's what I need to do and I'm negligent, it's time to sell the boat. Like I said, the people I know who make their living on the water aren't doing hourly ER checks, they are enjoying the ride.


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum
JDCAVE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2016, 09:02 PM   #70
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDCAVE View Post
Like I said, the people I know who make their living on the water aren't doing hourly ER checks, they are enjoying the ride.
Well, the people I know who are captains and engineers on pleasure boats do regularly check the ER.

We check constantly on gauges and cameras and every two hours in person. There seems to be this assumption that we're worrying, but we aren't. Also there seems to be an assumption that regular checks of the ER will somehow ruin the ride. It doesn't do that to us. In fact, a rather normal pattern will be to go check, then stop by the head, then the galley, and bring back snacks and beverages for oneself and the person left behind at the helm. It's not as if the check itself takes a lot of time. Because of all the gauges and cameras, the physical check is very brief.

Now, for those of you who checks every couple of hours would take away all the pleasure of boating, I certainly wouldn't push you to check.

There is also a huge difference in where various members here cruise and the type of cruising.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2016, 09:48 PM   #71
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,856
Using commercial fishermen all the time as a comparison can go both ways. Sure there are a lot of good ones... but there are a lot I looked for and never found and others that I pulled from lifer aft or the water.

Wonder how many would still be with us with a different attitude about safety in general.

I still don't get it...I would worry more if I DIDN'T look at least every 2 hrs.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2016, 10:21 PM   #72
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Using commercial fishermen all the time as a comparison can go both ways. Sure there are a lot of good ones... but there are a lot I looked for and never found and others that I pulled from lifer aft or the water.

Wonder how many would still be with us with a different attitude about safety in general.

I still don't get it...I would worry more if I DIDN'T look at least every 2 hrs.
I just think of all the lobster fishermen who have been lost at sea. It was a part of the industry that you knew a certain percentage of you would die doing the job.

And, no, engine checks were not their major issue, but safety sure was. I don't know how it is today.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2016, 10:33 PM   #73
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 5,076
I have found this discussion to be very informative. As is common, there have been a wide range of very different approaches to engine monitoring. I have gained some small amount of insight and ideas from each of you. Thank you.

I would hope however, that the discussion would not come to arguing that some are either obsessive compulsive on one hand or almost criminally negligent on the other.
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2016, 11:28 PM   #74
vp1
Veteran Member
 
City: Boston, MA
Country: United States
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhays View Post
I would hope however, that the discussion would not come to arguing that some are either obsessive compulsive on one hand or almost criminally negligent on the other.
Indeed, there's no need to choose. When I own a boat, I'll aspire to be both!
vp1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2016, 12:10 AM   #75
Senior Member
 
Jay N's Avatar
 
City: Edmonds, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: WESTERLY
Vessel Model: 1974 Pacific Trawler 37
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 387
caltexflanc: ""He had clearly confused the lack of failure with success, and may have begun to truly believe his own advice."

Also one of my favorite all-time quotes.
Jay N is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2016, 09:03 AM   #76
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
I posted that I seldom check the engine while underway, just each morning. I should add that we seldom run more than seven or eight hours per day, often less and I am a person who is pretty in tune with what's going on around me. A change in sound or feel will send me to check on things right away.


Obviously, each of us make our choices based on many factors and of course there are some folks who could stare at a failing engine for hours and never notice a problem.
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2016, 10:33 AM   #77
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 5,076
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesK View Post
Obviously, each of us make our choices based on many factors and of course there are some folks who could stare at a failing engine for hours and never notice a problem.
I am afraid that is a good description of me. One of the reasons I am asking so many, pretty elemental, questions.
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2016, 10:43 AM   #78
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,856
Silly things like a small drip from a hose that could be tightened to stop the drip could save an alternator or starter either shortly or later in the trip.

You can't hear it or necessarily see it soon enough in instrumentation or even notice it on a camera.

So I take peeks regularly when I can, between 2 to 3 hours. Will I catch everything ? No, but I have caught enough to convince me the checks are worth it.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2016, 10:45 AM   #79
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhays View Post
I am afraid that is a good description of me. One of the reasons I am asking so many, pretty elemental, questions.
Let me assure you that would have been me and is the reason we were trained in how to do the checks and we follow a check list to make sure we do what we should. I know most here have worked with engines their entire adult life and some before even. We are the opposite so have had to get training even on the basics. Now we still are not capable, nor do we have any desire, of doing the mechanical work most others here do.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2016, 11:31 AM   #80
Guru


 
City: Full-time onboard
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Trawler
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 937
The thing you've got to ask yourself is, can you imagine someone saying, "gosh, I wish I hadn't done that engine room check"? And yet it's very easy to imagine someone saying, "If I had only done that engine room check..." before something simple turned into something difficult (if not dangerous).

I dislike buddy boating. But when someone asks us if they can go alongside us overnight, one of the questions I always ask is how often they do engine room checks while underway. If they look at me like I'm nuts, there's no way we're going along with them.
__________________

Jeffrey S is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012