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Old 11-11-2013, 04:26 PM   #21
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Well, for one I'm grateful that you had the experience and shared it just the way you did, because for a large percent of us that go aground, the circumstances and decisions involved probably wouldn't vary that much (save the difference of a flood tide). I don't think that Capt. Tom understood that you were heading TO BEER instead of FROM BEER which, no doubt, had a great deal of influence on your decision to call for the Tow right away. Just curious thought....did anyone stop by to lend a hand?
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Old 11-11-2013, 05:17 PM   #22
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I don't think that Capt. Tom understood that you were heading TO BEER instead of FROM BEER which, no doubt, had a great deal of influence on your decision to call for the Tow right away.
Yeah Larry, and he nearly made it , too. He was within sight of the beer. He was near one of my favorite anchorages just inside Trappe Creek.
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Old 11-11-2013, 06:02 PM   #23
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[QUOTE=psneeld;190967]

"For all posters...be aware that travelling the NJ ICW after Oct 15th you may encounter areas where navigation buoys are pulled, lights are removed from daymarks and bridges are allowed to close till morning after a given time in the evening...I think it's outrageous!!!"

Why on earth would you do that? Surely the buoys are pretty well indestructible once they are in position.

Who is responsible for the overseeing the upkeep of your navigational markers etc. Is it a Federal, State or local responsibility?
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Old 11-11-2013, 06:11 PM   #24
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[QUOTE=Andy G;190998]
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Originally Posted by psneeld View Post

"For all posters...be aware that travelling the NJ ICW after Oct 15th you may encounter areas where navigation buoys are pulled, lights are removed from daymarks and bridges are allowed to close till morning after a given time in the evening...I think it's outrageous!!!"

Why on earth would you do that? Surely the buoys are pretty well indestructible once they are in position.

Who is responsible for the overseeing the upkeep of your navigational markers etc. Is it a Federal, State or local responsibility?
No actually..buoys are damaged and lost all the time without ice dragging them to who knows where...also the lights atop steel daymarks are damages from the vibration of moving ice past the poles...my gripe is ice is at least 2 months away and there's still a lot of boating activity including commercial traffic.

The USCG maintains buoys, day mark lights and is responsible for making sure bridges spanning navigable waterways meet their requirements..

People laugh when I tell them the USCG at the national level really doesn't care about or understand the recreational boater...

You tell me...based on letting people run aground due to lack of buoys and getting stuck with no real good anchorages and marinas in some places to spend the night because they are trapped by bridges or the ICW is too shallow to navigate...do they really care about us?
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Old 11-11-2013, 06:28 PM   #25
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I'm going to read parts of this thread to several in my family who simply do not understand why I am so paranoid of shoal waters and do my damnedest to avoid them.
I'm going to follow Art's lead and do the same thing. I'm tired of hearing "why do we always go to the out side of the 5mph buoy when it's so much closer to go towards the beach?"
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Old 11-11-2013, 06:36 PM   #26
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Whoaaaaa on the salvage, soft groundings and such....

Any tow company that has to work 4+ hours on a tow could have easily called it salvage if you wanted off...peril or not...they could have charged you for it despite being a tow member.

The difference in Sea Tow and Boat US is how the franchise pay is set up. Sea Tow franchises pocket the majority of member dues while Boat US it all goes to their National Org. No Sea Tow franchise owner is gonna let his captain pull on you for 4+ hours...the boat will come, assess and leave it it ain't gonna happen. Boat US franchises will tend to stay many times and pull, because all their time is billed back to their National HQ. So the longer they stay, the more money they make.
Sounds like Boat US is much better deal for boat owner... correct??
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Old 11-11-2013, 06:44 PM   #27
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Not trying to be a Monday-morning quarterback, just curious why you didn't wait for the tide to (gently) float you off? I'm only asking because it seems like it would be a good option, as opposed to dragging it across the bar after the tide had already dropped quite a bit. If it was two hours before low at grounding, she should float free in 4-5 hours, right?
Good comment CaptTom. Here are the variables that went into the decision. The predicted high tide was 2047. Tides are 1.5 to 2 feet so I would need all the tide change and MAYBE could get off. With daylight savings it was dark at 1700 so it would be very dark when I would have a chance to try to get off myself. The wind was blowing 10-15 kts and would drive me toward the point unless I set an anchor. That fact was the real tie breaker. I didnt know about the rock until the last minute. Most of the bottom here is mud. I could see the bottom all around the boat and it was mud and oyster shells.

He only had to pull me about 30 yards before I had a foot under the keel.
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Old 11-11-2013, 07:44 PM   #28
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Sounds like Boat US is much better deal for boat owner... correct??
Not really...they don't have the National, franchise, captain all making sure the other is taking the best care of the customer...Sea Tow is a model of checks and balances.

A good example in my area...

Boat US Guys complain that Sea Tow Guys don't want to go out and assist customers that are in trouble...they think that Sea Tow while dispatching their boats but still trying to get the boat owner to try a few thing to get running again is shirking their responsibility...is it? If Sea Tow talks you through getting your boat running again before their boat gets there..everyone goes away happy. If you have to wait for the boat US Boat that's getting paid by the hour from national HQ...who wins there? Behind the scenes is a little complicated and personality driven so I am speaking in a gross generality frame.

I'm not saying all of it applies to every franchise..but the Sea Tow model more closely resembles real insurance...pockets membership money if not needed, helps you avoid claims though service and education (like Boat US)..and give good service when really needed. Boat US franchises only make monety when their boats are underway so it's really in their best interest if you DO break down.

Hey there's greats and pirates on both side in some areas..most are just good small businessmen and decent captains all trying to do a good job...so both are only as good as the guy who comes out to help.

I think both organizations are grssly misunderstood by the average boater as well as the difference between assistance and salvage...both companies try to explain it on their web sites for those that are interested.

In the long run...between both companies and the USCG...in some areas...if you get into trouble...you are fortunate that there's that many resources headed your way!
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Old 11-11-2013, 07:51 PM   #29
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Good comment CaptTom. Here are the variables that went into the decision. The predicted high tide was 2047. Tides are 1.5 to 2 feet so I would need all the tide change and MAYBE could get off. With daylight savings it was dark at 1700 so it would be very dark when I would have a chance to try to get off myself. The wind was blowing 10-15 kts and would drive me toward the point unless I set an anchor. That fact was the real tie breaker. I didnt know about the rock until the last minute. Most of the bottom here is mud. I could see the bottom all around the boat and it was mud and oyster shells.

He only had to pull me about 30 yards before I had a foot under the keel.
Not sure if that franchise will do it...but like in my one post...you can request the guy come back when the tide IS higher and pull and lead you to safe water, marina or home slip if possible. Some places may not do it..but the two owners I have worked for would do any of what I mentioned to make a customer happy.
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Old 11-11-2013, 10:35 PM   #30
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Thanks for starting this thread, Dave. Many of us have been there, felt that anguish, banged our heads and wonder why we even took the boat out that day! But the great boating experiences over the next weeks and months remind you why you do this!

Hopefully you got by with just an impeller and a tow delay. Please keep us posted.
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Old 11-11-2013, 11:29 PM   #31
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Ran aground six times during my sailboating days (no assistance requested or provided). Four times one night. Always during rising tides (I'm blessed). Last time had to lay an anchor to keep from being pushed on the beach. That's not counting dragging the keel through the mud in the Petaluma River/Slough and Napa River with the Coot. I appreciate having (by design) keel-protected propeller and rudder.

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Old 11-12-2013, 04:50 PM   #32
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Wasted Impeller

Here is what happens with just 15 minutes with no water on the impeller.The vanes are not even touching the casing anymore.
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Old 11-12-2013, 05:37 PM   #33
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Thanks for sharing. Burnt impeller is a probability. I did that one day on a previous boat when I launched at the start of the season. My new rule... when the intake is off the keys are hooked onto the intake handle. If I'm so stupid as to go into the engine room and get the keys without opening the seacock... well let's hope I'm not THAT stupid or you all would be wise to avoid me on the water .

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Old 11-12-2013, 05:43 PM   #34
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... My new rule... when the intake is off the keys are hooked onto the intake handle. ...
My answer/reminder:

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Old 11-12-2013, 06:17 PM   #35
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I like that solution!

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Old 11-12-2013, 08:11 PM   #36
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On my throttle/gear shift controls I have two Turks-head rope rings... Red is on the side my red markers should be on -- helps, especially at inlets where things swap. The blue one (wish it were green) is on one of the spokes for my wheel when the seacock is closed after shut-down. Normally it's on the opposite knob from the Red channel marker, so for me it's a visual clue. I need those. Remove the blue and open the seacock for the engine. Simple.
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Old 05-20-2014, 07:29 AM   #37
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Follow up report on grounding

This is the update to the grounding we had in the fall. The props were the only thing damaged and I believe that occured when I tried to power off the bar I landed on. The bottom had oyster shells in the mud. Luckly I have a shiny new set staged as spares. Now I just have to find a good prop shop so I can have spares ready for the next time.
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Old 05-20-2014, 07:56 AM   #38
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Whoaaaaa on the salvage, soft groundings and such....

Any tow company that has to work 4+ hours on a tow could have easily called it salvage if you wanted off...peril or not...they could have charged you for it despite being a tow member.

The difference in Sea Tow and Boat US is how the franchise pay is set up. Sea Tow franchises pocket the majority of member dues while Boat US it all goes to their National Org. No Sea Tow franchise owner is gonna let his captain pull on you for 4+ hours...the boat will come, assess and leave it it ain't gonna happen. Boat US franchises will tend to stay many times and pull, because all their time is billed back to their National HQ. So the longer they stay, the more money they make.

Boat US basic membership that covers $50 or so will barely let you get through a phone call to them...you have to get towing insurance if you want to ever be towed/ungrounded for free.

I left at sunset yesterday to unground a 45 foot power cat. The site was about 7 miles away through some long no wake zones....before I left I told my boss that the chances of me getting him off based on his position was not likely, but we go anyway...like most/all franchises. Sure enough, he was hard aground and I would be stuck if I stayed more than a few minutes. The professional captain aboard and I discussed his exit route and by the time was all said and done...we decided that I needed to come back near high tide which was well after midnight.

I went back earlier after studying the tide cycle, pulled him off and across all the sandbars till we were in deep channels leading to a marina. Unfortunately it was shortly after midnight and the ICW bridge was unmanned and we had to reverse course southbound on the ICW several miles...running the unmarked channels (because the USCG pulled the channel buoys for the winter) and headed to the next town south where I got him tied up at a marina.

The whole ordeal as far as boat towing insurance could have stopped back when I showed up and decided he had to wait for the next tide...that's what membership usually covers. A non member would have paid the franchise I work for $700 for me to show up and tell him what I knew when I was safe back on my trawler before ever leaving the dock...ungrounding wasn't gonna happen with the rapidly falling tide. As it turns out...I did the return trip as agreed upon, soft ungrounded the Cat and led him to a safe dock (slightly outside my area of coverage) and the bill to him was zero, as a non member he would have paid $1940.

For all posters...be aware that travelling the NJ ICW after Oct 15th you may encounter areas where navigation buoys are pulled, lights are removed from daymarks and bridges are allowed to close till morning after a given time in the evening...I think it's outrageous!!! There are still local here that need those services let alone any travelers that may have no idea that the government would abandon part of the US intracoastal system...sorta like shutting down bridges, tolls and lights on the US Highway system without notice.
Boating in Little Egg and Tuckerton (NJ) I can say your statement about the NJ ICW buoys being pulled early is 100% correct. Many of us still cruise well into December. The US Boats guy and the SeaTow guy in Little Egg are great. They usually are on the scene of accidents while the USCG is still asking their repetitive questions.....
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