Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 05-13-2017, 05:15 PM   #1
Guru
 
Xsbank's Avatar
 
City: Duncan Cove, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Vancouver Shipyards Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,342
Emergency Pump

I have an engine-driven emergency bilge pump which needs attention. The impeller has not been replaced...ever? The clutch lever went "sproing" too. The outlet hose is perished. An impeller is somewhere north of $400 and who knows what the parts for the clutch are?

So, I am buying a Honda pump, 16,000 gallons/hour (I assume that's US not Imperial) and it will live in a box on the deck. I will install a Cam lock on the deck and I will just have to hook up the hose and pull the cord to start it to pump out a flood. Advertised as self-priming.

The emergency pump requires me to go to the engine room and lift a floorboard and throw the lever. The Honda can all be done from top sides. Plus, I can use it as a barge pump if anyone else has an issue and a fire-pump too (there is a dedicated fire pump already onboard that I have only used against rotten jet skis!).

It can also be used with the engine not running.

What do you think?
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
"...Tongue tied and twisted, just an earthbound misfit..."

Don't believe everything that you think.
Xsbank is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 05:44 PM   #2
Guru
 
High Wire's Avatar
 
City: Cape May, NJ and Englewood, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Irish Lady
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,425
Thumbs up for Honda pumps! 16000 GPH, whats not to like? Even if its only half that in real life, its more than 2 - 55 gal drums per minute. Run it loaded every few weeks, flush it with fresh water, and use stabilized non-ethanol gas.
I would also be worried about the old pump seizing up and melting off the drive belt. Could you eliminate it?
__________________

__________________
Archie
1984 Monk 36 Hull #46
Englewood, FL and Cape May, NJ
High Wire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 06:07 PM   #3
Guru
 
AusCan's Avatar
 
City: Adelaide
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Kokanee
Vessel Model: Cuddles 30 Pilot House Motor Sailer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,931
It would be worth checking on what the maximum suction head pressure is. It may be "self priming" with water level 3 feet below the pump but no chance at pulling 6 feet of suction head pressure. If it is close to the maximum, consider installing a foot valve and simple priming system as a backup. Suction pressure diminishes rapidly with relatively minor impeller wear.
AusCan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 06:12 PM   #4
Guru
 
twistedtree's Avatar
 
City: Gloucester, MA
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,088
Sounds pretty good. Do you have a place to store the suction hose? Unlike the outlet hose which can fold flat, the suction hose will be more rigid and I expect a bit trickier to store.

Also check the fine print on the self-priming feature. I have two Pacer pumps which are widely used on fishing boats. One for the anchor wash, and the other as an emergency bilge pump. They are self-priming, but only if the pump chamber is initially full of water. So it's self-priming after you have primed it. When you shut it down, enough water remains in the pump body to get it going again, so the self-priming claim isn't a complete joke, but can be a distraction if you are trying to get it going quickly when it's dry, and wondering why it's not priming.

A friend came up with a really good idea for keeping the pump ready to go. Fill it with polypropylene glycol (RV anti freeze). That won't evaporate like water, and will leave the pump ready to go.
__________________
www.MVTanglewood.com
twistedtree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 08:06 PM   #5
Guru
 
Xsbank's Avatar
 
City: Duncan Cove, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Vancouver Shipyards Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,342
That's all good information, according to the brochure, the suction head is 7.5 meters. I will ask the dealer on Monday to clarify the self-prime claim but that sounds like a great idea, to put the RV stuff in it.

Storing the suction hose will be a bit of a challenge as it's pvc and normally I would hide it on the roof. I don't want it in the lazarette as it will take up too much space but it has to be shaded.
__________________
"...Tongue tied and twisted, just an earthbound misfit..."

Don't believe everything that you think.
Xsbank is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 08:54 PM   #6
Guru
 
City: Between Oregon and Alaska
Country: US
Vessel Name: Charlie Harper
Vessel Model: Wheeler Shipyard 83'
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 540
Many of the suction heads have a flapper valve so prefilling the hose will hold until startup. Some people, if you have room, plumb in the suction line in thick wall (schedule 80) plastic pipe. I use a positive displacement pump that doubles as a fire pump and can reach 200psi. It does wonders on jet skis and the like.
Lepke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 08:57 PM   #7
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepke View Post
... I use a positive displacement pump that doubles as a fire pump and can reach 200psi. It does wonders on jet skis....
For sinking them?
__________________
BruceK
Island Gypsy 36 Europa "Doriana"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 09:14 PM   #8
Guru
 
Xsbank's Avatar
 
City: Duncan Cove, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Vancouver Shipyards Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,342
You are not allowed to use a potato cannon on them but the fire hose keeps them at bay!

A VERY good idea using pipe instead of hose! Thank you!
__________________
"...Tongue tied and twisted, just an earthbound misfit..."

Don't believe everything that you think.
Xsbank is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 09:21 PM   #9
Guru
 
HopCar's Avatar


 
City: Miami Florida
Vessel Name: Possum
Vessel Model: Ellis 28
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,371
If it is the type of pump I think it is, it will self prime as long as there is water in the pump head. Not really true self priming pump like a positive displacement pump would be. I would worry that the water in the head would evaporate over time. If your good about testing the pump on a regular basis, this isn't an issue.

As it's gasoline powered, you'll need to run it often to be sure the carb hasn't gummed up.

On that subject, I hate small gasoline engines that sit without use. If you find you're having carb problems, convert the engine to run on propane. My home emergency generator only gets run once a year at the beginning of hurricane season. It hasn't failed to start in close to twenty years. I've never put gasoline in it, only propane.
__________________
Parks Masterson
www.hopkins-carter.com
HopCar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2017, 09:49 PM   #10
Guru
 
Xsbank's Avatar
 
City: Duncan Cove, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Vancouver Shipyards Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,342
That's a good idea for a stationary pump but I anticipate that this one will get moved about. I had intended gasoline with a stabilizer but I will have to see how that works. I could get a much smaller propane bottle to make it more portable. Another good point, thank you!
__________________
"...Tongue tied and twisted, just an earthbound misfit..."

Don't believe everything that you think.
Xsbank is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 12:02 AM   #11
Guru
 
HopCar's Avatar


 
City: Miami Florida
Vessel Name: Possum
Vessel Model: Ellis 28
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,371
If you are going to consider propane, I've figured out from playing with propane Outboards that it takes one pound of propane to produce 2.5 hp for an hour. It may not hold true for an engine that wasn't designed from the start to run on propane, but it's probably close. That will give you a starting point to calculate how much propane you would need.

Another advantage of propane in an application like this is that you can store it forever without it going bad.
__________________
Parks Masterson
www.hopkins-carter.com
HopCar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 12:34 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
wwestman's Avatar
 
City: Bellingham, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Excellent Adventure
Vessel Model: 1995 Jefferson Ker Shine 45
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 111
My only experience with that type (not brand) is someone did not flush the salt water out of the pump after using and let it sit. Next time it was used a hole had appeared in the pump body rendering it useless. Check the recommendations for 'pickling' the pump part after use.
wwestman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 12:43 AM   #13
Guru
 
City: Doha
Country: Qatar
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 636
How often do you fight fires on your or others' boats? Is your boat a harbor tug? Is this Honda pump really a practical thing to be carrying around for your situation?

How about installing a new engine driven pump and piping it as a washdown and fire pump so it serves three purposes. That way it gets used instead of rotting away for decades.
makobuilders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 04:16 AM   #14
Guru
 
LaBomba's Avatar
 
City: Beaverton, Ontario
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Airswift
Vessel Model: Ontario Yachts Great Lakes 33
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 787
Xsbank, as has been stated in other posts where small engines/outboards are used infrequently, just try to shut off the gas supply and let the motor run out of fuel before layup. This will prevent the carb from gumming up. You still have to keep stabilizer in the fuel but prevents a lot of issues. I do this with my small gas generator and snowblower and have had no issues since I started this procedure.
__________________
Allan & Ann
Airswift
LaBomba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 05:44 AM   #15
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,352
It's what the vast majority of assistance towers use and smaller versions dropped by the USCG.

All true about stabilizing the fuel, running it every 2 weeks or so, spraying it down with corrosion protectorant, draining and sloshing some antifreeze with corrosion inhibitors around in the pump body.

While propane sounds nice, if you have to use it in an emergency for awhile, can you carry enough fuel and would getting fuel brought to you by someone might determine which is better?

Last, some including the USCG mount a small hand pump on top to help prime....make it a snap to get going...sometimes that self priming function seems to take forever when you need it fast.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 06:26 AM   #16
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,197
The easiest way to have fresh fuel for a gas unit is either non ethanol fuel from a gas station,
or aircraft fuel 100LL from a local small airport.

The old heavy steel containers the Army uses is far better than a plastic container that can be punctured easily or could burn thru.

The expense of a real bilge pump would be lower if it was used more often.

As a fire unit needs to be checked every so often ,

when jet skis are buzzing or new arrivals are anchoring , might be time for a Fire Drill.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 12:34 PM   #17
Guru
 
Xsbank's Avatar
 
City: Duncan Cove, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Vancouver Shipyards Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,342
You guys are good! Great suggestions and ideas. The emergency bilge pump had never been used, I have 2 of those plastic crappy ones to keep anything that gets through the shaft seal pumped out. I suppose I should have filled the bilge with a garden hose and exercised the expensive pump once in a while but I never thought of it - all the rest of the systems on board are in good order.

I noodle about in the summer and have only encountered one boat in distress, a fish boat on fire, but the Coast Guard got there first so I just stood off "in case" but was fortunately not needed.

I have no illusions of being a hero, it just seemed more likely that an external pump with a 3" discharge would be better than the smaller engine-driven pump that will only work with the main running. All my guests are prepped about not being heros, to expect to use the fire extinguishers to save a life only and to expect to abandon ship if there is a fire; in any scenario that we might be sinking, to use the pump to keep afloat until help arrives or I until can run up on a beach.

I already have gas onboard for the outboard, usually enough for the summer's use, so I regularly change out the supply. Corrosion and bad gas seem to be the main challenges here, the plumbing and storage should be no problem. Plus, it's portable enough to follow me home when it's not being used, if necessary.

I will also call my chandler and see about rebuilding the old pump too.

Woohoo, fire drill!
__________________
"...Tongue tied and twisted, just an earthbound misfit..."

Don't believe everything that you think.
Xsbank is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 12:45 PM   #18
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,197
"I already have gas onboard for the outboard"

Modifying the Honda furl feed to accept the OB gas tank fitting is simple.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 03:13 PM   #19
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 5,006
I am sure you have considered it, but what about a shaft driven pump? The only utility it would have would be to keep you from sinking if you have a leak when away from the dock as it is the turning shaft that drives the pump. However, for an emergency pump that would typically be when you would need it. It would take no room outside of the ER, no gas engine to start and it starts pumping water as soon as there is water in the bilge.

I'm not sure of the cost, but it could be less than another gas engine (which I hate). It also would have next to no maintenance (which I love).

Fast Flow Pumps - Bilge Pump
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2017, 03:46 PM   #20
Guru
 
Xsbank's Avatar
 
City: Duncan Cove, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Vancouver Shipyards Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,342
The problem with a shaft-driven pump is that you are under way and somebody has to stand watch while the emergency is in progress. It might make it hard for a rescue boat to catch you if you are under way? What if the sea is rough! You need max power to run the pump but too much for the sea? Just last year I was down to 4 knots running into a head sea in Malaspina Strait...

Sorry, that, for me, is less practical than a gas pump (although I hate more maintenance and hate keeping gas onboard too).
__________________

__________________
"...Tongue tied and twisted, just an earthbound misfit..."

Don't believe everything that you think.
Xsbank is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012