Emergency escape hatch

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... estimated 35 passengers missing. Appears as though the bunkroom was on the bottom deck. Bunks are stacked 3 deep... 5 crew members are only survivors.

I dove with that boat previously. The triple stacked bunk room was horrible. It's bad enough having like 18" of headroom in your bunk, but having the guy above you farting in your face is even worse.

However it did feel uncomfortable from a safety point of view and when the trip was over I told my wife "never again."

It's sick how those 5 brave crew members left an entire cabin of 30+ to die. Did they lock the companionway door? This story almost sounds like a terrorist novel.
 
I would definitely give the side windows a trial run to make sure you can get out of them. The aft facing window would be a prime candidate to be replaced with an opening hatch. You may be able to replace it with a larger hatch. Nothing a sawsall or a jig saw won’t fix...
 
Until this tragedy I had never given any thought whatsoever to alternate escape routes. Huh. Luckily our boat is okay. Large bow hatch over the forward berth and not so high I couldn't climb out, and a large stern window in the aft master cabin entirely removeable, held in place by four bronze dogs. Our previous boat, Carver, had a large bow hatch but the aft cabin only had one way out, and each of the two gasoline tanks were located under the aft bunks. Hmm.
 
each of the two gasoline tanks were located under the aft bunks. Hmm.


I've got that situation as well. The aft bunk is really just a fuel tank enclosure (420 gallons of gas). So if something happens under there, getting out doesn't matter, you'll be gone before you even feel it.
 
Until this tragedy I had never given any thought whatsoever to alternate escape routes. Huh. Luckily our boat is okay. Large bow hatch over the forward berth and not so high I couldn't climb out, and a large stern window in the aft master cabin entirely removeable, held in place by four bronze dogs. Our previous boat, Carver, had a large bow hatch but the aft cabin only had one way out, and each of the two gasoline tanks were located under the aft bunks. Hmm.

Good design, right.
 
In 1934 a ship called the Moro Castle caught fire off the coast of New Jersey. It drifted near a beach and grounded.

Back in the early seventies one of our customers gave my Dad some artifacts from the ship. It turned out he had been a life guard on the beach and after the fire was out he had gone aboard.

He mentioned that some passengers had been stuck while trying to get out through round port lights on the side of the ship.

I just tried to confirm this on the internet but couldn’t. I did read the story on Wikipedia and found it fascinating.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Morro_Castle_(1930)
 
The boat did have two exits, the second is mentioned by a person who was interviewed that had done numerous trips on the Conception .. he stated that the safety briefing pointed them out and the locations of extinguishers etc. Clearly something catastrophic happened that there wasn't a contingency for.

What is scary is to think about all the bottles in the cascade system and all the kinetic energy stored in them.. not to mention supplemental oxygen stored aboard.



HOLLYWOOD
 
They said on the news that they put out the fire several times and that it had reignited. But by the time any responders got on scene it would have been too late for the passengers.
 
I’m surprised that passenger carrying vessels aren’t required to have two exits from sleeping quarters. I bet they will be in the future. The only good thing to come out of this disaster is that it has started a discussion about this.

A boat carrying over 50 passengers must have a fire/smoke detection system along with fire fighting equipment. The boat involved, along with many other Ca dive boats, was certified for 46 passengers.

The USCG recommends a lot of things, but nothing seems to be mandated. If there is a loophole people will use it. If the second deck galley was fully involved, the crew on the bridge deck were helpless, and the divers on the third deck with one narrow stairway up were doomed.

We need NFPA/USCG to update fire safety regulations.
 
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Hi all, one year and 3 days ago, my sailing yacht, 123 ft Dubois design caught fire in the engine room probably due to an hydraulic hose failure. It happened at night time while cruising, we were 5 on board, fortunately no one got physically injured but the yacht was a total loss. We had all fire fighting equipment on board, fm 200 in engine room, escape hatches in both crew and guest areas, fire fighting pumps, breathing apparatus,..... luckily enough 4 out of 5 were on the deck outside and the one below deck had just time to come up to the wheelhouse. We had basically few minutes to abandon ship, the toxic smoke, heat and fire gave us just enough time to launch our life raft and a small tender, no way to even try to fight the fire, as Captain and owner I made sure that everyone was safe before jumping in the raft but believe me no matter how good your yacht is equipped and designed should we had some more guests on board I am not sure that I would have been able to save all of them. We do not have all details regarding this dive boat and why only the crew could escape but I am not the one judging them having experienced the trauma of being on a boat on fire and the nightmares for many months.
 
I dove with that boat previously. The triple stacked bunk room was horrible. It's bad enough having like 18" of headroom in your bunk, but having the guy above you farting in your face is even worse.

However it did feel uncomfortable from a safety point of view and when the trip was over I told my wife "never again."

It's sick how those 5 brave crew members left an entire cabin of 30+ to die. Did they lock the companionway door? This story almost sounds like a terrorist novel.
How the hell do you know that those crew members cowardly left those folks to die? Could it not have been that those folks were doomed before anything could be done. Suggestion: wait for the facts before you condemn others.
 
Two exits makes sense. But what does that mean?

Two exits from each cabin? Most (but not all) masters have a 2nd means of egress, but few boats I am aware of have a 2nd exit directly from the guest cabins.

Two exits from the "sleeping area"? So if a midships-master on an RPH is "near" the forward cabin, and there is a 2nd exit in the forward cabin, is that sufficient?

Dunno.
 
How the hell do you know that those crew members cowardly left those folks to die? Could it not have been that those folks were doomed before anything could be done. Suggestion: wait for the facts before you condemn others.

Agreed. Crew was on the bridge waking up at 3AM. Fire apparently was on galley deck. Doubt there was any way for them to get below. From the sound of the vhf call the bridge was enveloped in smoke so they evacuated.

It would not be unusual for outside doors to be secured at night. If the crew evacuated the boat they may not have able to reboard.

NTSB report will be available in a year or so. It may or may not determine the cause.
 
Two exits makes sense. But what does that mean?

Two exits from each cabin? Most (but not all) masters have a 2nd means of egress, but few boats I am aware of have a 2nd exit directly from the guest cabins.

Two exits from the "sleeping area"? So if a midships-master on an RPH is "near" the forward cabin, and there is a 2nd exit in the forward cabin, is that sufficient?

Dunno.

Two exits from each sleeping area. A forward cabin usually has the main passageway entrance but also an overhead hatch. RPH boats often have only the main passageway. How do you get out if there is fire in the passageway???

Only you can decide if going through the passageway into the forward cabin then out the hatch is "close enough" for you. Suppose a fire started in the forward cabin, then what?
 
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Saw a video where one gent who had been aboard the boat before said he thought toe exit ladder/stairs both lead into the cabin rather than to fresh air. I wonder if some ever even woke up.
 
There were two exits from the bunk room: one via the shower room and another directly out of the bunk room. Unfortunately they both exited up into the burning galley. The floor plan is online for all to see.

The crew bunks are up on the top deck level, but it is reported the crew were all awake anyway at 3:30 am and in the galley and on the upper levels. Not too much they could do if there was a big grease fire or a deep fryer ignited and spilled. I read that one crewman suffered a broken leg jumping down to the main deck, this implies the whole cabin was engulfed before he abandoned ship.
 
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This was forwarded to me about an hour ago. The author of it, LeeAnne Pantuso Clark, is a sailor, scuba diver, underwater photographer, writer, wife and mother.

I just spent a half hour talking with the gentleman who rescued the five crew members from Conception. Ran into him in the line at Vons down here in Channel Islands Harbor. A really sweet man named Bob, owner of Grape Escape.

He gave me quite a bit of insight that hasn't been reported, or has been reported wrong in the media. Keep in mind, this is from my memory of our conversation so don't take it to the bank, but here's what he told me.

First of all, let's clear up a few misconceptions:

1. There was NO PROPANE on that boat. Everything in the galley was electric.

2. The divers were NOT "locked in". There's been some speculation about that because of what was heard in the 911 call by the captain of Conception, but all that was heard was the dispatcher's side of the conversation, in which he asked if they were locked in, and asked if he could get back on the boat to unlock it. It wasn't locked.

3. The crew were all up in the wheelhouse. By the time they realized there was a fire, the galley was already fully aflame. The single stairway out of the bunk room below-deck goes into the galley. THERE WAS NO WAY TO SAVE THEM. The crew didn't "abandon" the divers to die. They had no choice but to jump, or perish themselves.

4. The crew weren't plucked out of the water. They jumped off and made their way to the dinghy tied to the stern, cut it away and dinghied over to the Grape Escape, where they were able to call emergency services.

5. They were not cooking breakfast at the time. It was 3:30 in the morning, everyone was asleep.

So that's just clearing up the wrong info that's been out put out there. He told me lots of other stuff as well - keep in mind, this is all unconfirmed. He said one crewman told him that he heard a bang in the galley around 1:30 am, but he assumed it was just a diver banging into something after coming upstairs for a drink or something. But now Bob thinks that may have been whatever set off the fire. I've speculated from the beginning the fire started in the galley, so that seems likely to me.

He also said that one of the crew members' girlfriend was sleeping down below. So obviously they would have done everything they could to save them.

There was more but that's all I can remember off the top of my head. Poor Bob is being besieged by the media - they even called his mother out-of-state! He's doing Anderson Cooper at 11:00 (in about an hour), and he says that's all he wants to do. He's devastated and traumatized. And he doesn't like people calling him a hero - he says he was a "Good Samaritan", and did what any boater would do out there. I agree - of course we all would have done what we could to help. Doesn't take away from his amazing kindness in trying to help these traumatized crew members. And he himself is hurting bad, and will be for a very long time. I gave him a very long hug.

Richard Spindler, Mike Laban, Bill Bushing, Walt Conklin, Jan Larson, Debbie Karimoto, Ken Kollwitz, Don Beary - I know you're all very interested in what's going on and what's being reported, so I'm tagging you so you'll see this. Let me know if I can answer any questions, as I'm sure I'll remember more of our conversation as time goes on.
 
As the fire may have started in the galley, I wonder if they have pressure cookers onboard boats like this?

I lived near a restaurant when I was younger, where a pressure cooker exploded, taking out half of the restaurant. Fortunately, it was in the early morning, before the place was open to the public and most of the employees. Took about 3 months to get the repairs done.

Jim
 
The CG stated that there were no locks on the doors and hatches.
 
We have never gone out on the Conception but we have been out on The Great Escape many times and it had a very similar layout. It was a great LOB dive-boat but it was a bit unnerving to imagine trying to escape from down below.

I have a similar uneasy feeling when down in our engine room on the 'wrong' side of the Perkins 6.354.

Having listened in to the SAR vhf traffic since yesterday morning I'm now more seriously considering adding a second access hatch on the other side of the engine room.
 
It certainly makes you rethink all your emergency plans, doesn’t it. We have 8 portable fire extinguishers plus the halon in the engine room so I think we are good there. But I am going to run a fire drill and make sure we can get our dog out of the escape hatch in the aft cabin.
 
...The Master cabin in my boat is all the way forward. There is a hatch over the end of the island queen. Standing on the end of the bed, you can sort of throw the hatch open. At 60 with a loss of muscle mass in my shoulders, I can't pull myself up and out. While I'm sure there will be some adrenaline rush to help, still didn't feel confident. I keep 4' a A frame step ladder in the closet.

Ted

Hobo has basically the same set up as Ted as does every other KK42. Having to pull myself/Lena through the hatch while standing on the berth or trying to pull her up from the dxk, the thought is scary. It’s time to rethink and practice emergency egress. It also looks like a ladder.
 
Maybe some folding steps if there is a bulkhead nearby? Some sailboats use folding steps and we had a folding step in a forward cabin in a previous boat to get out of the hatch.
 
Our boat has an aft cabin escape hatch. I had to use it one day when the latch fell off the door and trapped me down there. I wouldn't sleep in a room on a boat that didn't have one.

But, I think about every airline flight I've ever been on, and noticing that about 5 per cent of the passengers are paying attention when the flight attendants are pointing out where the holes are to get your ass out of a burning plane are. I'm betting most people on a boat for the ride are the same way.
 
I spent 3 nights on the Conception a few years ago. Older, wood, but very well kept and apparently up to date on all CG requirements. Diesel main, but probably some gasoline for outboards and maybe propane for galley...I can't remember One report says the fire started in the galley, which is on the deck ABOVE the main sleeping area. IIRC, at least one of the 2 exits from the sleeping area went out through the galley, so a fast-spreading fire in the galley might have blocked both exits from the sleeping area pretty quickly. Crew quarters were on same level as galley, IIRC, or maybe even above the galley. So it's not surprising that the crew got off so quickly. In retrospect, maybe not such a great design, having the galley above the sleeping area, but that is a judgement after the fact. All in all, a very sad affair.








Truth Aquatics dive boat "Concepcion" just burned and sank off Santa Cruz Island. estimated 35 passengers missing. Appears as though the bunkroom was on the bottom deck. Bunks are stacked 3 deep. One bow stairway leading up to dining area. Might have been a second exit near engine room. Deck plan isn't detailed enough. Dining area exited out doors on aft end.

Capacity of 46. Fire happened at 4AM. 5 crew members are only survivors. USCG hasn't released any details. First impression is a fire and heavy smoke at 4AM in a crowded belowdecks bunkroom is going to be difficult to escape. Divers are usually trained to keep their head on straight so it may have been a pileup at the exit. If it was a galley fire on the deck above they were doomed.

I predict a big overhaul of charter boat industry requiring not just more exits but better lighting and fire fighting equipment. Crew of captain, 2 deckhands, and 2 cooks probably weren't trained in firefighting or evacuation. They bailed.

Conclusion, have a plan and practice it.
 
...I think about every airline flight I've ever been on, and noticing that about 5 per cent of the passengers are paying attention when the flight attendants are pointing out where the holes are to get your ass out of a burning plane are. I'm betting most people on a boat for the ride are the same way.

When they do safety speeches on planes or muster drills on cruise ships, I always look around at a lot of the other passengers and think: if something really bad happens, we're all doomed. Look what a long, inefficient, frustrating, awkward experience it is just to get a plane fully boarded. Quick agile response in the midst of an emergency? Yeah right.
 
When they do safety speeches on planes or muster drills on cruise ships, I always look around at a lot of the other passengers and think: if something really bad happens, we're all doomed. Look what a long, inefficient, frustrating, awkward experience it is just to get a plane fully boarded. Quick agile response in the midst of an emergency? Yeah right.

Unless of course the plane is ditching into the Hudson...
 
Our emergency escape hatch taken from the comfort of our king size bed.
Never have felt comfortable sleeping below on a boat.
 

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Unless of course the plane is ditching into the Hudson...

Even then, numerous reports stated there were passengers holding up the evacuation while they tried to get their luggage out of the overheads (something, I always figured would happen). Also, that plane never really sank. It was pushed over into shoal water by the rescue boats and settled to the bottom with room to still escape. In a fire, I doubt many would have escaped.
 
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Even then, numerous reports stated there were passengers holding up the evacuation while they tried to get their luggage out of the overheads (something, I always figured would happen). Also, that plane never really sank. It was pushed over into shoal water by the rescue boats and settled to the bottom with room to still escape. In a fire, I doubt many would have escaped.

I believe everyone was out of plane and on the rescue boats (local small ferries and CG units) before the plane was moved to shallow water.
 
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