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Old 03-22-2015, 02:01 PM   #21
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Does it have a priming port? If so mount a radiator over flow tank above it and plumb it to the port with a valve. Just keep the tank full so you can use it to prime the pump quickly when needed.
That's a good idea, and reminds me of another variation that I heard where the owner plummed it into the boats pressurized water system. Turn a valve and top it up.

Now I just need to perform one of these tricks on mine. I tested it before delivery, but haven't touched it since.
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Old 05-05-2016, 06:56 PM   #22
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Great setup Oliver.
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Old 05-10-2016, 03:07 PM   #23
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If totally dry, it will self prime after the water gets high enough to wet the motor.
Water has to get into the pump by the central end port, so the motor will be half underwater when it can pump.
Is the motor sealed?
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Old 05-10-2016, 11:13 PM   #24
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If totally dry, it will self prime after the water gets high enough to wet the motor.
Water has to get into the pump by the central end port, so the motor will be half underwater when it can pump.
Is the motor sealed?

No the motor isn't sealed.
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Old 05-11-2016, 12:25 AM   #25
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If totally dry, it will self prime after the water gets high enough to wet the motor.
Water has to get into the pump by the central end port, so the motor will be half underwater when it can pump.
Is the motor sealed?
I would think the point of having that pump would be so the water would never get high enough to self prime it even if pumps like that were sealed.
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Old 05-11-2016, 06:11 AM   #26
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I would think the point of having that pump would be so the water would never get high enough to self prime it even if pumps like that were sealed.
In an emergency, the brain is going to be somewhat panicked and who is going to think clearly to fill the pump with water so it might function? The water will be rising, the pump will go under and short out in the salt water, besides there would be a parasitic drag on the armature as it tries to spin in the water. So not a failsafe emergency pump you could rely on. In a sinking type event, you want to buy as much time as possible, so you want a pump to keep running even as it gets soaking wet flooded over as the boat steadily sinks.

I have 2 old pool pumps. I have in the past thought of for this emergency pump idea, but with their open motor design and having to be primed realized a much better idea would be use a submersible sealed sump pump meant to be submerged and still function.
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Old 05-11-2016, 07:54 AM   #27
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Open bodied pumps that may need priming are used all the time on larger boats as bilge/fire pumps. Priming is really a nonissue with a little planning and practice.

Are there high volume submersible pumps that can match the output of open bodied pumps? And if so how much space would they take up in a bildge?
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Old 05-11-2016, 08:09 AM   #28
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Greetings,
Mr. 11. A quick Google for high volume submersible de-watering pumps brings up a myriad of choices. As to comparative capacities...You're on your own.
A random listing... http://www.globalpump.com/submersibl...dewatering.php
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Old 05-11-2016, 08:24 AM   #29
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What's the output of a large Diesel engines water pump in comparison? What if you had a second hookup into the water pump from the bilge?
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Old 05-11-2016, 08:25 AM   #30
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Open bodied pumps that may need priming are used all the time on larger boats as bilge/fire pumps. Priming is really a nonissue with a little planning and practice.

Are there high volume submersible pumps that can match the output of open bodied pumps? And if so how much space would they take up in a bildge?
Maybe there are.
Tsurumi Pump - Products - LB Series Pumps - Tsurumi Pump
I just dont like metal AC pumps in salt water due to long term sitting they do corrode.

When I setup a sort of emergency pump system in my boat, I added 2 Rule 3700 pumps. So I have now two 3700 Rule pumps, two 2000 rule pumps and a 500 Rule pump.

So supposedly 11,900 gph capability, have to discount the head pressure of about 18 inches, so go figure. I doubt that is enough, but it would help if the boat was sinking.

I sealed the aft bulkhead on the boat, so it is a separate compartment. I then tested it by flooding it and initially the water came in fast, but it eventually slowed significantly almost to stopping coming in. So if that section with the struts got holed, the boat would not sink quick, and give me time to figure out something while the pumps keep up. In that section exists a rule 2000 and a rule 500 pump.

Bulkhead is placed about 6.5 feet forward of the stern transom, placed by OEM builder. It is now entirely watertight going up 3 feet. I sealed and or moved every penetration thru the bulkhead, put wires up at the top, etc.... The way the hull is made, this aft section can only sink so far, seems the hull forward of this can support a flooded compartment. I thought it worth my time. Marina had a 40' cabin cruiser lost when a wave caused boat to hit a rock in the stern in a storm, somehow boat hit bottom out on the York river, it split open the hull back there or cracked the strut loose and the boat went down in 5 minutes.
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Old 05-11-2016, 08:48 AM   #31
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Trash pumps are self priming save they need some liquid in them to keep the seals cool until the water flows well.

Used extensively in emergency flooding situations and salvage.

The ones we used in the USCG and assistance towing were gas but diesel was available for bigger pumps. They don't work under water any better than open electric motors and have reliability issues electric wouldnt.

Keep a gallon jug next to the pump with water and you are good to go with the short intake run you have and little head. Keeping a cool head in emergencies applies to not only pumps but in all dangerous situations. Pouring some water in a pump and hitting a switch is not much more demanding than the other tasks going on.

We used the double 3500 gph bilge pump packs and they pale in comparison to any 1.5 inch or larger trash pump...paper ratings be damned.

The pumps have corrosion issues compared to submersible pumps so a bimonthly or quarterly testing would be prudent from my experience.

Ultimately pumps aren't supposed to keep up with damage inflow, they are supposed to dewatering and keep up with patch leaks. Guessing what is actually required is almost a folly as what flow do you start with and what flow do you end up with?

I have been around that block more than once and have no clue fo my boat nor any other....
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Old 05-11-2016, 09:00 AM   #32
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Greetings,
Mr. 11. A quick Google for high volume submersible de-watering pumps brings up a myriad of choices. As to comparative capacities...You're on your own.
A random listing... Global Pump | Submersible High Volume Dewatering
Good link on high quality pumps.
Can any pump keep ahead pumping water out of a hose smaller in size than the diameter of the hole in the hull?

the idea of passive flotation appeals to me, designing in ability to float.
The goal would be a massive hole in any one part of the boat and the boat would still float. If they boat sinks to the bottom it is that much worse for the survivors and the environment and someone's pocketbook.
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Old 05-11-2016, 10:32 AM   #33
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What's the output of a large Diesel engines water pump in comparison? What if you had a second hookup into the water pump from the bilge?
This is some what common for commercials, using the engine water intake. That is on the to do list. Also commercial and I belive canada require two bilge pumps as back up and capacity. Two years ago had the raw water 2 hose slip off, the primary pump failed but the secondary pump worked. Al so have alarms on all 6 pumps, plus a portable 1500 pump just in case.
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Old 05-11-2016, 11:49 AM   #34
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It's been on our to do list as well. I like the fact that I'm not relying on the electrical system for it. Still have to compare it's gph before deciding that's our route for sure.
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Old 05-11-2016, 01:54 PM   #35
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Greetings,
Mr. 11. A quick Google for high volume submersible de-watering pumps brings up a myriad of choices. As to comparative capacities...You're on your own.
A random listing... Global Pump | Submersible High Volume Dewatering
Those look like they would work.

But they are around 30" tall or so. And you'd have to put one in each water tight area.

With a remote pump you just have to plumb pick ups to the different bilge areas coming off a valved manifold. The pick ups would of course have a much lower profile than the submersible pumps.
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Old 05-11-2016, 09:24 PM   #36
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you could install a brass swing check valve and use a small automatic bilge pump to prime it. just plumb the the small pump to fill the line just above the check valve so the line will be full before the big pump start pulling.

https://www.grainger.com/product/GRA...AS01?$smthumb$
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Old 05-11-2016, 09:27 PM   #37
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What's the output of a large Diesel engines water pump in comparison? What if you had a second hookup into the water pump from the bilge?
how large of a diesel are you thinking? the avg 3208 raw water pump moves 10 to 20 gpm at idle and top out some where in the 70 to 80 gpm range.
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Old 05-11-2016, 09:46 PM   #38
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Got it installed, ended up removing our manual bilge pump which had the same exact size hose the new pump needed.
Interesting thread, but this part makes me wonder... Does this mean you have no manual bilge pump anymore? I think I would be nervous without some type of manual bilge pump backup.

BTW, a few years ago while cruising back from the San Juans, I was monitoring a distress call on 16. A power boat was taking on water rapidly and the bilge pumps were not keeping up with the inflow. A woman (assuming a wife) was manning the helm and the radio. Her husband was down in the engine compartment manning the manual bilge pump but they were losing the battle and the engine compartment was flooding. She was driving the boat towards the nearest beach but didn't think they would make it before the boat sank. The USCG was tracking them and dispatching assistance.

Another boater came on the radio to offer the suggestion that they cut the raw water intake line and then close the seacock. Apparently the they succeeded in doing that. They were getting beyond my VHF range, but the bits and pieces that I continued to catch doing this enabled them to stay afloat long enough to beach.

Since listening to that exchange, the idea of a valve that connected the raw water intake to a hose in the bilge has seemed like an attractive idea.
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Old 05-11-2016, 10:27 PM   #39
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Dave I don't know why more people don't have a way to easily use their engine pump as a bilge pump in an emergency. I have a tee and valve just before my strainer. A hose runs from the valve down to the bilge. The plan in an emergency is to open the valve on the tee and then close the seacock.

A couple of years ago I was on a sport fish boat that was sinking. I kept looking at the two big Jabscos on the engines wishing there was an easy way to use them. If we hadn't gotten the flooding under control, I'd have been down there with my pocket knife trying to cut those big hoses.
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Old 05-11-2016, 10:34 PM   #40
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Interesting thread, but this part makes me wonder... Does this mean you have no manual bilge pump anymore? I think I would be nervous without some type of manual bilge pump backup.

BTW, a few years ago while cruising back from the San Juans, I was monitoring a distress call on 16. A power boat was taking on water rapidly and the bilge pumps were not keeping up with the inflow. A woman (assuming a wife) was manning the helm and the radio. Her husband was down in the engine compartment manning the manual bilge pump but they were losing the battle and the engine compartment was flooding. She was driving the boat towards the nearest beach but didn't think they would make it before the boat sank. The USCG was tracking them and dispatching assistance.

Another boater came on the radio to offer the suggestion that they cut the raw water intake line and then close the seacock. Apparently the they succeeded in doing that. They were getting beyond my VHF range, but the bits and pieces that I continued to catch doing this enabled them to stay afloat long enough to beach.

Since listening to that exchange, the idea of a valve that connected the raw water intake to a hose in the bilge has seemed like an attractive idea.

Yep, no manual pump. Not too worried about it.
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