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Old 05-02-2016, 07:57 AM   #61
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I have a manual salt water flush toilet (Raritan) and I also don't flush the paper. I agree it's gross, and the wife hates it, but I thought that's what I had to do.

Can I flush it? I would rather!
Yes, you can flush toilet paper. We have been flushing single ply "Scotts" brand toilet paper for many years in two different manual heads on two different boats without problem. That's the cheap stuff available wherever toilet paper is sold. You can also choose to pay more and buy toilet paper at West Marine. It's no better, just more expensive.

Just one caution: If you flush toilet paper and try to empty your tank immediately with your onboard macerator, the paper may clog the macerator. Give the paper a little time to decompose first. This happened to me once. No problem, an hour or two later, all was well and the pump ran and did its business.
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Old 05-02-2016, 08:28 AM   #62
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We have the basic Jabsco manual head on our boat and it suits us fine. Neither of us is above pumping a few strokes.

I had a chance to buy a slightly used marine elegance from a friend a few years ago but it looked like it wouldn't fit. My friend suggested keeping the door open when sitting on it but I didn't like that suggestion.

I installed a rebuild kit in a different brand of manual head several years ago and it wasn't much fun. Pricing a rebuild kit for my present head, I found that for just a few dollars more, I could buy an entire replacement pump. I haven't installed it yet but it looks like four screws and a couple of hoses. Something that can be done easily and in place.
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Old 05-02-2016, 09:07 AM   #63
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Why do you always feel yours in the "only" way? Much depends on the boat and other circumstances. We are quite happy with both Headhunter which we've used very extensively over the last 3 years and with Masterflush which we've also used. There are many realistic options.
True... but Fred is correct... what he mentions is the simplest and least costly and least hassle of anything available for RV or Boat toilet. That is as long as the space aboard fits with the program.
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Old 05-02-2016, 09:28 AM   #64
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True... but Fred is correct... what he mentions is the simplest and least costly and least hassle of anything available for RV or Boat toilet. That is as long as the space aboard fits with the program.
Perhaps, but I don't honestly find any of ours to be a hassle. Maybe it's because I read Peggie's book. Boat toilets do not have to be a hassle. Maybe they did at one time, but if they are today, then you're doing something wrong. I see people trying to salvage part of an old worn out system and so they compromise the parts they do replace or repair by surrounding them still with old, worn parts. I'd strongly suggest that anyone who hasn't read Peggie's book, do so.
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Old 05-02-2016, 10:36 AM   #65
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Or gain a broad swath of sanitation solutions eperience like FF and Art and maybe a few others that don't always swim with the tide.

An RV set up is one half or more the complexity of marine toilets....with options also.

Nothing is a hassle when there are multiple heads on the boat and you pay someone to fix the broken one.

I have posted it before...but agree with FF that marine sanitation systems are the worst engineered systems on a boat. My recent experiences with Raritan engineers solidified that in spades. Kevin Sznders, others and I got no satisfaction from the manufacturers and resorted to our own fixes that seem to work for us.

Maybe FF and some others come across in less than a "gentile" manner sometimes...but in my experience here...many times it is well worth considering if you are willing to swim the tide.
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Old 05-02-2016, 10:57 AM   #66
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I get what FF was saying. Marine sanitation systems seem to be a product of their own evolution. When all a head had to do was eject waste into the water and not retain it, the process was a lot simpler in some ways, but you still had to engineer it so the boat wouldn't sink. Now, many of our heads are fresh water flush into a holding tank.

If a designer wasn't constrained by that evolutionary history and was building a boat from scratch, I can see that the easiest and simplest solution would be to place the toilet directly over the holding tank. The tricky part of the design would be to design it in such a way as to make servicing or replacing the tank possible.

However, I am not sure that turning the discussion of toilets into an economic class discussion is all that helpful.
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Old 05-02-2016, 11:10 AM   #67
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As many TF discussions...once the basic answer has been given, threads evolve.

My basic tenet is the toilet manufacturers have put a lot of effort into the toilets....less into the total system requirements.

I will admit the hold and treat by Raritan is the newest thought that I can relate to in quite awhile. Other than that...just improving on a bad idea for decades is not really super progress.

Private boaters often have had much better ideas in marine sanitation that what I have been reviewing at boat shows, mags, and in general for quite sometime.
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Old 05-02-2016, 11:31 AM   #68
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Thank you to Peggy, I appreciate your input.
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Old 05-02-2016, 12:31 PM   #69
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My basic tenet is the toilet manufacturers have put a lot of effort into the toilets....less into the total system requirements.

Toilet--any equipment manufacturers--only make equipment, they don't design systems...boat builders and owners do that

Boat builders are the worst sanitation system "designers"....owners often only make a bad situation worse by creating new problems in their efforts to solve the ones the builders created because they don't understand that all the equipment in a house is just an "appliance"...water is supplied by an outside source, the toilet is flushed into a pipe that lead to an off-site sewer...power is supplied by an outside source...you only have to connect appliances to them. But a boat is fully reliant on complete systems--fresh water, propulsion, electrical, plumbing, sewage management. It's up to owners to maintain and operate them, but all too often they try to do that with little or no understanding that everything on a boat IS a component in a system, and anything that's done to ANY component in any system impacts the WHOLE system. And without understanding how a complete system works, the result is often a series of "fixes" for "fixes" that didn't work...so they blame the equipment mfr.
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Old 05-02-2016, 12:42 PM   #70
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But if boat designers don't do it, the small advances like the hold and treat systems are a big advance....yet are still only part of the solution.

Not about blame as much as resourceful boat owners often have better ideas than the boat builders, toilet manufactures, and anyone else in the business. As FF pointed out... something pretty simple, complicated.

Again, stop thinking the rest of us are so clueless. Yes...some of us actually had careers understanding things way more technical than bicycle pumps.
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Old 05-02-2016, 01:04 PM   #71
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Again, stop thinking the rest of us are so clueless. Yes...some of us actually had careers understanding things way more technical than bicycle pumps.


Many of of here are very thankful to Peggy for her expertise and the help she so freely gives.

moving on....
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Old 05-02-2016, 01:10 PM   #72
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The bad rap with many things on a boat comes from not managing their limitations.

Toilets aren't as bad as most make them out to be if reasonably managed.

Families regularly plug and wreck household toilets through mismanagement also.

Exactly.

Boat system makers strive to make or at least make you think you experience on a boat can be exactly the same as at home. Thus you will fell comfortable and pick the system that seems most similar.

But as PS points out above, we forget all the problems we have with the home system also.

But the biggest issue is that virtually all home systems are GRAVITY fed. Your crap goes down

Now on a boat everything is opposite. but they make it look the same, "just push this button and it will work like home".

Instead they should say, think how complicated it would be if you had to move all your crap to the upper floor and then throw it out the window

Also, let me add that most if not all of the flushing problems I had in the early days, months, years, were because i expected the operators manual, which simplifies everything into "One Size Fits All" to be the bible.

As I gained more experience and understood the functioning of the entire system, I started to experiment and developed flushing procedures that work well pretty much all the time with our system.

Also, some toilet papers are really tough, it's not always obvious.

Lastly, I'm sure with all systems, it's not just one factor. The hose run, diameter of hoses, head height, exact amount of water being used, the pressure of the water in your fresh water system, etc.

All these factors make my Raritan experience different from yours.

Lastly, thanks Peggy for taking the time to explain again and again the workings of our sanitation systems.
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Old 05-02-2016, 03:08 PM   #73
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Maybe I'm dreaming - would not be the first time!

But:

Doesn't it seem that a maserator/pump of substanial power (way, way above what is normally available today) could be designed/developed to have marine sized porcelain throne placed atop it so that there is no question that solids would get moved fast and completely???

So what if it takes a few or even many more amps to feed the BIG BAD macerator/pump for its designed purposes. That's what strong house bank batt setups are for.

I often have concrete/grout pumped, done it for decades... difference twixt that and crap is just levels of scale.

In other words - I think marine toilet discharge pumps and methods in general are tiny, tiny, puny at best.

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Old 05-02-2016, 03:13 PM   #74
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My point exactly.....
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Old 05-02-2016, 03:21 PM   #75
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My point exactly.....
I kinda figured as much...
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Old 05-02-2016, 03:40 PM   #76
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Old 05-02-2016, 03:46 PM   #77
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What's cha smoken taday??? RT
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Old 05-02-2016, 03:50 PM   #78
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Looks like a salmon I reckon'...
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Old 05-02-2016, 04:30 PM   #79
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Just like with everything else on a boat, the sanitation system is a compromise. Putting an RV head directly above a holding tank might seem like a good idea if viewed in a vacuum, but in reality, it might mean installing the head in the saloon and there are good reasons not to do that.

In a smaller boat, space is limited and one of the compromises might be longer than ideal runs to the holding tank or excessive bends in the run.

I have a simple system and it's been pretty trouble free. I think if owners (and users) understand how they work and use them within their limitations they won't be on message boards complaining about them.
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Old 05-02-2016, 05:17 PM   #80
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Doesn't it seem that a maserator/pump of substanial power (way, way above what is normally available today) could be designed/developed to have marine sized porcelain throne placed atop it so that there is no question that solids would get moved fast and completely???

What are you eating??? Solid waste is 75% water...even a manual toilet breaks it up pretty well so it dissolves very quickly in the tank. And an occasional overload that clogs the discharge line will usually dissolve on its own in an hour or less. But even if you are passing concrete blocks, you really need to check out today's all china marine "thrones"...'cuz they do have pumps and "grinders" (they don't even call 'em macerators) that can even chew up an occasional tampon. However, nothing can chew up a wet wipe...those shouldn't even be flushed at home. They're causing millions of $$ in damage to municipal sewers.
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