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Old 05-01-2016, 02:16 PM   #41
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Thanks for all the reply's, sounds like the Raritan wins !

Thanks,
Bill R.
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Old 05-01-2016, 02:22 PM   #42
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I personally think Ted (the first response) was correct...just not detailed as most of us understand the basic principles of a pump.

If it just prevents backflow into the pump..then Ted is clearly the winner unless he recants by saying he doesn't understand the basic workings of the hand pump... (highly unlikely)

Just announcing you are the winner doesn't make it so.
Wifey B: Omg, call Nascar Scoring. Is it Brennan Poole or Elliot Sadler? Let them both sit at the flagstand until we decide. But this is Peggie's to decide.

Oh, this is so crappy. What a sh...ty situation has developed. Wish we could just flush it all away. Vacuum or hydraulic, I don't care. Was more detail needed or not. Sure glad I'm not the teacher grading the answers. What grade is needed on the answer? Did the first dude get a C and the second an A or was first incomplete. Omfg what a quandary, a bewilderment, a dilemma, a puzzle, a pickle. This whole thing is so septic now.

Meanwhile the cars on the track go round and round but some go really round and round.
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Old 05-01-2016, 02:46 PM   #43
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Wifey B: Omg, call Nascar Scoring. Is it Brennan Poole or Elliot Sadler? Let them both sit at the flagstand until we decide. But this is Peggie's to decide.

Oh, this is so crappy. What a sh...ty situation has developed. Wish we could just flush it all away. Vacuum or hydraulic, I don't care. Was more detail needed or not. Sure glad I'm not the teacher grading the answers. What grade is needed on the answer? Did the first dude get a C and the second an A or was first incomplete. Omfg what a quandary, a bewilderment, a dilemma, a puzzle, a pickle. This whole thing is so septic now.

Meanwhile the cars on the track go round and round but some go really round and round.
I disagree...open forum...let the masses decide.

The answer was more an essay than multiple choice so interpretation is part of the game.

I am sure Ted knew the right answer as some of us have been installing and repairing marine toilets for over 50 years...as been said many times....the basics of marine plumbing isn't rocket science...it is the subtleties that many miss...thus the need for experts in that field too.
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Old 05-01-2016, 02:53 PM   #44
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I personally think Ted (the first response) was correct...just not detailed as most of us understand the basic principles of a pump.
Sorry, but you'd you be wrong. John is the only one who got it right....he IS the winner.

Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein
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Old 05-01-2016, 03:01 PM   #45
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Wrong is only your interpretation....I choose to think some here are pretty smart even if they don't have a book out on the subject.

Ted just kept the answer short, describing the vacuum is all just fluff when it comes to that or any other pump and how it is generated.

Backflow could be static or affected by the pumping action...just because he didn't write some textbook answer doesn't mean his answer was incorrect....just didn't spell it out for the people who don't understand the workings of a simple hand pump.

Describing the pumping and flapper really wasn't part of the question.

Is there a reason it is a "joker" valve and not just another flapper valve?

If there is, then I will gladly reverse my opinion.
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Old 05-01-2016, 03:19 PM   #46
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Is there a reason it is a "joker" valve and not just another flapper valve?

A joker valve is a one-way valve with a slit in it that--until it becomes worn--closes completely when suction is applied to it. A flapper valve has only a weighted tongue...it cannot close completely no matter how much suction is applied to it. Therefore, unlike a joker valve, a flapper valve cannot create a vacuum needed to create the pressure to move bowl contents out of the toilet and through the system.

The same thing essentially happens in a bicycle pump... Pulling the handle up against the one way valve in the stem (which is why it's called a "VALVE" stem) creates the vacuum that provides the air pressure on the down stroke.

I disagree...open forum...let the masses decide.

The laws of physics aren't debatable!

Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein

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Old 05-01-2016, 03:22 PM   #47
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Peggie, you are really not very good at retirement.
Thank goodness!
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Old 05-01-2016, 03:25 PM   #48
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Greetings,
So what about the answer to post #38?
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Old 05-01-2016, 03:45 PM   #49
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So really the purpose is exactly the same...just the efficiency of a joker and flapper are different. I wonder how all those whale gusher pumps installed to empty holding tanks do it.

I will let it go with that so I can keep up with the PMs coming my way....

Give the award to the worthy one.....
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Old 05-01-2016, 04:32 PM   #50
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Greetings,
Good explanation for a manual toilet where a one way (joker) valve is necessary to achieve a vacuum and charge by means of a hand pump but no such vacuum is necessary for an electric toilet where such charge is developed by the impeller. No? If such is the case, the joker valve is only acting as an anti-back flow device in an electric throne I would think.
Correct. Joker valves aren't even necessary in electric toilets....some people remove it and route the head discharge hose straight up to keep water in the bowl "like the toilet at home."

However, I limited the question to the real function of the joker valve in a manual toilet and why it's so important to replace it annually.

And btw, I didn't write the Joker Valve 101 piece. Vic Willman, who was tech services manager at Raritan until retired after 40 years sent it to me several years ago in reply to a question.
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Old 05-01-2016, 05:01 PM   #51
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So really the purpose is exactly the same...just the efficiency of a joker and flapper are different.

No...they have different functions...

I wonder how all those whale gusher pumps installed to empty holding tanks do it.

If you'd bothered to learn how a diaphragm pump works, you wouldn't have to wonder, you'd know.

Give the award to the worthy one....

I will...and that's John. But why are you the only one carrying Ted's water? He can't speak for himself????

(I think I'm starting to remember why I retired......)

Peggie
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Old 05-01-2016, 05:04 PM   #52
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I have a vacuflush system on mine for both toilets............basically maintenance free, and quiet. Once in a great while, the seal on the toilet bowl doesn't get a perfect seal, so, the vacuum pump cycles. Keeping the seal clean and lubricated now and then cuts that problem down to a bare minimum. I'm very happy with Vacu Flush
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Old 05-01-2016, 06:30 PM   #53
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Electric toilets

Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
I personally think Ted (the first response) was correct...just not detailed as most of us understand the basic principles of a pump.

If it just prevents backflow into the pump..then Ted is clearly the winner unless he recants by saying he doesn't understand the basic workings of the hand pump... (highly unlikely)

Just announcing you are the winner doesn't make it so.

You really need to lighten up. Ever hear of humor.😊

John
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Old 05-01-2016, 07:53 PM   #54
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Just got back on here. Don't worry about it.
Just keep Peggie posting and I'll be happy and content to read.

Thanks

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Old 05-01-2016, 08:14 PM   #55
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Peggie Wins! Period!!


She's forgotten more about marine heads and toilets than most people will ever know. I strongly recommend for everyone to listen and stop correcting our very qualified teacher.


Questions/suggestions are fine. Flat out contradiction... no, no, no!
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Old 05-01-2016, 08:48 PM   #56
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No to Vacuflush

To the OP: I am currently pulling out a Vacuflush and replacing it with a Marine Elegance. Don't buy a Vacuflush unless you want to spend your vacations chasing down vacuum leaks. Why bother?
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Old 05-01-2016, 11:40 PM   #57
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I gotta stop redding this stuff after a couple of sunuppers -- it's starting to sound like their talking about the stuff you put in latrines ..
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Old 05-02-2016, 12:11 AM   #58
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To the OP: I am currently pulling out a Vacuflush and replacing it with a Marine Elegance. Don't buy a Vacuflush unless you want to spend your vacations chasing down vacuum leaks. Why bother?
How old was the Vacuflush? I'm hearing recent models give little trouble. I think sometimes on equipment we need to say how old the item we're praising or criticizing is. I make the same mistake by talking about a positive experience with something that is only 2 years old and not saying that.
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Old 05-02-2016, 07:46 AM   #59
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The only realistic toilet for a New Boat would be an RV toilet set on top of the tank.

No electric , and the use of a pint a flush instead of quarts or more would mean the tank cam go 10+ times as long before pump or dump is required.

Usually impossible as a retro fit , but should be a concept .
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Old 05-02-2016, 07:55 AM   #60
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The only realistic toilet for a New Boat .
Why do you always feel yours in the "only" way? Much depends on the boat and other circumstances. We are quite happy with both Headhunter which we've used very extensively over the last 3 years and with Masterflush which we've also used. There are many realistic options.
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