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Old 04-30-2016, 06:56 PM   #21
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A toilet that, when kept well lubricated, gets a complete rebuild kit in it every 5-6 years and a new joker valve annually, will easily provide at least 20 years of trouble-free service is NOT a "low end" toilet! 15 years isn't uncommon even for neglected ones. The Raritan PHII has been rated the best manual toilet in its class ("under $500" in the days you could buy a W-C Skipper or a Groco Model K for $700, now "under $1000" due to inflation). Nor is it a "compact" toilet, which is what the Jabsco, W-C and Groco HF are.

And btw...I'd bet real money that not one of you knows what the REAL function of the joker valve in a manual toilet is or why it's so important to replace it annually. In fact, I'll send a signed copy of my new book to the first person who does.

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Old 04-30-2016, 07:04 PM   #22
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20 times! I've been flushing 8 for some reason. I have Peggy's book but still learning.

Pumping any manual toilet dry that many times is only wearing out the seals and 0-rings in the pump. A manual toilet can only move bowl contents up to 6' in the dry mode. After that you're just pushing air over the top of the flush. If your tank is further than 6' from the toilet, it's gonna need some help from gravity to get a flush all the way to it in a single flush, even in the wet mode. A slight modification in the discharge hose run can provide that assist.

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Old 04-30-2016, 07:29 PM   #23
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from reading your posts ,I understand it is to block backflow of the discharge
into the bowl.

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Old 04-30-2016, 07:31 PM   #24
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Joker is the check valve that only allows flow from toilet towards holding tank or overboard? Otherwise contents would just slosh back and forth with each pump?

Hard to tell from exploded parts diagram....maybe a better guess with actual toilet in front of me....
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Old 04-30-2016, 08:16 PM   #25
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"A toilet that, when kept well lubricated, gets a complete rebuild kit in it every 5-6 years and a new joker valve annually, will easily provide at least 20 years of trouble-free service is NOT a "low end" toilet! 15 years isn't uncommon even for neglected ones. The Raritan PHII has been rated the best manual toilet in its class ("under $500" in the days you could buy a W-C Skipper or a Groco Model K for $700, now "under $1000" due to inflation). Nor is it a "compact" toilet, which is what the Jabsco, W-C and Groco HF are.

And btw...I'd bet real money that not one of you knows what the REAL function of the joker valve in a manual toilet is or why it's so important to replace it annually. In fact, I'll send a signed copy of my new book to the first person who does." Peggie

My toilets were new in 1980. Par, look exactly like Jabsco, so I think that is the same toilet. I have rebuilt with a kit twice since I have owned the boat, the first shortly after I bought the boat, so I don't know how many of the first 14 years saw any maintenance, and the second about 10 years ago. Both are still functioning perfectly after 36 years. I have lubricated with a light oil (used to use automotive, but since going green, I use vegetable oil) occasionally, whenever I detect the need, and have no doubt these will be perfectly serviceable when I replace them with electric toilets, hopefully in the near future.
No, other than to repeat what others have already said, I dont know the "Real" purpose of the Joker. I know that they get stiff, and when that happens they sometimes leak whatever is in the hose, before the anti-siphon, back into the bowl, so an annual replacement regime would eliminate that happening. In my case, however, I have never had that leak, so have never replaced without doing a full rebuild, which, as I stated above, I have done twice, about 10 years apart.
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Old 04-30-2016, 08:24 PM   #26
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It's a check valve designed to break up solids. That's why it is divided into three parts and not just a duck bill. It probably also acts as a bit of a "sizing device" (that's gross). If it clogs at the joker, at least you can clean it out there. So in essence, the joker valve is probably supposed to plug, and not further downstream.

So there's three reasons.
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Old 04-30-2016, 08:46 PM   #27
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The main purpose of the joker valve is to seal off the discharge line on the up stroke of the pump. This creates a vacuum which draws the contents of the bowl through the flapper valve into the pump. On the down stroke the flapper valve closes and the joker valve is forced open allowing the waste into the discharge line.

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Old 04-30-2016, 08:49 PM   #28
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PS Peggie,

I'll PM you my address for the book.😊😊😊
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Old 05-01-2016, 01:26 AM   #29
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As I mentioned. I always told the folks on the boat to pump 20 times, because I figured they would do half that. Maybe "low end" is the wrong word. "Basic" may be better? The PHII was simple and relatively inexpensive. It also was well built, easy to maintain, and never failed me. I can't say the same thing for the Jabsco or WC "Basic" manual heads that I have owned. The WC head I had was their "Headmate", not the fabled "Skipper". The Headmate was horrible.

However, I am generally ignorant about marine plumbing and only post on the subject so Peggy will get so frustrated with my answers that she will jump in with the correct information.
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Old 05-01-2016, 07:38 AM   #30
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Chris, Both my VFlush pumps were under my berth...it was the CHUNKacHUNKaCHUNKA of the vacuum pump under my bed in the middle of the night that could even blow Rip van Winkle out his 20 year nap. Making sure the "night switch" (switch in the head that turned of power to the pump, but not the water) was on helped considerably.

Oh, yeah, that too. I'd forgotten about the chunk-a-chunka-chunka part....

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Old 05-01-2016, 08:04 AM   #31
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Our Chris Craft had a Jabsco electric head that was macerating and had a 1-inch discharge line. Lower water use per flush compared to a manual head, so the holding tank did not fill as fast. Very noisy but very reliable. DC Current draw was high at ~18amps but you only ''push the button'' for a few seconds.
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Old 05-01-2016, 08:16 AM   #32
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Oh, yeah, that too. I'd forgotten about the chunk-a-chunka-chunka part....

-Chris
They don't do that anymore with the new quiet pumps. In fact they are so quiet now in most installations you can't hear them running.
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Old 05-01-2016, 09:16 AM   #33
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I pulled our old jabsco? toilet out last summer and replaced it with a fresh water Raritan marine elegance with the optional smart toilet control. Absolutely the best thing I ever did on the boat and Peggy was a big factor in helping me decide. Thank you once again Peggy!
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Old 05-01-2016, 10:39 AM   #34
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And btw...I'd bet real money that not one of you knows what the REAL function of the joker valve in a manual toilet is or why it's so important to replace it annually. In fact, I'll send a signed copy of my new book to the first person who does.

Peggie
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Old 05-01-2016, 12:23 PM   #35
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Hi,

I have read some posts about Vacu Flush Vs Raritan Elegance ( which a lot of people like ) and I noticed in the specs that the Vacu Flush uses a total of 8 amps ( 2 for the toilet and 6 for the vacuum generator) and the Raritan uses 18 amps for a fresh water flush.

I am replacing the manual in our 36 Shannon and Have a concern about the 18 Amp usage in the Raritan.

Any comments ?

Thanks,
Bill R.

Sorry about the late reply - just saw this post. FWIW we just replaced a PHII manual toilet with a marine elegance freshwater flush with the smart control (bought it from HopCar here on the forum - great service!). We absolutely love this toilet. No issues with operation or noise in the middle of the night.

One observation on the replacement - whatever toilet you choose consider replacing the entire waste line as well. We used the Raritan flex hose and have been very happy with it as well. The old hose was hard as a rock and had a LOT of crystals in it that could have been a pain in the future.

John
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Old 05-01-2016, 01:35 PM   #36
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We have a winner!

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The main purpose of the joker valve is to seal off the discharge line on the up stroke of the pump. This creates a vacuum which draws the contents of the bowl through the flapper valve into the pump. On the down stroke the flapper valve closes and the joker valve is forced open allowing the waste into the discharge line. John
JOKER VALVE 101
Most people think that the only thing the joker valve does is acts as a check valve to stop backflow from returning to the toilet or odor from the tank from escaping through the toilet. But that's not a joker valve's most important function...in fact, the joker valve is THE single most important replaceable part in a manual toilet.

Here’s how the discharge half of the pump works: On the upstroke of the piston, a vacuum is created in the area beneath the piston. This causes the joker valve to close tightly, and the flapper valve beneath the pump to open, allowing some of the contents of the toilet bowl to be drawn into the bottom half of the pump. Then, on the down stroke of the piston, the flapper valve is slammed shut, and the effluent is forced out of the bottom of the pump, through the joker valve, and off down the line. But when the joker valve becomes worn and/or there's a buildup of sea water minerals on it, it can no longer seal tightly on the upstroke of the piston...less vacuum is generated when you pump it. And as it becomes more worn less and less vacuum, till finally the bowl contents simply move up and down a bit, but don't go anywhere. Sometimes the flapper valve needs to be replaced too, which is why toilets should also be rebuilt at least every 5-6 years as PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE.

You prob'ly won't notice the loss of efficiency at first because it's so gradual...same as we don't see that we've gotten a little older than we were yesterday when we look in the mirror each morning. But I guarantee you that if it's been two years or longer since you replaced the joker valve, you need to pump the toilet at least 50% more times to move the bowl contents to the tank or all the way out the thru-hull....IF they're getting there at all any more.

Send me your snail address John...book (which includes this information, btw) will go out to you this week.
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Old 05-01-2016, 01:50 PM   #37
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I personally think Ted (the first response) was correct...just not detailed as most of us understand the basic principles of a pump.

If it just prevents backflow into the pump..then Ted is clearly the winner unless he recants by saying he doesn't understand the basic workings of the hand pump... (highly unlikely)

Just announcing you are the winner doesn't make it so.
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Old 05-01-2016, 02:00 PM   #38
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Greetings,
Good explanation for a manual toilet where a one way (joker) valve is necessary to achieve a vacuum and charge by means of a hand pump but no such vacuum is necessary for an electric toilet where such charge is developed by the impeller. No?

If such is the case, the joker valve is only acting as an anti-back flow device in an electric throne I would think.
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Old 05-01-2016, 02:03 PM   #39
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Peggie, you are really not very good at retirement.
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Old 05-01-2016, 02:12 PM   #40
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Peggie, you are really not very good at retirement.
Active retirement = Capability to pass on your knowledge! Peggie's a fine example!!
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