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Old 09-22-2014, 11:30 AM   #81
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Also glad you didn't get that one as it's extremely over powered.

She weighs 6,500lbs less than Willy but has 1.5 times as much power.
Eric - "... 1.5 times as much power." How minimal is the HP in your Willy?
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Old 09-22-2014, 11:30 AM   #82
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There's a reason I didn't buy several boats before finding our current one. Misrepresentation in a word.

If you're willing to lie to me to get me to look at it we have nothing more to discuss.
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Old 09-22-2014, 11:36 AM   #83
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There's a reason I didn't buy several boats before finding our current one. Misrepresentation in a word.

If you're willing to lie to me to get me to look at it we have nothing more to discuss.
AGREED!

"First time shame on you, second time shame on me"!

I detest liars and lies!!!
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Old 09-22-2014, 11:45 AM   #84
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Art,
Willy has 37 hp as rated by Mitsubishi. Vetus markets the same engine and claims 42hp. Westerbeke claims 44hp for the same engine. Take your pick.

But if you look at my Willard 30 and the Clipper I think you'll agree the clipper needs less power. Very pointy ends, less draft, less beam and far less weight. And Willy could do fine w 33hp. 30hp is plenty for the Clipper.
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Old 09-22-2014, 12:58 PM   #85
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Art,
Willy has 37 hp as rated by Mitsubishi. Vetus markets the same engine and claims 42hp. Westerbeke claims 44hp for the same engine. Take your pick.

But if you look at my Willard 30 and the Clipper I think you'll agree the clipper needs less power. Very pointy ends, less draft, less beam and far less weight. And Willy could do fine w 33hp. 30hp is plenty for the Clipper.
Heck, Eric.

We have 50 hp Johnson o/b on our 14'8" Crestliner tow-behind runabout. She gets 20/21 nmpg at 20/25 knot cruise. Light weight, fun, economical little devil... seats four comfortably with full windshield and bimini that shades all! Can reach 39+ nmpg in slack tide (per gps) with just me aboard.

Our 34' 20K to 21K gross lb Tolly has twin 255 hp i/b... running only one motor at slow cruise of 5.5 knots she gets 2.75 +/- nmpg. Running both engines while on plane at 16/17 knots = 1 +/- nmpg

How many nmpg does your Willy get at slow cruise? Must be darn good!

Although boat nmpg (over ground) "mathematically" comes down to a juxtaposition of HP, speed traveled, total weight, length, beam, bottom design, type-of-engine/fuel used for propulsion, drive-line configuration, friction; i.e. sq. in. surface contact, bottom cleanliness, waves encountered, currents, wind direction/velocity, position of movable weights aboard... just to name a few of the interchangeable variables - lol

It's near impossible to accurately mathatmically calculate what a boat will average for nmpg. It seems that only carefully studied and performed tests under stringently controlled conditions can come close to accurate - for any boat.

Therefore, I ask: So what if the Clipper in this thread has a bit more power than it mathematically seems is necessary?? In smallish engines (40 hp to 80 or 90 hp) (considering the compared engines' running efficiencies are the same) would it not be virtually the same nmpg at a same hp provided by a larger engine to travel through the water at same speed as an engine smaller in hp/size? And, would it not be good to have that extra power in larger engine available if needed for fighting rough seas as well as for towing something substantial... as may become required?

It appears you are a minimalist (to the fullest extent of that word) regarding engine size and hp available on "full displacement" boats. So as to barley let them reach cruise at recommended engine rpm, with WOT using every portion of the engine's available hp to at all attain the boat's designed top-hull-speed.

That said: I do mot consider myself a maximalist... however I do believe in having at least a few extra horses in reserve... for needs-be that can arise.

Happy H-Power Selection Daze! - Art
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Old 09-22-2014, 05:00 PM   #86
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It's near impossible to accurately mathatmically calculate what a boat will average for nmpg. It seems that only carefully studied and performed tests under stringently controlled conditions can come close to accurate - for any boat.

Yet, somehow you do, and to 2 decimal places.....

"Our 34' 20K to 21K gross lb Tolly has twin 255 hp i/b... running only one motor at slow cruise of 5.5 knots she gets 2.75 +/- nmpg. Running both engines while on plane at 16/17 knots = 1 +/- nmpg"






Happy calculator Daze!
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Old 09-22-2014, 05:19 PM   #87
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There are lies, damn lies and calculations....errr statistics. So sayeth a wise man I am unable to name....sigh.
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Old 09-22-2014, 07:56 PM   #88
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Yet, somehow you do, and to 2 decimal places.....

"Our 34' 20K to 21K gross lb Tolly has twin 255 hp i/b... running only one motor at slow cruise of 5.5 knots she gets 2.75 +/- nmpg. Running both engines while on plane at 16/17 knots = 1 +/- nmpg"

Happy calculator Daze!
_______________________________________________

Originally Posted by Art
It's near impossible to accurately mathematically calculate what a boat will average for nmpg. It seems that only carefully studied and performed tests under stringently controlled conditions can come close to accurate - for any boat.

NOTE - I said "near impossible"! And, my numbers come from "... only carefully studied and performed tests under stringently controlled conditions..." i.e. fill-up to fill-up with gps land-mass mileage and currents/winds carefully taken to account. Still, I would not be surprised if my condition controlled math is several % off the mark!

Fun to do and chat about though. So long as we always fill-up in time.

YRMV!
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Old 09-22-2014, 08:06 PM   #89
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Greetings,
Mr. D. "...I am unable to name..." Sigh no more...
Mark Twain quotations - Statistics
Disraeli...
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Old 09-22-2014, 10:51 PM   #90
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There is one for sale in Ladysmith, BC on the dock next to the Maritime Society dock. Trying to find the photo now. Original owner, not modified.
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Old 09-22-2014, 11:10 PM   #91
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Art I don't ever think of MPG. Only GPH. Willy burns 1GPH and goes 6.15 knots so I guess it's 6 MPG. That's over twice as bad as my 73 Buick.

And a FD boat requires 3 or 4 hp per ton of displacement. My Willard has 5. Four hp per ton is about as close as one can get not considering the specific boat in question. The Clipper has an extremely fine entry fwd and an easy exit aft. I suspect the wetted surface is not high. Displacement for a 34' X 10.5' FD is rather light. Could be that 24hp should push her close to hull speed and cruise her at 3/4 of a knot below hull speed. But I'd put 30 to 32hp in her if I was repowering.

Bob,
One what ... Clipper?
Predictions of power and speed for a FD boat is far simpler than faster craft. And it helps to have similar boats to compare. 40hp for this boat would be almost overpowered. 60hp certainly is. Why have 60hp when 16 is all that's necessary. It's not that I have extreme ideas. It's just that FD boats require so much (or little) power w a little for headwinds (like 15%) and that's it. They say the Willard 30' boats take 18hp to run about 6 knots ... a knot below hull speed. And that is just about exactly where you want to be. My highest cruising speed is 6.4 knots at 2500rpm. That's 500 down from max of 3000rpm. Nobody in their right mind cruises a FD boat over 1/2 a knot below hull speed. I'd say from 1/2 a knot below and up is overdriven and if one wants to get into those speeds a SD hull or extreme length to beam ratios as in a catamaran would be appropriate or/and necessary.
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Old 09-23-2014, 10:54 PM   #92
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Bummer

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There is one for sale in Ladysmith, BC on the dock next to the Maritime Society dock. Trying to find the photo now. Original owner, not modified.

It sold and has already moved onto it's new home...
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Old 09-30-2014, 11:01 PM   #93
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Two possible boats that I am looking at, anyone can weigh in and give their advise or opinion,
https://picasaweb.google.com/Rickize...24270060872194

and

1981 Tung Hwa Trawler Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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Old 09-30-2014, 11:10 PM   #94
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Two really different boats, one roomy and one not. I know exactly which one I prefer but it's not my money being spent...
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Old 09-30-2014, 11:25 PM   #95
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Oh- feel free to give your input. We are a family of three and have spent time on as little as 22' So either will work space wise. Usually when we are out we use our boat to get us to places. But also enjoy the bay and eating dinner while watching the sun set. I see the benefit of both. I am more attracted though to the Willard, less exterior maintenance, more robust hull, better economy, American built - would probably be easier to sell when the time comes....I think I just answered my own questions.
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Old 09-30-2014, 11:29 PM   #96
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Oh- feel free to give your input. We are a family of three and have spent time on as little as 22' So either will work space wise. Usually when we are out we use our boat to get us to places. But also enjoy the bay and eating dinner while watching the sun set. I see the benefit of both. I am more attracted though to the Willard, less exterior maintenance, more robust hull, better economy, American built - would probably be easier to sell when the time comes....I think I just answered my own questions.
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Old 10-01-2014, 12:10 PM   #97
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That Willard was also discussed here.

Is $48000.00 a reasonable price for a nicely restored Willard 30' Searcher?
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Old 10-01-2014, 12:59 PM   #98
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bshillam,
No comment on the Tung Hwa other than they didn't even take the time to clean the brown mustache off the bow. And that indicates the've run the boat a lot.

The Searcher is a beauty but not fully restored. Very overpowered. Using only 18 out of 55hp will leave you very underloaded. The 40hp Yanmar would have been a better choice.
The big difference between our Nomad and the Searcher is storage space. The Nomad has a "hold" about 10' wide, 2.5+' high and about 4' long. Short people could have a party down there. Not much other storage on the Nomad.
I think the engine is further fwd as it is on the Horizon.

If you did all this to a cheaper Willard you could spend $50K to even $100K to dupe this boat.

Is the replaced ballast just the Laz or the whole boat. I suspect just the Laz. That was the case w our Nomad and as I recall the others on Willard Boat Owners.

But the answer is yes it's probably worth it. As an investment though ?? Still probably OK if you maintain it.
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Old 10-04-2014, 11:36 AM   #99
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Eric,
When you say it's not fully restored what do you mean by that? Do you know something I do not? The list of new on this is quite extensive -

I do think I am moving towards a Vega. They appear to fill all my needs and check list for the next boat. Enough of a boat that we all can enjoy but small enough that it will still be economical to own.
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Old 10-04-2014, 12:12 PM   #100
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Forget the Chung HUA , the Willard is a winner! Looks like a lot of well executed work that adds long term value! I don't know what a beater could be purchased for but if you want a nice, clean, sorted boat you probably could not make it like the one in the photos it you were given the beater. And just forget that absurd comment about "Overpowered". That motor is just what an old Willard needs! Sure you could make a contraption with a bicycle and some pulleys attached to the shaft and strap your wife to it to power that hull, but what fun would that be. Start with an offer low enough that the seller curses you soundly, and then in January he'll call you back with a great price! Good luck.
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