Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-03-2014, 09:35 AM   #21
Guru
 
City: Venice Louisiana
Country: United States
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,097
Parasitic loss can be substantial. 50 hp from a 213 ci engine is more effecient than 50 hp from a 738 ci engine. Big engines operated at very low power tend towards low cylinder temps, especially DDs. my 8v92s are twin turbo intercooled engines designed to run at a fairly high load. at full bore they are converting diesel into noise at an alarming rate. They do sound good for $250 per hour in diesel.
__________________
Advertisement

kulas44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 09:50 AM   #22
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by bayview View Post
smaller engines don't mean better economy. If you need 50 HP to move your boat you need 50 HP regardless of engine number or size.
Actually the bsfc for a JD 4045 at 50 to 90 hp is considerably better than the same HP from the 2 stroke DD 8V92 such as Kulas has operating at slightly above idle speed. If you are so inclined look it up but I'd guess about 40% or more favoring for the 4045. Or similarly better for the trusty FL that safely got Dauntless across the Atlantic or heck even the 2 cylinder Scripps gas engine that got Detroit across the pond 102 years ago well maybe that comparison is going too far.
__________________

sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 10:47 AM   #23
Member
 
City: Richmond
Country: U.S.A.
Vessel Name: Aurora
Vessel Model: Ranger Tug 29
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 15
Free wine

Ahh Mr. Coot they gave me two bottles of wine

However there was a "missing" dock line and the dead starter battery that was a bit annoying.
Boont Boater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 12:58 PM   #24
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,723
FF wrote;
"smaller engines don't mean better economy."

And Bayview wrote;
smaller engines don't mean better economy. If you need 50 HP to move your boat you need 50 HP regardless of engine number or size.

Yes they do ...... generally speaking.
Usually engines are more efficient closer to the upper end .. rpm and load. Other factors are;
Diesel engines are "heat" engines and any heat lost and not turned into work is power and efficiency lost.
Much less of a heat sink from smaller cylinders, combustion chambers and even blocks. Any part of the engine that radiates heat.
Much smaller masses to move. Especially reciprocating parts.
And much smaller areas in friction.

And the lighter engine means there's a bit less weight (boat) to push. One of the reasons a twin trawler is less efficient is that it weighs 1.5 tons more.

It's more clear if taken to extremes. What if you and another needed 100hp to push your 42' trawlers. One did it w a 125hp engine and the other used a 1000hp engine.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 03:26 PM   #25
Guru
 
City: Hotel, CA
Country: Fried
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
It's more clear if taken to extremes. What if you and another needed 100hp to push your 42' trawlers. One did it w a 125hp engine and the other used a 1000hp engine.

Hey Moonstruck! I think Eric is calling you extreme
__________________
Craig

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2014, 03:59 PM   #26
Guru
 
Moonstruck's Avatar
 
City: Hailing Port: Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Moonstruck
Vessel Model: Sabre 42 Hardtop Express
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,854
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPseudonym View Post
Hey Moonstruck! I think Eric is calling you extreme
I resemble that remark.
__________________
Don on Moonstruck
Sabre 42 Hardtop Express & Blackfin 25 CC
When cruising life is simpler, but on a grander scale (author unknown)
http://moonstruckblog.wordpress.com/
Moonstruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2014, 02:07 AM   #27
Senior Member
 
bshillam's Avatar
 
City: Bellingham, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Our Heaven
Vessel Model: Willard 30' Searcher
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 471
Ok another thread maybe I should have asked the question on this thread?

Outer Reef 26' Comments?

Yes I understand that fuel economy isn't the end all. However I spend about $200 to go to Sucia for the weekend vs being out maybe $40 is a rather large gap. I enjoy using my boat in the slip but I also enjoy using my boat out on the water. If I make one to two trip per month this could be a savings of over $1600-3000 a year. It would only take me a few years to make up for the loss in the sale of the boat.

In addition, since I use my boats I wouldn't say that I lost anything. I had several vacations and wonderful weekends aboard. I spent less in boat dollars than I would have having a vacation on land.

Now I'd like to find a boat that I can really sink my teeth into and enjoy for years to come.
__________________
Bringing the love of wood and water together, we create something you will treasure from the day you first row, sail, or power.
bshillam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2014, 02:40 AM   #28
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,265
My JD4045 80-horsepower engine moves a 14-ton boat at $1 per mile at six knots.

__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2014, 04:43 PM   #29
Senior Member
 
MVNoPlans's Avatar
 
City: Olympia
Country: USA
Vessel Name: No Plans
Vessel Model: 1965 TollyCraft Voyager
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 100
bshillam: Just out of curiosity, if you run the tolly with the tide/current at 6-7 knots to Sucia, what do average for fuel burn? Around 2-3 nmpg?
MVNoPlans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2014, 05:14 PM   #30
Senior Member
 
bshillam's Avatar
 
City: Bellingham, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Our Heaven
Vessel Model: Willard 30' Searcher
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 471
At 7 I was showing 4 gallons a hour per side as I run both. Puts me at about one gallon per mile. The baots I am looking at are 5-10 mpg
__________________
Bringing the love of wood and water together, we create something you will treasure from the day you first row, sail, or power.
bshillam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2014, 05:24 PM   #31
Senior Member
 
MVNoPlans's Avatar
 
City: Olympia
Country: USA
Vessel Name: No Plans
Vessel Model: 1965 TollyCraft Voyager
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 100
Running with the current? ouch.
MVNoPlans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2014, 05:35 PM   #32
Senior Member
 
bshillam's Avatar
 
City: Bellingham, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Our Heaven
Vessel Model: Willard 30' Searcher
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 471
At least that's what the fuel flow meter said when it was working and most Tolly owners around the 34' twin gassed says. About a gallon per mile covered
__________________
Bringing the love of wood and water together, we create something you will treasure from the day you first row, sail, or power.
bshillam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2014, 07:29 PM   #33
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,985


We've a 1977 34' Tolly Tri Cabin; gasoline 350 cid 255 hp Mercruiser twins in excellent condition. Boat is well propped, clean bottom. Her one and only PO kept her alive and well, we do too!

These gas usage calcs were compiled by fill-up to fill-up gallons divided into miles traveled. Boat load usually 80% +/- fully stocked; averaged 2 to 4 passengers aboard.

These figures can only be used as averages. Notable increase/decrease happens depending on running with or against current. Strong current working with or against direction of travel can affect the two slower speed NMPG figures considerably; to lesser extent current affects the one higher speed NMPG figure.

- One engine on at 5 to 5.5 knots = 2.75 +/- nmpg
- Both engines used at 6.5 to 7 knots = 2 +/- nmpg (7.58 is math calced "hull speed")
- Twins pushing on full plane of 16 to 17 knots = 1 +/- nmpg

IMHO - Super well constructed and laid-out Tollycraft 34' tri cabin is simply a peach! With two separate staterooms, each with electric head and pressure shower wand, total of 5 person beds, and big salon to boot = NO problem accommodating 5 to 6 people. Usually it is just Linda and me... room galore. Sundeck atop master stateroom is big and comfortable. With that and fly bridge there is seating room for many - up to 10.

For build-quality, initial purchase-economy, resale-ability, ease of maintenance, general comfort, self contained livability, and sea kindliness... Good condition used Tollycraft boats stand tall.

YRMV
Art is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2014, 08:07 PM   #34
Senior Member
 
bshillam's Avatar
 
City: Bellingham, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Our Heaven
Vessel Model: Willard 30' Searcher
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 471
Art you have yourself a winner winner. I went around the San Juans this last week, maybe traveled a total of 75 miles and burned about the same. It might be that I just have a couple of pigs. The carbs are probably needing attention...
__________________
Bringing the love of wood and water together, we create something you will treasure from the day you first row, sail, or power.
bshillam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2014, 09:17 AM   #35
Guru
 
Rustybarge's Avatar
 
City: I need a bigger boat!
Country: Ireland
Vessel Model: Cheetah 25' Powercat.
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art View Post


We've a 1977 34' Tolly Tri Cabin; gasoline 350 cid 255 hp Mercruiser twins in excellent condition. Boat is well propped, clean bottom. Her one and only PO kept her alive and well, we do too!

These gas usage calcs were compiled by fill-up to fill-up gallons divided into miles traveled. Boat load usually 80% +/- fully stocked; averaged 2 to 4 passengers aboard.

These figures can only be used as averages. Notable increase/decrease happens depending on running with or against current. Strong current working with or against direction of travel can affect the two slower speed NMPG figures considerably; to lesser extent current affects the one higher speed NMPG figure.

- One engine on at 5 to 5.5 knots = 2.75 +/- nmpg
- Both engines used at 6.5 to 7 knots = 2 +/- nmpg (7.58 is math calced "hull speed")
- Twins pushing on full plane of 16 to 17 knots = 1 +/- nmpg

IMHO - Super well constructed and laid-out Tollycraft 34' tri cabin is simply a peach! With two separate staterooms, each with electric head and pressure shower wand, total of 5 person beds, and big salon to boot = NO problem accommodating 5 to 6 people. Usually it is just Linda and me... room galore. Sundeck atop master stateroom is big and comfortable. With that and fly bridge there is seating room for many - up to 10.

For build-quality, initial purchase-economy, resale-ability, ease of maintenance, general comfort, self contained livability, and sea kindliness... Good condition used Tollycraft boats stand tall.

YRMV
Hi Art,

Do Tollycraft have solid GRP hulls and decks?

Lovely looking boats; nearly 3 mpg at 5.5 kts isn't so bad with one engine.
__________________
Peter.
Rustybarge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2014, 10:14 AM   #36
Senior Member
 
bshillam's Avatar
 
City: Bellingham, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Our Heaven
Vessel Model: Willard 30' Searcher
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 471
Solid hulls and cored decks. Hulls are above average for their time period. Interior as well above average. Decks, just like any other cored need to be watched over. Really a good value for the size and quality of boat.
__________________
Bringing the love of wood and water together, we create something you will treasure from the day you first row, sail, or power.
bshillam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2014, 11:28 AM   #37
Guru
 
Rustybarge's Avatar
 
City: I need a bigger boat!
Country: Ireland
Vessel Model: Cheetah 25' Powercat.
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by bshillam View Post
Solid hulls and cored decks. Hulls are above average for their time period. Interior as well above average. Decks, just like any other cored need to be watched over. Really a good value for the size and quality of boat.
I've been having a look on the i'net and they seem to be very realistically priced.

I don't mind petrol engines because here in Europe diesels have to use fully taxed fuel; so petrol works out at about the same price per gallon.

The nearest equivalent in the Uk is a Pincess 30ds, the Majority had petrol twins but some diesels as well.. US style Trawlers were never popular and haven't been available over here until very recently with the Swift trawler 34' and 44';
I think a couple of people on the forum have them.

Princess 30ds boats for sale - Buy and Sell online at Boatshop24



The big deal was the bench seating in the saloon; the helm seat folds down to extend the seating.

__________________
Peter.
Rustybarge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2014, 11:50 AM   #38
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustybarge View Post
Hi Art,

Do Tollycraft have solid GRP hulls and decks?

Lovely looking boats; nearly 3 mpg at 5.5 kts isn't so bad with one engine.
Different years/models/size of Tollycraft had various mixes and compositions of materials for hulls, bottoms, stringers, transoms, decks, superstructure, interiors. That said: Tollycraft were built to very high standards. "Mr. Tolly" (Robert Merland Tollefson), cabinet maker and carpenter by trade, was stickler for all boat portions to meet his exacting standards.

My Rule of thumb: Tolly's early 70's to late 80's/early 90's are best bet. As long as owners paid an inkling of attention to fasteners in decks as well as other locations the material conditions usually remained sound. POs' correct maintenance on classic boats of any kind is of super importance.

If you want oodles of info on specific Tolly year/model it is best to join Tollycraft Boating Club Forum (it's free). Post question and there are usually many Tolly Gurus happy to provide answer. Tollycraft owners are near fanatical in their (our - lol) compassion/love for Tolly boats. I've been around the water for many years of life... pleasure boats, working boats, built in new boat factory and assisted shipwrights in boat yards restoring many brands of craft... I rank Tollycraft high-up on my list of great boat-builders.

Art -
Art is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2014, 12:01 PM   #39
Guru
 
Rustybarge's Avatar
 
City: I need a bigger boat!
Country: Ireland
Vessel Model: Cheetah 25' Powercat.
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art View Post
Different years/models/size of Tollycraft had various mixes and compositions of materials for hulls, bottoms, stringers, transoms, decks, superstructure, interiors. That said: Tollycraft were built to very high standards. "Mr. Tolly" (Robert Merland Tollefson), cabinet maker and carpenter by trade, was stickler for all boat portions to meet his exacting standards.

My Rule of thumb: Tolly's early 70's to late 80's/early 90's are best bet. As long as owners paid an inkling of attention to fasteners in decks as well as other locations the material conditions usually remained sound. POs' correct maintenance on classic boats of any kind is of super importance.

If you want oodles of info on specific Tolly year/model it is best to join Tollycraft Boating Club Forum (it's free). Post question and there are usually many Tolly Gurus happy to provide answer. Tollycraft owners are near fanatical in their (our - lol) compassion/love for Tolly boats. I've been around the water for many years of life... pleasure boats, working boats, built in new boat factory and assisted shipwrights in boat yards restoring many brands of craft... I rank Tollycraft high-up on my list of great boat-builders.

Art -
Thanks Art.
I was looking at Mainships with all their deck issues and tank problems, but it looks like Tollycraft are the Rolls Royce equivalent.
__________________
Peter.
Rustybarge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2014, 03:15 AM   #40
Senior Member
 
bshillam's Avatar
 
City: Bellingham, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Our Heaven
Vessel Model: Willard 30' Searcher
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 471
Island Gypsy

Anyone know anything about this one?

1983 Island Gypsy Europa Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

She looks like she needs deck work. Wondering if shes in real rough shape and thats why she has sat on YW for a long time. The price seems fair but then again I haven't seen her up close.
__________________

__________________
Bringing the love of wood and water together, we create something you will treasure from the day you first row, sail, or power.
bshillam is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012