Economy and well built trawler, tight budget....

[bshillam]

In the next few days I will know if the Tolly is sold. I promised my wife that we will not be boatless as we are at the steps to the San Juans and love the waters right around our home. This leads me to my quest,
Budget $40k or there abouts. (I know it's tight, but there are good solid boats in this budget). I'll take my time finding the right boat this time around.
Diesel, - economy is one of the top priorities. Going slow - really slow is ok, we make time when we are cruising.
Sleeping for three, wife and husband and growing 5 year old.
I have been attracted to the Willards since the first time I saw them, GB 32, IG 32, etc.
Flybridge would be great but not necessary.
Tender set up as we enjoy being on a bouy or hook.
I would rather have something that would hold it's value as with all things eventually I will sell it to buy another. But would like to find a close family member to enjoy for years to come.

 

[Mule]

Mainship 34 MK 1 2 or 3. You can get a gold plated one in that range. Down side is v berth.

 

[CPseudonym]

You seem to be describing the CHB 34' style boats to a tee. There's no real depreciation left in them unless you allow it to return to the Eco-system as some have.

 

[FlyWright]

Hate to just plug my model but a 34 Californian would fit the bill, too. Two staterooms and twin engine redundancy at 3gph.

 

[bayview]

What's wrong with the tolly.

 

[sunchaser]

We all know where there is a pristine fresh water vessel that fits your desires to a T. And it is an hours drive from where you are!

Talk to Daddyo

 

[Nomad Willy]

Hahahahahah

Everyone's push'in their own brand of boat.

What owner loyalty!

Oh damn .... Now I can't say anything wonderful about my Willard.

 

[Northern Spy]

There were two 34 CHBs for sale in Sidney, BC at the same broker, Bayview ~$40. Decks and tanks replaced. One claimed low hours. One was stored inside.

 

[bshillam]

Reply

Nothing is wrong with the Tolly per say. It's just the wrong boat for our needs. We usually drive the boat at 7 for economy and I enjoy taking in the scene at a lower pace. We could continuebto enjoy cruising much more economically in a lower hp diesel vessel than one that was originally designed for planing speeds. I have had the boat up on plane at cruise 14-17 and the hull handles much better at that speed than 6-7. I would rather have something that more closely matches our cruising style.
I think Daddy-O is already under contract with his lake Washington CHB, unless it fell through.
Also should I mention the outdoor space for social hour is just as important as the inside. So we tend not to favor the truck style of trawlers.

 

[kulas44]

Everyone (almost) here is pretty sure there semi displacement type of boat is the best way to go. To some a FULL displacement is the best. Almost always it is folks that have "been there done that" and know exactly what they need. Most here all want to say they have a "trawler" when most have a ski boat they drive slow. Unless they want to go fast. So, if you know what you want and the hull type you can narrow your search exponentially. Krogen 42 comes to mind. Or that type. I dont own one and will never but that TYPE is what you need. They have there own set of problems. Not as much so as the tiwaneez kind of boats but problems still. RESEARCH any boat befor even looking at it. Know the known problems to look for. Verify the problems. Better to know its there than to think it had a shoddy fix (krogen 42 kinda stuff by some owners). Verify that any repairs are and have been done CORRECTLY. Not done by well meaning unskilled owners trying to save a buck. I see this all the time. Read here and you will see it also. Read all of the "trawler" forums and you will be convinced that you really need to look hard at any repairs or improvements done to any "trawler" by its owner. YMMV

 

[markpierce]

My last "complimentary" bottle of wine from the KKMI boatyard cost me $7200. That might explain there is a plethora of owner repairs. Walking on KKMI docks to pick up the Coot last week, someone (not sure a client or an employee) said "was that your most expensive bottle of wine?" ... Leastwise, the maintenance was professional.

 

[FlyWright]

Everyone (almost) here is pretty sure there semi displacement type of boat is the best way to go. To some a FULL displacement is the best. Almost always it is folks that have "been there done that" and know exactly what they need. Most here all want to say they have a "trawler" when most have a ski boat they drive slow.

Kulas44,

What's your experience with trawlers? Do you own one? Do you prefer displacement speed or higher than hull speed? Gas or diesel?

 

[kulas44]

I have both ends of the spectrum. A 52 foot James Krogen designed trawler that is about as full displacement as it gets and a 48 foot ChrisCraft Commander 482 sportfisher that depending on speed is a semi planing or planing hull. My trawler had copious amounts of PO repairs and is now being totally redone in my yard. it has DD 4-53s at 120 hp each. My sporty had very little attention from its PO and besides the defered maintenance its in pretty good shape. it has DDE 8v92s at 600 hp each. I much prefer the trawler. I dont use the sporty as much anymore but when we do its at trawler speeds, less than 9 knots. it gets about 1 mpg at that speed. my trawler gets much better, usually 2 mpg or better, as much as 3 in ideal conditions and 8 knots. Of course the sporty could do better with smaller engines and I'm still kickin that idea around. I'm thinking a pair of 3-71s at 90 hp each would be about right. Just gotta get them put together. Good thing about detroits, they're like legos, just get the right stuff and put it together, it all fits. I may get around to it this winter, if I can get them built. I seam to have less time than is required for projects like this.

 

[Pura Vida]

I like your idea , Kulas44 : “Of course the sporty could do better with smaller engines and I'm still kickin that idea around. I'm thinking a pair of 3-71s at 90 hp each would be about right.”
I have a friend that is looking for one of the older Hatteras to purchase and convert into a trawler by replacing the old tired Detroit’s with smaller lower power non turbo diesels and travel at trawler speed.

 

[bayview]

smaller engines don't mean better economy. If you need 50 HP to move your boat you need 50 HP regardless of engine number or size.

 

[bayview]

bs:

you will not likely get better economy though handling will be different. The cost of selling and buying will never be recovered by fuel savings.

Find another reason for wanting a different boat.

 

[Marin]

There are 15 billiion Tollycrafts for sale in this area (PNW). If you're okay with a gas engine, your budget will easily cover the cost of a really nice Tolly 26 and pay for a whole lot of moorange, insurance, and all the other never-ending expenses.

You can also check out the next size up Tolly, which I think is a 34 (I don't know if they made a 30). A lot of Tollys are gas although some have been converted to diesel. Nothing wrong with gas if it's a well-maintained system.

Currently in Bellingham marina (Squalicum) there is a nice Nordic Tug 26 for sale at Northwest Explorations (Gate 3). Don't know the asking price, however.

 

[CPseudonym]

There are 15 billiion Tollycrafts for sale in this area (PNW). If you're okay with a gas engine, your budget will easily cover the cost of a really nice Tolly 26 and pay for a whole lot of moorange, insurance, and all the other never-ending expenses.

You can also check out the next size up Tolly, which I think is a 34 (I don't know if they made a 30). A lot of Tollys are gas although some have been converted to diesel. Nothing wrong with gas if it's a well-maintained system.

Currently in Bellingham marina (Squalicum) there is a nice Nordic Tug 26 for sale at Northwest Explorations (Gate 3). Don't know the asking price, however.

Awesome advice Marin but the OP is looking to replace his Tolly 34 he has under contract to a buyer I believe.

 

[SCOTTEDAVIS]

Awesome advice Marin but the OP is looking to replace his Tolly 34 he has under contract to a buyer I believe.

Woops! Ready, fire, aim.

 

[FF]

smaller engines don't mean better economy. If you need 50 HP to move your boat you need 50 HP regardless of engine number or size.

However 50 hp produced by an 80 HP engine will cost less fuel than when produced by a 250Hp or 400hp engine.

The required service , oil filters and an occasional bag of parts will also be far less expensive. Replacement perhaps 1/2, perhaps 1/5 the cost.

 

[kulas44]

Parasitic loss can be substantial. 50 hp from a 213 ci engine is more effecient than 50 hp from a 738 ci engine. Big engines operated at very low power tend towards low cylinder temps, especially DDs. my 8v92s are twin turbo intercooled engines designed to run at a fairly high load. at full bore they are converting diesel into noise at an alarming rate. They do sound good for $250 per hour in diesel.

 

[sunchaser]

smaller engines don't mean better economy. If you need 50 HP to move your boat you need 50 HP regardless of engine number or size.

Actually the bsfc for a JD 4045 at 50 to 90 hp is considerably better than the same HP from the 2 stroke DD 8V92 such as Kulas has operating at slightly above idle speed. If you are so inclined look it up but I'd guess about 40% or more favoring for the 4045. Or similarly better for the trusty FL that safely got Dauntless across the Atlantic or heck even the 2 cylinder Scripps gas engine that got Detroit across the pond 102 years ago well maybe that comparison is going too far.

 

[Boont Boater]

Free wine

Ahh Mr. Coot they gave me two bottles of wine

However there was a "missing" dock line and the dead starter battery that was a bit annoying.

 

[Nomad Willy]

FF wrote;
"smaller engines don't mean better economy."

And Bayview wrote;
smaller engines don't mean better economy. If you need 50 HP to move your boat you need 50 HP regardless of engine number or size.

Yes they do ...... generally speaking.
Usually engines are more efficient closer to the upper end .. rpm and load. Other factors are;
Diesel engines are "heat" engines and any heat lost and not turned into work is power and efficiency lost.
Much less of a heat sink from smaller cylinders, combustion chambers and even blocks. Any part of the engine that radiates heat.
Much smaller masses to move. Especially reciprocating parts.
And much smaller areas in friction.

And the lighter engine means there's a bit less weight (boat) to push. One of the reasons a twin trawler is less efficient is that it weighs 1.5 tons more.

It's more clear if taken to extremes. What if you and another needed 100hp to push your 42' trawlers. One did it w a 125hp engine and the other used a 1000hp engine.

 

[CPseudonym]

It's more clear if taken to extremes. What if you and another needed 100hp to push your 42' trawlers. One did it w a 125hp engine and the other used a 1000hp engine.

Hey Moonstruck! I think Eric is calling you extreme

 

[Moonstruck]

Hey Moonstruck! I think Eric is calling you extreme

I resemble that remark.

 

[bshillam]

Ok another thread maybe I should have asked the question on this thread?

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/outer-reef-26-comments-16450.html

Yes I understand that fuel economy isn't the end all. However I spend about $200 to go to Sucia for the weekend vs being out maybe $40 is a rather large gap. I enjoy using my boat in the slip but I also enjoy using my boat out on the water. If I make one to two trip per month this could be a savings of over $1600-3000 a year. It would only take me a few years to make up for the loss in the sale of the boat.

In addition, since I use my boats I wouldn't say that I lost anything. I had several vacations and wonderful weekends aboard. I spent less in boat dollars than I would have having a vacation on land.

Now I'd like to find a boat that I can really sink my teeth into and enjoy for years to come.

 

[markpierce]

My JD4045 80-horsepower engine moves a 14-ton boat at $1 per mile at six knots.

 

[MVNoPlans]

bshillam: Just out of curiosity, if you run the tolly with the tide/current at 6-7 knots to Sucia, what do average for fuel burn? Around 2-3 nmpg?

 

[bshillam]

At 7 I was showing 4 gallons a hour per side as I run both. Puts me at about one gallon per mile. The baots I am looking at are 5-10 mpg