Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-04-2016, 07:57 PM   #21
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 2,747
Quote:
Originally Posted by caltexflanc View Post
You first have to have an active traffic flow of cruisers passing through. You have to be a real destination (say Florida) or between two real destinations (Florida and New England). Something that is virtually nonexistent in places like Berkeley, Emeryville, San Leandro et al. So not all municipalities have the same economic opportunity trying to cater to a very small potential customer base. Of course in many places legacy private marinas pick up the role, depending on the political, business and land use history of a given town.

I wasn't thinking about just public marinas, but that of course is where research goes. In Eagle harbor on Bainbridge Island, there is one marina whose owner also owns a pub at the head of the dock. They try hard to be accommodating to transients since there is a good chance that they profit from not only the moorage and electrical but the food and bar tab that the transients may rack up.
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2016, 08:06 PM   #22
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 2,747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey S View Post
Does the free bus also go to Bass Harbor? Because that's why so many boaters go to Northeast Harbor - it makes it much easier to see the park.

We advise quite a few municipalities about getting significantly more boaters to come to their harbors. It's not a simple thing and the local business benefits aren't usually very large until the number of boats coming in reach into the hundreds. Not too many communities have the capabilities to attract and hold that many boats.

I think that is a good point Jeffrey, but many places have existing facilities to support resident recreational boaters. In some cases it would take a relatively small investment to make it more transient friendly. In this way the existing infrastructure can be supported by transients and transients bring outside money into the economy. A dollar spent from outside the community provides a greater economic boost than a dollar spent from within the community in many cases.
__________________

__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2016, 08:16 PM   #23
Guru
 
O C Diver's Avatar
 
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in Crisfield, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,708
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhays View Post
That same slip in Puget Sound would run about $5,400/yr in a reasonably popular area. More in some, less in others. I would love it if my moorage fees were cut in half.
Just to put things in perspective, the slip on the outside (ocean side) of the peninsula (70 miles away) for my 35' charter boat is $6,600 for 6 months! It's all about Location.

Ted
__________________
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
O C Diver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2016, 08:19 PM   #24
Guru
 
City: East Coast
Country: USA
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,943
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhays View Post
That same slip in Puget Sound would run about $5,400/yr in a reasonably popular area. More in some, less in others. I would love it if my moorage fees were cut in half.
It's mostly supply and demand. Land, labor and other costs are involved as well. I have paid (as a transient) $1.00 per foot for a nice marina and $3.00 per foot for a dump. I know in Ney York city, rates start at $4.00 per foot and go up from there. Way up in some cases.
WesK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2016, 08:28 PM   #25
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 9,290
Here in Vallejo there are plenty of vacancies. Transients appear to be welcome since there seem to be several transient liveaboards at K dock during the summer season to "vacation" from southern/Mexican waters.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2016, 08:38 PM   #26
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 9,013
A lot less impact than some boaters like to believe. In most places, the marinas aren't even dependent on transients, although in tourist areas they are. However, in tourist areas the vast majority of tourists come by land. I hear a lot of boaters who never go beyond the area they can walk, may frequent a local bar or small restaurant. The boater who buys fuel once a year, anchors out, does the maintenance themselves isn't likely to spend big money in towns they visit. The frugal sailor (not all, just the frugal) who lives and cruises on $1000 a month isn't going to help the economy. Even look at a place like Atlantis in Nassau, transients are the life of that marina, but when it comes to the resort itself, a very minor percentage of their business. Fort Lauderdale's economy certainly depends on boating, but even there the transients are only a small part.

Now, are we totally unimportant because we have minimal impact on local economies? No. Even if we only add a little bit of business for a few businesses, that may be the difference between break even and profit or loss and profit. It may mean a few more college kids have summer jobs, which are very important to them.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2016, 09:03 PM   #27
Guru
 
City: East Coast
Country: USA
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,943
It's a sad state of affairs when a town or city relies on tourism as it's major economic activity. Tourism is basically just moving money from one place to another. There's no productivity, no turning raw materials into products, no turning seeds into food, etc.

The tourism jobs are pretty poor jobs and it's extremely hard to support a family as a waiter or tour guide. Antique and souvenir shops can only do so much. And of course, in many places, the tourism industry is seasonal leaving little or no money coming in the rest of the year.

We have visited many towns and cities and a lot of the ones along the water are in this situation. Half the storefronts in town are boarded up.
WesK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2016, 09:13 PM   #28
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 9,013
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesK View Post
It's a sad state of affairs when a town or city relies on tourism as it's major economic activity. Tourism is basically just moving money from one place to another. There's no productivity, no turning raw materials into products, no turning seeds into food, etc.
So, you're saying all of South Florida is a sad state of affairs? Las Vegas definitely then would be?

There are only two industries that produce things, manufacturing and agriculture. Does that mean nothing else counts?
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2016, 09:52 PM   #29
Guru
 
TDunn's Avatar
 
City: Maine Coast
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Tortuga
Vessel Model: Nunes Brothers Raised Deck Cruiser
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 605
Here most local boats are on moorings. The harbor I am in has perhaps 200 local boats on moorings and maybe 50-60 at thee marina. Many of the seasonal boats at the marina belong to people who live inland and only use their boats on the weekend. Transients make up the balance of the marina use. This weekend there are about 20 transient boats here. Transients that take moorings rather than go to the marina tend to spend less money in town. The marina here is $3 a foot per night and $115/ft for a seasonal slip. Of course since this is a tourist area things like restaurant meals are not cheap. Dinner for two is seldom under $50 excluding alcohol. Breakfast runs about $25-$30 for two in the local restaurants. There are no inexpensive restaurants.
TDunn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2016, 06:17 AM   #30
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,915
On the Erie Canal (the buckle of the rust belt) many towns fixed up their FREE docks to have folks stop for the night , and perhaps visit and eat out.

The many competing businesses have FREE wi fi , which is strong enough to use dockside

A loopers delight!
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2016, 07:17 AM   #31
TF Site Team
 
Bay Pelican's Avatar
 
City: Chicago, IL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bay Pelican
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,377
Thirty years ago a study was done in a harbor town a distance from Chicago. The intent was to show the economic benefit of the Chicagoans for the local community and reduce the resentment the locals had towards these Chicagoans.

The study was not publicized when it was determined that the amount the Chicagoans were spending on the weekends exceeded the average income of the town. Figured it would just increase the resentment.
__________________
Marty
Bay Pelican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2016, 07:43 AM   #32
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 5,567
Prince Rupert finally upgraded their transient facilities! Business is booming so say the harbor managers. All this from years of bitching by those of us headed to and from Alaska. Lest I forget, Port McNeil is a great stop. All you'll need is within a block or two of the well run public Marina manned seven days per week.

For us, convenient grocery shopping is on the list. Currently in Nanaimo, close by shopping and eateries galore. And what a great walkway along the waterfront.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2016, 09:42 AM   #33
Guru
 
hollywood8118's Avatar
 
City: Port Townsend Washington
Country: USA
Vessel Name: " OTTER "
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander Europa 40
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,433
Port Townsend chose to convert its Point Hudson facility to all transient moorage a few years ago, it has become a positive for the local economy and it's full most times in the boating high season. The local business all welcome the tourist dollars and it has provided a easy stop on the way to points north. It may be rare but we have a port that turns a profit and provides jobs.
Hollywood
hollywood8118 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2016, 10:08 AM   #34
Guru
 
High Wire's Avatar
 
City: Englewood, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Irish Lady
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,070
Philadelphia is one city that never got it together for transients. If the town planners ever visited the Baltimore Inner Harbor it would attract many to turn north up from the C&D that now just skip it.
Penns Landing cost millions to rehab in the seventies and still sits 95% vacant.
__________________
Archie
1984 Monk 36 Hull #46
Englewood, FL and Cape May, NJ
High Wire is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2016, 10:26 AM   #35
Guru
 
City: East Coast
Country: USA
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,943
Quote:
Originally Posted by High Wire View Post
Philadelphia is one city that never got it together for transients. If the town planners ever visited the Baltimore Inner Harbor it would attract many to turn north up from the C&D that now just skip it.
Penns Landing cost millions to rehab in the seventies and still sits 95% vacant.
Baltimore's Inner Harbor is doing very well. Norfolk, VA had a "Waterside" which was in sad shape two years ago and is now being torn down. Jacksonville Landing (FL) is not much better.

I'm not sure why some of these work and some do not.
WesK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2016, 10:56 AM   #36
Guru
 
Jeffrey S's Avatar


 
City: Full-time onboard
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Red Head
Vessel Model: Florida Bay Coaster
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 805
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesK View Post
I'm not sure why some of these work and some do not.
It's because they miss something critical that transients need that would change an overnight (maybe) stop into a week-long stop. They also lack the ability to get exposure for what they're doing.

Jacksonville Landing is the perfect example. They provided a great venue to bring boaters up. But the long trip past the ICW and the lack of things to keep a boater there meant that it wasn't used. Fifty miles for a free dock and Chicago Pizza just isn't good enough.

Ortega Landing Marina came to us for help - they were severely empty because of the 50 mile issue as well. When the manager called to discuss some ideas, they had 4 boats in slips (there are 190 slips). We helped them with positioning and took advantage of the Jacksonville Landing draw a couple of miles away. Four months later, they were 80% full (4-5 years ago). Today, it's quite full all the time with boaters staying a week to a month or more. It's the perfect stop to or from a cruise down the St Johns River. Often, boaters spend one night at Jacksonville Landing on the way in or out of the area too - but they pay for a week or more at Ortega Landing. Ortega now has 119 reviews and averages 5 stars. That alone now drives boaters to the area (along with Huckins, Lambs, and the Sadler Point yards). In general, some type of spark is needed. There are numerous examples.

"Build it and they will come" never works. It takes a little more creativity to pull it off.
Jeffrey S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2016, 11:05 AM   #37
Guru
 
JDCAVE's Avatar
 
City: Lions Bay, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Phoenix Hunter
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 (1985)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,300
Economic impact of transient boaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
Prince Rupert finally upgraded their transient facilities! Business is booming so say the harbor managers. All this from years of bitching by those of us headed to and from Alaska. Lest I forget, Port McNeil is a great stop. All you'll need is within a block or two of the well run public Marina manned seven days per week.



For us, convenient grocery shopping is on the list. Currently in Nanaimo, close by shopping and eateries galore. And what a great walkway along the waterfront.

Rupert and McNeil are good examples of the effects of transient boaters on the local economy, but in the case of Shearwater the entire economy is driven by transient boaters and one family owns the entire setup. 100' foot yachts tie up there for weeks at a time. But the real gem is Ocean Falls, IMNHO.


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum
JDCAVE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2016, 11:06 AM   #38
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 5,567
Well Jeff, on the basis of Ortega any chance to help out Mark and the Vallejo Delta syndrome.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2016, 12:08 PM   #39
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,572
Transient boaters are few and far between here in Kitimat.

Most people stick to the Inside Passage and don't bother with the 120 mile round trip up & down Douglas Channel, or 240 miles if you go see the Kitlope at the end of Gardner Canal as well. Strike one.

When Alcan built Kitimat for their aluminum smelter back in the 1950's they were given huge tracts of land and chose to build the town site 5 Kilometres inland, keeping all the land close to the water for themselves. There is no regular public transit to town. Strike two.

Then there's the marina facilities...

There are only two marinas left; MK Bay, and a minimally serviced one tucked up in Minette Bay which has a sketchy entrance that dries at lower tides. MK Bay was poorly managed by the regional district for decades, and the new owners are fixing things up slowly. Services are basic and our breakwaters keep breaking (strike three) just ask CrustyChief.

I'm not complaining though, because I like boating in uncongested waters
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2016, 12:37 PM   #40
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Small Incentive
Vessel Model: Boston Whaler 130 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,452
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
Well Jeff, on the basis of Ortega any chance to help out Mark and the Vallejo Delta syndrome.
You are not going to overcome geography.
In the Delta proper there are many many places that are very transient appropriate and transient friendly.
__________________

caltexflanc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012