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Old 02-12-2012, 09:30 AM   #21
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dual bow rollers

My bow sprit is timber with a bronze roller either side, the cheek plates are a little small but after 17 years still have not changed them. These were made from a mould that Rogers & Lough have in Brisbane. They are one of the very old small boat engineering firms on the Brisbane River.

*

Not the best photo but you see what I mean.


-- Edited by Tidahapah on Sunday 12th of February 2012 10:31:24 AM
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Old 02-12-2012, 11:38 AM   #22
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RE: dual bow rollers

LOL... yes too bad the only thing they know how to do is mix a cocktail...
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Old 02-12-2012, 06:22 PM   #23
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RE: dual bow rollers

Quote:
Mike wrote:
I think he uses it as a door stop in his garage.

Mike
Palm Coast FL
*That didn't take long.
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Old 02-12-2012, 07:13 PM   #24
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dual bow rollers

Quote:
Mike wrote:
I think he uses it as a door stop in his garage.

That's correct so don't forget to collect your beer at Ken's retirement RV park. *A doorstop is aobut the only thing I think a Bruce is good for unless you do your boating in a North Sea oil rig in which case it's actually a pretty good anchor if it's sized correctly.

Many newer Grand Banks models have dual pulpit rollers. *Most of the ones I see in Bellingham, as well as other makes of boats with dual-rollers, that actually carry two anchors-- a lot of them don't--- carry two different types. *The most common configuration I see is a Bruce on one roller and a CQR on the other. *I have seen a few boats on the docks near us with a Danforth-type on one roller and a Bruce or CQR on the other.

The couple of times I've asked one of the GB owners how they happened to pick the configuration they have they have always answered that they want anchors for different bottom types. *I've not yet met anyone up here who anchors with tandem or Veed-out bow anchors. *(Using a stern anchor is not uncommon.)

The typical answer I've gotten is they want one anchor for sand and mud (Danforth or CQR) and one anchor for weedy, rocky, etc bottoms (Bruce).

I have no idea if these people anchor out a lot, and if they do if they actually do "match" the anchor to the bottom.

All the people I've met who really do anchor out a lot and have a lot of anchoring experience have just one anchor on the bow. *Like Keith, however, they usually have a second main anchor stowed on board somewhere, usually of a different type. *A big Fortress seems to be a preferred second anchor.


-- Edited by Marin on Sunday 12th of February 2012 09:51:32 PM
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Old 02-12-2012, 08:28 PM   #25
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RE: dual bow rollers

I've only anchored out a few times, and every time it was with the Bruce, in mud. It held pretty well overnight when it was blowing about 15-20kts. No complaints on the Bruce (so far). BUT - I am sure the fact that I had about 6:1 scope out on the Bruce, on an all 5/8 chain rode helped it hold.
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Old 02-12-2012, 09:01 PM   #26
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RE: dual bow rollers

Occasionally, I will agree with Marin. I don't personally own a doorstop. I recall a Practical Sailor Anchor article, in which they concluded that a Bruce would be the easiest to set, but the first to pull out. I wouldn't trust one with my boat overnight. I sleep too well, so I need to know my anchor won't be calling for attention in the night.
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Old 02-12-2012, 09:12 PM   #27
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RE: dual bow rollers

Quote:
koliver wrote:
Occasionally, I will agree with Marin.
******** Occasionally? Occasionally?* Hell, I agree with him 95% of the time! He obviously is well read, well traveled and does a lot of research and admits when he doesn't know much about a particular subject. Do you realize how much time this saves me?
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Old 02-12-2012, 10:00 PM   #28
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RE: dual bow rollers

I don't think the original poster intended this to turn into a Bruce vs. reliable anchors discussion (:-)) But somebody back aways mentioned a smart idea and that's to read Earl Hinz's excellent book, The Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring. *Regardless of what anchor one decides to use, this book is well worth reading particularly for people new to cruising or anchoring, both of which my wife and I were when we bought the book.

I know there iaer some participants in this forum who don't believe that second-hand knowledge, be it from a book or learing it from experienced "others," counts as knowing something, but since I don't agree with that, I will heartily recommend Mr. Hinz's book.

The book is on the boat so I can't say if it covers the carriage of dual anchors on a pulpit, or if he has any suggestions as to which kinds can compliment each other.

If Eric Henning weren't in transition somewhere between SE Alaska and here I'm sure he would howl with protest at the notion of doubling the weight in the bow by adding a second anchor up there. *Depending on the boat, I would be more likely to agree with him than not. *But if one is going to be cruising in waters with a wide and radical variety of bottoms--- soft, oozy mud over here and coral over there, for example--- two bow anchors could make a lot of sense. *Or if setting tandem anchors is a frequently required technique.

So a question for the OP Janis--- do boaters in your area typically have to use tandem anchors?
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Old 02-13-2012, 04:04 AM   #29
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RE: dual bow rollers

Speaking for the Queensland coast and bays, no, we don't. I never have, and doubt I ever will, because unless you were planning to try and ride out a cyclone (hurricane in the NH), there is no point. I suspect Benn, from a bit further North would largely agree, but he says he does occasionally, because he goes to some more exposed places. Janis is down in the lakes district, so I suspect like around here, would not, but he will probably come in and answer that when he sees these posts.
However, to address Marin's query below...sorry Marin, but you did ask....


"But if one is going to be cruising in waters with a wide and radical variety of bottoms--- soft, oozy mud over here and coral over there, for example--- two bow anchors could make a lot of sense. Or if setting tandem anchors is a frequently required technique?"

The answer here is that you can have an anchor effective in all those substrates, and it's called a Sand And Rock Combination Anchor, = SARCA, and even one called a ROCNA might do it...

and I'm wiling to bet, now Benn has one, he will never need to set a tandem anchor again either - -unless he wants to ride out a cyclone, that is - maybe not even then...?

Actually this should probably be moved to the Anchoring Board, or Eric might miss it.* Eric, where are you...?
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Old 02-13-2012, 04:09 AM   #30
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RE: dual bow rollers

The answer here is that you can have an anchor effective in all those substrates, and it's called a Sand And Rock Combination Anchor, = SARCA,

Advertising BS , no reality. " The check is in the mail" Yea right.
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Old 02-13-2012, 04:11 AM   #31
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RE: dual bow rollers

Thanks to everyone for your responses. I'm finding it a very useful discussion.

This issue has come up for me because:
a) my primary CQR is at the end of its useful working life
b) because the original setup of the roller and winch are wrong. The chain does not have a straight pull through because of the angle between roller and winch wildcat. Its at an angle and the PO has tried to compensate for the when the anchor shank comes up over the roller it tries to pull off the s/s bowsprit track following the line of the chain to the wildcat. As there is no bail he has bolted two vertical aluminium "guides" to the front of the sprit. However these have over time got a bit mangled. So there is a fix to be made.
c) my bowsprit pulpit is 200mm (c. 8") wide so could accommodate a dual roller set up I think.
d) whilst Im new at anchoring Ive been doing a lot of reading and Earl Hinz says "When a boat sets two anchors it is said to be moored. The anchors may both be off the bow, or they may be fore and aft... There are several reasons why a skipper would want to moor rather than simply anchor (ie with a single anchor set). One is to reduce the size of the swinging circle so that more boats can be anchored in the same area. Another allows the boat to be moored in a narrow channel or close to a land mass. A third allows the boat to ride out a severe storm where excessive sheering or horsing of the boat may take place when riding on only one anchor. Moorings are advisable when anchoring in a tidal river... in marginal holding ground... (if) shelter is limited... if... the boat is left unattended for a while..."

In "the Complete Anchoring Handbook" by Alain Poiraud et al he is similarly emphatic on the benefits of dual anchoring.
e) I have aspirations when I retire in 6-12 months to start travelling up and down the east coast of Australia (Im in the southern state of Victoria at the moment) and it is a very long coast line with lots of bays, rivers, harbours etc where ther will undoubtedly be a diversity of sand, mud, rock coral sea beds. And tight and crowded anchorages depending on the time of year. Not to mention the odd storm.
f) whilst I have a V shaped snubber which I would use to run through both sides hawsers and tie off on the sampson post, I also have a single line snubber for less onerous occasions which would be easier to set up quickly and run over a second roller thus eliminatiing chafing with the anchor chain.

So it seems to me that there a quite a few logical reasons to get a dual set up. I must confess I am rather surprised at how few there seem to be out there. So I guess the real question is am I overthinking and over engineering this. Should I just get a single roller and and get over it?

The current setup is below:

Thanks again for your help.

Janis
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Old 02-13-2012, 04:54 AM   #32
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RE: dual bow rollers

Jan I think your ideas are sound indeed. Actually it looks like your set-up is very like mine. Even the winch is the same make I think, but a younger model. One of the mistakes often made is the winch in placed nicely in line with the pulpit bowsprit, which means the gypsy is not in the ideal alignment with the roller assembly. To achieve best alignment it is often necessary to mount the winch at a slight angle to achieve that. That fortunately is how mine is set up. You may want to consider that, then you could mount the Sarca roller in the best alignment with the winch and with enough room to one side for your secondary roller for the snubber, which I think is also an excellent idea.
I doubt you will ever miss the ability to mount another anchor on the bow, as your Excel will cope with virtually anything. A spare is advisable mainly for the possible event of a fouling bad enough to have to release/cut loose your main anchor, rather than because it won't hold well enough.
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Old 02-13-2012, 05:00 AM   #33
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RE: dual bow rollers

Quote:
FF wrote:
The answer here is that you can have an anchor effective in all those substrates, and it's called a Sand And Rock Combination Anchor, = SARCA,

Advertising BS , no reality. " The check is in the mail" Yea right.
FF, if I could, I'd send you one, and I just know you would eat your words.* I have no shares in the company - they are just damn good anchors, and I feel I have to spread the word.* Sorry if that bugs you.
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Old 02-13-2012, 12:06 PM   #34
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RE: dual bow rollers

Quote:
Peter B wrote:

The answer here is that you can have an anchor effective in all those substrates, and it's called a Sand And Rock Combination Anchor, = SARCA, and even one called a ROCNA might do it...




Actually this should probably be moved to the Anchoring Board, or Eric might miss it.* Eric, where are you...?
Hey, thanks for defining what SARCA means.* I have been wondering this for a long time.* I figured it was an acronym for the company itself but it never dawned on me it might be an acronym for the product description.

And I believe Eric is most likely involved in his move from Thorne Bay to Washington State.* I think he said they were moving to the litle mountain town of Concrete up the Skagit river valley but I may be misremembering that.* I believe he intends to keep Nomadwilly in La Conner which is south of Bellingham and Anacortes on the Swinomish Slough.
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Old 02-13-2012, 03:02 PM   #35
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RE: dual bow rollers

Peter
A key objective for this exercise is to ensure there is a straight pull through of the chain from roller to wildcat. So I could get a wide Sarca S/S roller assembly (150mm) and offset it a little on my 200mm bow pulpit so that the pull though is nearly straight or I could get a narrower one for the primary anchor ie 108mm on the starboard side as well as a smaller secondary 75mm wide S/S roller assembly on the port side Repositioning of the winch is not possible as the pulpit real estate is limiting and the drop of the chain into the deck entry point would be negatively affected.

Appreciating your help.

BTW for FF

I have no affiliation Sarca but Im told you can check out some Sarca anchors in the USA for yourself if you wish at

Joseph B. H. Smith
Director, Special Projects
SEACOR Environmental Products LLC (SEP)
9520 - 10th Avenue South, Suite 175,
Seattle WA 98108-5067 USA
-------------------------------------------------------
PH: +1-206-378-4101; FX: +1-206-378-4103
Mobile: +1-206-423-2661; SKYPE: sepseattle1
Email: jbhsmith@ckor.com
SEP Web Site: www.seacor-env.com
Corporate Web Site: www.seacorholdings.com STRENGTH IN DIVERSITY

Cheers
Janis
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Old 02-13-2012, 04:25 PM   #36
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RE: dual bow rollers

Here's my bow rollers:
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Old 02-13-2012, 04:28 PM   #37
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RE: dual bow rollers

Quote:
Marin wrote:
Hey, thanks for defining what SARCA means.
* * * * * Ditto....I had no clew.
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Old 02-13-2012, 04:59 PM   #38
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RE: dual bow rollers

Gulf Comanche
That looks like a great setup. Do you find that you set both anchors often?
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Old 02-13-2012, 05:46 PM   #39
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RE: dual bow rollers

I've never set both anchors; the one with rope rode is in exactly the same place as when I bought the boat 4 years ago. The other anchor has all chain rode and that is the one I use.
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Old 02-13-2012, 08:33 PM   #40
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RE: dual bow rollers

Our boat did not have a pulpit when we bought it. I did several mock ups in wood before finding what I thought best for us. I wanted a dual roller set up so we could always have the anchor ready to go. The second roller allows us to pick up a mooring without having to move anything. Note the bollard.

The first photo shows it under construction. We were making sure the 44# Delta fit the roller. Some modification was necessary. Construction is 1/4" 316L stainless. Not shown in these shots is the 1" diameter pipe (support strut?) going from the stem up between the rollers.

You can also see in the second image the windlass is directly in line with the roller. These shots were taken during winter storage so it is not as clean as usual. I have also since replaced the line holding the anchor with a locking lever.

Rob

37' Sedan
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