Drinking And Boating

[rwidman]

Calling alcoholism a "disease" is just relieving the alcoholic of his/her responsibility for their actions. Pat him/her on the back and say "It's OK, I know you can't help it because you are sick" after he/she just killed someone in a drunk driving accident.


I drank. I drank a lot and for many years. I was in the hospital for nearly two weeks and the doctors said I had to stop drinking. My wife called the marina and told them to take all the alcohol off the boat. She went home and gave away any alcohol that was there. I haven't had a drop since and it's been several years.


It's called willpower. Decide you are not going to drink and just don't do it. Sure you'll be tempted but don't give in to that temptation.


BTW: I quit smoking 40 years ago after ten years of cigarettes. Same way, didn't buy any, didn't ask for any and didn't put any to my lips and light up.

 

[Tuttouomo]

WK, congrats to you for having the willpower to quit tobacco and alcohol cold turkey. We are not all wired the same , with the strength of the willpower that you possess.
I also quit an addiction many years ago, "cold turkey", just woke up one day at the bottom of my personal ladder and said to myself, I cannot continue my life this way. That was it, and after 30 years, I never looked back.
For a long time, I thought it was that easy for everyone else. Not so.
The point that you are missing is that some individuals just don't have it that easy. Many struggle with the disease, some beat it and some don't. Some fight it on a daily basis.
I currently am a social drinker and love my red wine, however out of respect to myself and others, I don't operate my boat or auto while drinking.
As an aside I have lost both my sisters and a brother in law to drunk drivers in three separate accidents over a 15 year span. They were all sober at the time.

Bill

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. WK. Commendable that you were able to eliminate tobacco and alcohol from your lifestyle but others are not so fortunate and I reiterate, you do not understand addiction both the mental AND physical aspects.
I think I can speak of alcoholism with a bit of authority because, as I mentioned, I had a very close, dear friend who died of same. I expect heroin and cocaine addiction is similar but I have no experience with the "other" drugs. Towards the end he was drinking upwards of 3 quarts of alcohol (hard liquor) on a daily basis. He had been through re-hab and while it dried him out, he was never able to conquer his demons. He never killed anyone but himself.
I held his puke bucket, wiped his ass, changed his soled bedding and clothes and fed him for longer than I care to remember. Numerous "professionals" prescribed drugs and therapy sessions which worked for a while. He even tried to "find Jesus" but the demons remained.
Was he responsible for his actions? Of course but he was NOT responsible for his disease.

 

[angus99]

Greetings,
Mr. WK. Commendable that you were able to eliminate tobacco and alcohol from your lifestyle but others are not so fortunate and I reiterate, you do not understand addiction both the mental AND physical aspects.
I think I can speak of alcoholism with a bit of authority because, as I mentioned, I had a very close, dear friend who died of same. I expect heroin and cocaine addiction is similar but I have no experience with the "other" drugs. Towards the end he was drinking upwards of 3 quarts of alcohol (hard liquor) on a daily basis. He had been through re-hab and while it dried him out, he was never able to conquer his demons. He never killed anyone but himself.
I held his puke bucket, wiped his ass, changed his soled bedding and clothes and fed him for longer than I care to remember. Numerous "professionals" prescribed drugs and therapy sessions which worked for a while. He even tried to "find Jesus" but the demons remained.
Was he responsible for his actions? Of course but he was NOT responsible for his disease.

Well put, Mr. RT. Many of us who have witnessed friends or loved ones die or lose everything from the disease of alcoholism can tell similar stories. Addiction and abuse are NOT the same thing. Some people can drink their livers to death and not become alcoholic. I certainly can't diagnose him, but the fact that WK was able to quit cold turkey may indicate that he abused alcohol, but wasn't medically an alcoholic. (There is also the phenomenon of "dry drunks," who may stop drinking for awhile but retain all of the other addictive personality traits.)

It's a complex disease for sure, with medical and psychological components. But to simplistically dismiss decades of research that supports a disease classification is ignorant. I especially object to people who piously claim that because they kicked their drinking habit, that anyone else can do the same with a little willpower.

 

[Fletcher500]

Kudos to people who have beat this. I have seen it in my own family, and the results have not been good.

I am not disputing it is a disease.

However, Its been my experience on the water that many people made poor choices, and were not necessarily alcoholics. We have all watched it go down on the dock. It starts off as a "few drinks", and by 6 pm they are hammered , the liquid coverage is high, and off they go for a boat ride.

Same thing with boat rentals, and we have plenty here. Folks just being stupid on vacation drinking too much while on the water. The mind set being "heck, I am not in a car, what is the harm".

 

[stubones99]

All we need to do is get boating called a disease and we can get insurance to pay for it! That's my addiction...

Just kidding, Guys!

 

[CWO KPM]

Thanks to God and some good friends of Bill's.
05/05/2005.

 

[MurrayM]

Thanks to God and some good friends of Bill's.
05/05/2005.

This place helped me immensely, especially the "secular connections" forum:

The Alcoholism and Addictions Help Forums- by SoberRecovery.com

 

[Baker]

I have known quite a few "recovering alcoholics". And every single one of them was an azzhole. One is a good friend. He just happens to be a lovable azzhole. But still a major azzhole. So it is my theory(I know, probably not just my theory) that the alcoholism is just another symptom of an underlying more serious psychological issue and not just a disease in a vacuum.

 

[BandB]

I have known quite a few "recovering alcoholics". And every single one of them was an azzhole. One is a good friend. He just happens to be a lovable azzhole. But still a major azzhole. So it is my theory(I know, probably not just my theory) that the alcoholism is just another symptom of an underlying more serious psychological issue and not just a disease in a vacuum.

I'm amazed at the number recovering here. It's actually very moving and we both admire them. Having fathers who didn't recover we've not only witnessed it but we've been hurt badly by it. Addiction doesn't just harm the addict.

I've known those who have stopped like Wes, but for most it was their third or fourth time stopping, just the one where they'd finally bottomed out. Things like a wife and daughter walking out the door.

There are two divided camps of treatment and both work for some people. For some, addiction is the only condition. But in far more cases it's accompanied by another mental illness. There's the never ending loop almost like chicken and egg for some, "Were you depressed because you drank or did you drink because you were depressed." Regardless, the patient has to be treated for both. We dealt with a young girl recently who had a "drug and alcohol problem." In reality she didn't have an addiction to either one, just had PTSD. People don't normally think of victims of abuse suffering from PTSD, but treatment in some facilities has moved in that direction. Many self medicate with one of three things, alcohol, drugs, or sex.

We're both so thankful that alcohol didn't affect us like it did our father's. We couldn't know when we took our first drink that we wouldn't become alcoholics ourselves.

 

[eyschulman]

I see two types of drinking as the cause of boat and other accidents. There are the addicted and near addicted operator and there are the other social drinkers who feel they are competent to handle the situation. They are equally in error. There should be zero tolerance because the alcohol and any other drug that would effect their judgment and reaction times just increase the probability of an accident and it is all avoidable. The addicted should not be permitted to operate boats cars and other equipment that may injure others just as the blind are restricted. The social drinkers who think they can get away with it should be made examples of in a way that tells others that behavior based on poor attitude and judgment is not except able by society. Unfortunately our society has not dealt with this issue well and every year we have more preventable deaths and injury then many wars cause.

 

[dhays]

Very good comments from you all. I also am impressed at the number who have a history of addiction/abuse but have been able to get past it. I am extremely fortunate that my only addiction is to caffeine.

I had a running friend years ago who was an MD who specialized in addictive medicine. He had one child and made a deal with her. If she was a non-smoker up to age 21, he would buy her a new car. He knew from the research that smoking at a young age causes physical changes to the brain which predisposes the individual to other addictions later in life, be it drugs or alcohol.

Much like the dual nature of light, he felt that alcoholism was both a disease and a behavior. They aren't mutually exclusive and both properties can be used to help with recovery.

My father never smoked and never gambled. He would rarely drink a half glass of wine with dinner but that wasn't until he was in his 50's. He only once told me that the reason for his abstinence was that he felt he could easily become addicted and he saw an Uncle ruin his life with drink. I have always felt that his was a good example for me. I have never smoked cigarettes and drink very lightly. I have never used any other types of illicit drugs. I do not see this as any kind of moral victory on my part but simply that I was very, very fortunate to never have started.

 

[Xsbank]

I like my Guinness but I never use it while under way and I never have more than two at anchor in case some emergency happens. Read my posting "A Cautionary Tale."

Alcohol pretty much finished off my father and it had a lasting affect on an Uncle's family so if you feel the urge to self-medicate, do it at home.

 

[foggysail]

The OP's main concern pertained to his dinghy being "stolen" is not whether drunks are good or bad people. So getting to the dinghy! I carry a 20' length of plastic coated stainless steel wire, the same used for life lines in my dinghy. Whenever I tie up at a public dock, my dingy has the cable looped through the engine's handle, fuel tank, the stainless steel bow pull and locked to the dock.

Just to converse whether all drunks or just some drunks are good or bad is immaterial just as all people at a dinghy dock may or may or may not be nice. Why take a chance? Nobody leaves their wallet on a dock believing that all sober people are nice.

SUMMARY: LOCK YOUR BOATS!

 

[pearlwindham]

Fosho

Have no doubt, I would react in a extremely negative way if any handled my dingy without prior consent!

 

[psneeld]

Just remember zero tolerance can cut both ways.

I know a boatload of boaters who are on all kinds of med or lifestyles where their reaction time is way worse than a couple drinks.

Heck, most boaters I know are so indecisive on the water that maybe they shouldn't be allowed to boat because of that.

Absolutely I detest drunks...but all those that want to believe that zero tolerance is an answer....I feel are completely unaware of many physiological factors that involved.

 

[dhays]

SUMMARY: LOCK YOUR BOATS!

I have never felt the need to do it. Of course, I will likely feel that way right up to the time I have a dinghy stolen.

 

[BruceK]

Calling alcoholism a "disease" is just relieving the alcoholic of his/her responsibility for their actions. Pat him/her on the back and say "It's OK, I know you can't help it because you are sick" after he/she just killed someone in a drunk driving accident.


I drank. I drank a lot and for many years. I was in the hospital for nearly two weeks and the doctors said I had to stop drinking. My wife called the marina and told them to take all the alcohol off the boat. She went home and gave away any alcohol that was there. I haven't had a drop since and it's been several years.


It's called willpower. Decide you are not going to drink and just don't do it. Sure you'll be tempted but don't give in to that temptation.


BTW: I quit smoking 40 years ago after ten years of cigarettes. Same way, didn't buy any, didn't ask for any and didn't put any to my lips and light up.

To me the post reflects a strongly held belief: "I did it, everyone can".
I read that as simplistic error. Everyone is not the same.
There will be reasons for the behaviors the thread identifies. Are the behaviors a stand alone condition,or symptomatic of underlying issues which merit further attention?
We are in a complex area. Whatever the position, the less alcohol abusers on the water the better.

 

[psneeld]

To me the post reflects a strongly held belief: "I did it, everyone can".
I read that as simplistic error. Everyone is not the same.
There will be reasons for the behaviors the thread identifies. Are the behaviors a stand alone condition,or symptomatic of underlying issues which merit further attention?
We are in a complex area. Whatever the position, the less alcohol abusers on the water the better.

I agree....using the logic that I can stop so anyone can.....

I can use the logic that I can moderate so anyone can.

Becomes a cyclic arguement.

So many generalizations and loosely discussed facts....this topic mirrors so many others.

 

[foggysail]

Too many risks to all when anybody consumes alcohol/drugs while operating a boat, especially a power boat. Every season this topic comes up, usually just after a tragedy. There is no justifiable excuse for mixing alcohol with operating a boat. Personally, I don't give a care is someone ruins his/her life on alcohol or drugs but I don't want them to ruin mine or my family's.

Back to the stolen/borrowed dinghy. Leaving an unlocked dinghy at a public dock is worse than leaving your home unlocked because a thief cannot tell from the street that a home is open to all trespassers. JMHO

 

[psneeld]

Is anyone here brave enough to say they have two glasses of beer or wine with dinner out, and drive home but think the same is way too dangerous to operate a boat?

 

[foggysail]

Is anyone here brave enough to say they have two glasses of beer or wine with dinner out, and drive home but think the same is way too dangerous to operate a boat?

I completely gave up all alcohol, all red meat, eggs at the same time some 30+ years ago. My intention at that time was to do all I could to maintain good health. I have good health. So no beer/wine here before I drive home or operate our boat

 

[BandB]

Is anyone here brave enough to say they have two glasses of beer or wine with dinner out, and drive home but think the same is way too dangerous to operate a boat?

Wifey B: I'm not, because I don't. Maybe someone will. I've actually seen the reverse, boaters consuming amounts they wouldn't do and then drive a car.

 

[dhays]

Is anyone here brave enough to say they have two glasses of beer or wine with dinner out, and drive home but think the same is way too dangerous to operate a boat?

Taking an absolutist approach is by far the safest. In other words, no alcohol while operating a boat and no alcohol within the 8 hours before operating a boat (the same rule that applied back when I got my pilots license). BandB do this but make it 24 hours. Others on TF also have a personal policy of absolutely no alcohol when operating a boat and that makes us all safer.

That is not what I do. I will have a beer when out on the boat. I will have a glass of wine at anchor with dinner. With my discovery of ice this year, I will even occasionally have a rum and coke while operating the boat. I certainly do not advocate this and agree that complete abstinence is better. I justify it for myself simply because of the way I drink alcohol. I never drink enough to be impaired. For many, one drink quickly becomes three. For those folks, complete abstinence is much better policy.

 

[BandB]

Taking an absolutist approach is by far the safest. In other words, no alcohol while operating a boat and no alcohol within the 8 hours before operating a boat (the same rule that applied back when I got my pilots license). BandB do this but make it 24 hours. Others on TF also have a personal policy of absolutely no alcohol when operating a boat and that makes us all safer.

That is not what I do. I will have a beer when out on the boat. I will have a glass of wine at anchor with dinner. With my discovery of ice this year, I will even occasionally have a rum and coke while operating the boat. I certainly do not advocate this and agree that complete abstinence is better. I justify it for myself simply because of the way I drink alcohol. I never drink enough to be impaired. For many, one drink quickly becomes three. For those folks, complete abstinence is much better policy.

24 hours is just a personal choice we make, but we think 8 to 10 hours is more than reasonable and we use 10 hours for employees.

 

[Baker]

I will open a beer when we are 30 minutes to destination. That beer is about 3/4 gone when I get to the dock/anchorage.

Now...as it relates to stealing dinghies. I have had a dinghy stolen. I had it off of its dock and just tied up in the empty slip next to mine. I went to sleep that night and woke up and it was gone and there was another big boat in that once empty slip??????? I lived aboard at the time so was well aware of the happenings around me. So I automatically figured that the new occupants of the slip had put the dinghy somewhere so they could park the boat. No dice...the slip was empty when they showed up. SO I wrote it off as being stolen. I went on on my (then Prairie 29) boat that afternoon. I saw a dinghy with 4 kinds on it in the distance. I got closer and sure enough, it was my dinghy!!! I could not exactly chase them down in a 7 knot boat. I did get close enough to talk to them and pretty much lost my cool and was yelling. They got the message I was PISSED and got the bigger message when my phone went to my ear(calling cops). They immediately went to the closest dock they could find, tied the dinghy up and ran....

The irony of the story was the oldest kid was about 14. He tied a perfect bowline knot in about 2 seconds....seriously!!! The last thing I would think to do while running from a pissed off adult and the cops would be to tie a proper knot....they got away. I got my dinghy back.

 

[Andy G]

As always, facts are good.

The following come from the American Boating Association:

1. Boating fatalities approx 5.3 per100,000 registered vessels(last current year)

2. "Alcohol use is the leading known contributing factor in fatal boating accidents" (17%) Although no details were provided as to whether this referred to any alcohol being present in the victim, or a presence in excess of the legal limit

3. 71% of deaths occurred on boats where the operator had not received boating safety instruction. 15% percent of deaths occurred on vessels where the operator had received a nationally-approved boating safety education certificate.

4. 76% of fatal boating accident victims drowned. Of those drowning victims with reported life jacket usage, 85% were not wearing a life
jacket.

Make of these what you will.

Personally, FWIW I approach drinking while underway the same way I approach drinking when I know I will be driving. That is, the legal limit is .05, stay under it. Although if I venture out into the ocean I am more watchful of my surroundings & tend to stick mainly non alcoholic drinks.

 

[dhays]

Andy, good information. #3 is curious. What happened to the missing 14%? Also, what percentage of the boaters have a boating certificate? In other words if only 29% of the boaters have received boating safety instruction, then the 71% figure is hardly surprising.

BTW, more states here in the US are moving to a .05% BAC legal limit instead of the .08% that is most common now. I fully support that since I know that when I hit .05% BAC, I was seriously impaired.

 

[BruceK]

Personally, FWIW I approach drinking while underway the same way I approach drinking when I know I will be driving. That is, the legal limit is .05, stay under it. Although if I venture out into the ocean I am more watchful of my surroundings & tend to stick mainly non alcoholic drinks.

To add to Andy`s wise words.
In NSW state, we are subject to RBT(Random Breath Testing),on the water as on the road.
Two glasses of wine, or beer, over a period, is under .05. The only beer I take on board is "low alcohol", around 2%. There are several good quality low alcohol beers available,eg. Boags and Cascade, a good solution to enjoying a beer on a hot day. I don`t think I have ever operated the boat while taking an alcoholic drink, not even a "light" beer.
Commonsense and balance go a long way towards staying safe. Inner Circle Rum(a stunning, perhaps literally,75.9%) is not good on a boat. You can`t buy it, it gets given to you by CSR, the makers of Bundaberg Rum, if you are "lucky".
Today there are news reports of someone driving a car on a pedestrian walkway,and registering .198! I once appeared for someone who registered 3.2! Some Aussies call that heroic, I call it something else entirely, on the road or on the water.

 

[GANDK2PNW]

arrrrgh....

but but but but...he's trying to recycle