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Old 08-08-2014, 10:51 PM   #101
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I think it is just as risky, but it is the reality of how things work on the lake.

Unlike driving a car while intoxicated, there is no social stigma associated with driving a pwc with a 150 HP engine at 60 miles an hour, 30 feet from shore after a day of partying.

I find that odd. Here there is a social stigma with operating a pwc at any time.
They are also banned on much of the Adelaide area coastline.

Speed and slow reaction times do not mix well.
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Old 08-08-2014, 11:01 PM   #102
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Unlike driving a car while intoxicated, there is no social stigma associated with driving a pwc with a 150 HP engine at 60 miles an hour, 30 feet from shore after a day of partying.
I think Kevin as usual has got to the core of the issue

40 years ago it was acceptable for people to drink and drive cars. 20 years ago you could drive without a seat belt. As streets got busier and traffic faster, this changed and there is a lot of peer pressure to conform.

Although the law may be there, the public is barely there in the case of boating. I for one have faith it will change however our waters are getting faster and more crowded as well. Those changes occur in small but cumulatively important matters. Let me offer illustrate some


1) some jurisdictions won't let you drive anything motored with an auto DUI. Others ignore it and allow boating with two DUIs
Those will be the first wave of change

2) some jurisdictions allow drinking underway and others do not - look for the second wave here

3) for automotive and trucks there are graduated and specific licensing protocols - for boats, maybe look for something based on power to weight ratio - insurance already does it - the regulators are far behind

The problem is that legislators only have one tool which essentially is containment and punishment. Outside the government there are a number of tools like peer pressure and skill transfer.

My preference is fixes outside of government as they are faster and more powerful Again an example - if the manufacturers want to sell water rockets maybe they should institute mandatory certification with or before delivery.

If it works in guns or industrial equipment - why not?

I am not the biggest fan of more enforcement. Frankly - officers cannot be everywhere nor would I want them there. The average decent boater is seriously pi$$ed at incidents that show stupidity and attract enforcement

My biggest hope is for peer pressure of fellow boaters or passengers so the potential parties nearby hold the driver to account prior to a problem.

Sadly the hard core is fixable only with punishment and there is a core which needs attention but I sincerely believe a little behavioural change in the mean time would help a lot.

I think it would be helpful to get a message to our legislators that boating issues need attention and resources but applied smartly - not just solely more enforcement

Some of the problem we can and should fix ourselves and with a little help I can see it happening.
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Old 08-09-2014, 04:49 AM   #103
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The PWC is banned on Sydney Harbor, because of the antisocial ways they were operated. No idea if alcohol was a factor, just glad they are gone.
They are not gone, they came up here to Pittwater. That's not solving a problem, it's just transferring it.
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Old 08-09-2014, 05:06 AM   #104
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That is pretty much my rule as well.

Canada is quite strict for DUI infractions. If you have a DUI on your record, you will probably be denied entry to the country. If I get a DUI as a permanent resident, I can be deported.
We have had problems every time we get a trip to Canada. Crew list must be submitted before we sail, Canada does background check and we usually have a crew member or two who are denied entry because of a past DUI.
Entry denied for 10 years for offenders.

The problem I have with the policy is that we are just transiting the St Lawrence Seaway enroute to American port in Great Lakes. No stops planned other than mandatory Seaway inspection in Montreal. Crew members are mariners, not always angels
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Old 08-09-2014, 09:02 AM   #105
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We have had problems every time we get a trip to Canada. Crew list must be submitted before we sail, Canada does background check and we usually have a crew member or two who are denied entry because of a past DUI.
Entry denied for 10 years for offenders.

The problem I have with the policy is that we are just transiting the St Lawrence Seaway enroute to American port in Great Lakes. No stops planned other than mandatory Seaway inspection in Montreal. Crew members are mariners, not always angels
I think it's great that there's a problem as for once there is some penalty attached. We're not talking the question here of one drink or two. We're talking those driving a car over the legal limit. This is to my way of thinking little different than "assault with a dangerous weapon." We were talking earlier about stigma. Well, we should be talking about real penalties and no options for lesser penalties. There need to be real consequences. Not something like prayer for judgement or abeyance for a year to see if you do it again. Enough that you won't consider it. First time. Because understand each who gets a DUI didn't just get randomly picked out. Either they wrecked or they showed such obvious signs as to get themselves stopped. Go to any bar on any given night and watch the people who stagger to their cars and drive off. Yet, police are not allowed to make stops of people leaving bars or set up check points there. It's not going to be ended because of societal outrage but going to take real laws and enforcement of them. We're not talking impaired here, but under the influence which is a greater level.

Then for those who do then drive on suspended licenses even harsher penalties. Driving is not a right. It's a privilege. And for all those who say they have no problem with alcohol, well if they drive under the influence they do absolutely have a problem as they clearly choose getting drunk over their own safety and that of others. Look at how many of the serious accidents involving alcohol are not the person's first time driving under the influence.

Honestly, the Canadian rules on entering the country are their way of showing a distaste for the prevalence of DUI in the US which is much higher than in Canada.
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Old 08-09-2014, 10:53 AM   #106
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Not underway, not at anchor (have CQR ). When tied to a dock is ok.
After a few drinks we have begun an anchor thread???
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Old 08-09-2014, 11:10 AM   #107
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I wonder what Canada would do if they shared a border with Mexico?

Back on track, I don't think the possibilities of penalties changes behavior for many people. If it did, there wouldn't be murders, rapes, robberies and yes, drunk driving or boating. The thought is that they won't get caught or perhaps they don't think at all. Perhaps the colonists had it right, putting people in stocks in the town square. That might change behavior.

Many DUI cases are repeat offences because the person needs to drive for a job, to get groceries, medical attention, etc. There's no effective way to keep them from driving except to lock them up. That means the taxpayers have to support them and often their families.

In SC, you don't need a license to boat. According to the law, you can lose your right to operate a boat in SC if you're convicted of BUI. But, since you don't need a license, there's nothing for the judge to take away so what's the point?

SC has also cut the budget of the DNR so in reality, there's little chance of a boater being stopped for suspected BUI. The people know that so they drink what they want.
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Old 08-09-2014, 11:13 AM   #108
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We have had problems every time we get a trip to Canada. Crew list must be submitted before we sail, Canada does background check and we usually have a crew member or two who are denied entry because of a past DUI.
Entry denied for 10 years for offenders.

The problem I have with the policy is that we are just transiting the St Lawrence Seaway enroute to American port in Great Lakes. No stops planned other than mandatory Seaway inspection in Montreal. Crew members are mariners, not always angels

I know a broker here in Canada that was refused entry into USA due to
a DUI 40 years ago at age 20.

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Old 08-09-2014, 11:14 AM   #109
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I wonder what Canada would do if they shared a border with Mexico?

Ron - In a few generations!
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Old 08-09-2014, 11:15 AM   #110
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You know there is an anchor beer:

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Old 08-09-2014, 11:29 AM   #111
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You're fool if you drink and drive a boat. If you hit me, and I'm still alive, I will own everything you have, including the boat you so irresponsibly operated.
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Old 08-09-2014, 11:42 AM   #112
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Not while driving and very limited at anchor, you never know when you'll need all your wits at 2 am in a thunderstorm, or another boat crashing into yours!
Exactly! I had an incident last weekend at Three Rooker Bar off Tarpon Springs. We were spending the night and experienced stiff winds from an approaching storm. The anchor dragged late at night and we bumped bottom. Wife and I sprung into action and moved the boat into deeper waters. I never drink alcohol while boating boat period!

Earlier that day, I saw NUMEROUS boaters consuming alcohol (some getting quite sloshed). The sandbars in my area are a popular spot for go-fasts and their bronze, gold necklace clad "lunk chunk" operators (don't forget their ditzy girlfriends in bikinis to complete the look). I stay away from these idiots!
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Old 08-09-2014, 11:59 AM   #113
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After a few drinks we have begun an anchor thread???
Manson or Rocna would be OK then!
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Old 08-09-2014, 03:45 PM   #114
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I abhor the whole Nanny State idea that a government can legislate us into total security or safety and nothing bad will happen because a particular Rule will be enforced. Leave me alone. Act responsibly and if you want a tipple while afloat or underway, go for it.

Seldom do I drink however I'm not about to tell anyone they cannot do so. It's not my business. For those of us who call a boat home, outlawing booze aboard is in my view ill conceived. How are you going to stop a fish from thrashing in the cockpit if you do't give it a shot of rockgut in the gills?

And a glass of white wine with a freshly broiled fish on the magma grill is just about perfection. And with a bulldozer drizzled in olive oil with Old Bay spice, garlic and some paprika? Hand me a glass of something tingly and cold and I'm a happy boater.

Drinking has been done since ancient times. It is socially acceptable. Getting drunk is not. There is a difference and if plain folks cannot figure out the difference LEOs can.

And bad things do sometimes happen at random. I was permanently damaged (left side) by a drunk driver with multiple arrests up to an including the lifetime driving restriction, all for DWI convictions. A rule didn't keep him off the road. And as far as I know he's still out there -- unless he managed to kill himself.

But just because he was an idiot (a dangerous one at that) I cannot suggest that all drinkers are bad people. Choices determine what is right. Drink but don't get drunk.

And if you want to have a hot toddy on a cold winter day? Or perhaps a beer or a glass of sangria while underway on a summer afternoon? Go ahead. Enjoy. I might be having a beer myself. Mine's an IBC diet root beer 'cause I don't care for the taste of the other kind of beer.
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Old 08-09-2014, 08:00 PM   #115
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They are not gone, they came up here to Pittwater. That's not solving a problem, it's just transferring it.
I say ban `em up there too. Ever see the video mashup someone posted of sinking PWC "wetbikes" with a missile fired from a Hobie? Priceless!
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Old 08-09-2014, 10:02 PM   #116
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By Janice
"And a glass of white wine with a freshly broiled fish on the magma grill is just about perfection. And with a bulldozer drizzled in olive oil with Old Bay spice, garlic and some paprika? Hand me a glass of something tingly and cold and I'm a happy boater."

Ok I'll bite. What in the world is a "bulldozer" I am familiar with the Cat, JD, and Komatsu varieties, but it seems you are writing about some sort of fish or crab?
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Old 08-09-2014, 10:07 PM   #117
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White wine with broiled (white?) fish sounds like near perfection. Basmati rice and sauteed vegetables would be nice alongside too. Had same last night except artichokes instead of assorted vegetables.
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Old 08-09-2014, 10:35 PM   #118
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I don't drink before operating, don't drink while operating although I have no problems with passengers imbidding. Those that have a problem with their drinking are not my passengers or crew.
Georgia has had numerous deaths in lake lanier over the past few years from impaired boat handling. They have gotten very serious with enforcement on the lakes.
I read an article awhile back about how many drunk fisherman were found drowned with their zippers down-
Last weeks lake lanier drowning was not even boat related. Deputies pulled up at a party on shore and the kids took off some running into the lake, one did not return and was found in some debris the next day.
I do drink coffee when operating and consider it necessary for the safe operation of my boat but that is just me and 40 years of habit.
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Old 08-09-2014, 10:58 PM   #119
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I abhor the whole Nanny State idea that a government can legislate us into total security or safety and nothing bad will happen because a particular Rule will be enforced. Leave me alone. Act responsibly and if you want a tipple while afloat or underway, go for it.

Seldom do I drink however I'm not about to tell anyone they cannot do so. It's not my business. For those of us who call a boat home, outlawing booze aboard is in my view ill conceived. How are you going to stop a fish from thrashing in the cockpit if you do't give it a shot of rockgut in the gills?

And a glass of white wine with a freshly broiled fish on the magma grill is just about perfection. And with a bulldozer drizzled in olive oil with Old Bay spice, garlic and some paprika? Hand me a glass of something tingly and cold and I'm a happy boater.

Drinking has been done since ancient times. It is socially acceptable. Getting drunk is not. There is a difference and if plain folks cannot figure out the difference LEOs can.

And bad things do sometimes happen at random. I was permanently damaged (left side) by a drunk driver with multiple arrests up to an including the lifetime driving restriction, all for DWI convictions. A rule didn't keep him off the road. And as far as I know he's still out there -- unless he managed to kill himself.

But just because he was an idiot (a dangerous one at that) I cannot suggest that all drinkers are bad people. Choices determine what is right. Drink but don't get drunk.

And if you want to have a hot toddy on a cold winter day? Or perhaps a beer or a glass of sangria while underway on a summer afternoon? Go ahead. Enjoy. I might be having a beer myself. Mine's an IBC diet root beer 'cause I don't care for the taste of the other kind of beer.


Janice, it's nice to see common sense combined with a certain Joie de vivre.

HOWEVER, regarding perfection, could we steam the fish in a little green ginger with a clove of fresh garlic and a touch of light Soy.Add Mark's sautéed vegies with the Basmati rice, or perhaps a Jasmine rice, and I think we may have come pretty close to perfection.

Happy to leave the choice of the wine to you, although I would be delighted to see a nice Pouilly Fume on the table.

If we all moved over a bit and squeezed in, perhaps we could invite all those TF members who are not prohibitionists, to join us on Janet's delightful little boat Seaweed. Maybe we could ask one of the anchor set to bring along a spare pick just in case.
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Old 08-10-2014, 05:10 AM   #120
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My brother and I got hit by a drunk boat operator in Penobscot bay late one night in December. We saw him coming as we strung out our tow (250' dry cement barge), repeated calls on the radio went unanswered. He finally slammed into the stern of the barge. He ran his boat up on Owls head as he was down flooding. Boat grounded just before it sunk, crew went ashore and were given medical attention and arrested.
Coats Guard came out and filmed our running light display and took our engineer to see the barge. A good size dent in the steel hull was left by the 50' fish boat.
We got drug and alcohol tested, lawyered up and never heard another word about it.
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