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Old 08-06-2014, 09:08 PM   #41
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I'm in a unique position to comment on this as I see the effects every Saturday afternoon. I quit drinking about 35 years ago. With very few exceptions, almost everyone in our marina group (roughly 30 people) are very heavy drinkers. As late afternoon moves towards evening the group gets louder, more erratic, some get happier, some get more aggressive. (the proverbial mean and happy drunks). About 3 hours and many drinks in, all would say they are in complete control but as the only sober one on the dock I can tell you that is absolutely not true! None are capable of operating a boat as well as they could a few hours prior but all of them would! Some own trawlers and cruise at 6-8 kts, some own express cruisers and cruise at 20-30 kts. The trawler owner has far more time to respond than the express cruiser owner. The really scary part is that we're all on the same water as the gold chain guys with their 50', 1000 hp Reggie Fountain specials running at 60-80kts
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Old 08-06-2014, 09:20 PM   #42
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Interesting to see the BAC levels that constitute drunk driving in different countries. I think when I first was able to legally drink the BAC was .10 and now it is .08.

The amount of alcohol one can consume is related to weight. The more you way, the more you can drink before getting drunk. Men can handle more alcohol than women and this is made worse since women on average way less than men.

Here is chart that show how much alcohol a man can drink before getting to .08.

What is a drink?

Quote:
...one drink equals 1.5 ounces of 80 proof liquor (40% alcohol), 12 ounces of beer (4.5% alcohol), or 5 ounces of wine (12% alcohol).


Here is a chart for women:


Those charts were from, Drinks Before Driving If BAC Is .05 - Business Insider.

The rule of thumb I have heard for years is that it takes a man about one hour for his body to metabolize one drink. A woman metabolizes a bit less in one hour. The metabolism is dependent on weight as well as gender.

Here is what is important about the body metabolizing booze....

Let say someone started drinking at 2:00pm and drank two beers every hour. At the end of one hour, 3:00pm, the man would have drank two beers but one had been metabolized so one beer remains in his body.

From 3:00-4:00pm the man drinks two more beers, one gets metabolized but one is left in the body so the man has a total of two beers in his body. From 4:00 to 5:00pm two more beers are drunk, one metabolized and the one is retained for a total of three in his body.

If the man weighs 140 pounds he is legally drunk in the US. At 160 pounds he would not be legally drunk but he is close. A woman under 180 pounds who was drink two drinks an hour would be legally drunk in the US.

I think this how many people get drunk. They don't sit down and pound down a six pack in an hour but just drink a couple beers hour after hour during the afternoon and/or evening. They think they are drinking responsibly but eventually the alcohol saturates the system and they go over their limit.

Later,
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:39 PM   #43
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The facts are that there are lots more casual drinking and casual boating going on than anyone knows about. The leos can't possibly police everyone on the water, as best as it seems they try though. It's the heavy drinking show offs, people that do things to be seen, and that's when you hope the leos are there seeing it. If not, it ends up in the paper with casualties to property or persons.

The short and long of it is this: Drink responsibly - or not RT. Boat, drive, fly, bike or whatever responsibly. And this day and age, post things to the internet responsibly, unless you're over in OTDE.
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:46 PM   #44
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If I drink 2 or 3 beers over a 8 hour day when I am out fishing, I believe I am under our 0.05 limit. Regardless of the legal limit, I also believe I have minimal impairment. As an example - No more so than if I had 6 hours sleep rather than 8 the prior night.

I respect those of you who don't touch a drop, but I fail to see the the reasoning of total sobriety being a requirement, any more than a self imposed rule of not using the boat unless a minimum 8 hours sleep is obtained.
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Old 08-06-2014, 11:04 PM   #45
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Drinking while boating is irresponsible and dangerous. No one has the right to put others at risk. I won't even have a beer if I will be taking the boat to the pumpout within a couple of hours. I've investigated too many collisions/allisions not to take this seriously.

I deliver a lot of boats and one of my first rules is that I will not take command of a boat with alcohol onboard. I once left a considerable stash on the dock when the owner did not take me seriously

I am not a prude and have been known to tie one on but not while driving a boat or anything else. It's just not worth it. Even if you think you are not impaired having your blood alcohol content mentioned mentioned by the prosecutor can have a devastating effect on your life.
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Old 08-07-2014, 12:44 AM   #46
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I do not drink and drive a boat, a car or anything else. Period. Zero drinks. I don't drink the night before I drive as whether the alcohol or it's effects are in my system, I'm not comfortable with it. Now does anyone else on any of my vehicles or boats.

Someone used the word "impaired" earlier and said they didn't drive while impaired. Let's clarify. Impaired is a step short of under the influence and two drinks impair you, sometimes even one. It's simple enough to abstain and have no impairment. There are plenty of other times you can drink if you wish.

You look at the auto and boat accidents in which alcohol is involved and it's clearly a problem. I admit to total intolerance on this subject as I think the limit should be reduced and all incidents should result in loss of license and jail time. It needs to be made unacceptable.

We are by no means teetotalers although both of us had alcoholic fathers. But we drink when we have no plans of operating a car or boat that night or the following day.
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Old 08-07-2014, 06:41 AM   #47
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We are all impaired in some way in every aspect of life. Whether lack of experience, lack of knowledge, lack of ability....distractions.

Almost everyone applauded a couple that just finished a 2 person trip that were impaired for a huge portion of it from sleep deprivation and motion effects as a minimum.

While I don't endorse drinking and anything I would be a hypocrite to say operation a piece of machinery without infinite judgement, training human ability is irresponsible and dangerous and puts others at risk.

Ranks right up there with a person who eats right and exercises daily being called a burden on the medical system when they have a cigarette or two a day by the obese, couch potato.

Sorry ...slight impairment from anything is no more a threat to society than what we all do every day...all day long....we all all impaired in some ways all the time.

Humans will never be perfect. To me these types of discussions become less about alcohol and more about "feelings".
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Old 08-07-2014, 06:49 AM   #48
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Old 08-07-2014, 07:00 AM   #49
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I keep a list of all the errors, mistakes in judgment, and other stupid things I have done with a boat. The list is now decades old, it is kept along with a couple of reminders posted at the helm to remind me of how easy it is to damage the boat or hurt/kill someone. It is clear when looking at the list that I am dangerous enough sober, I don't need to add alcohol to the mix.

And while we live at anchor and thus live a normal life with a couple of drinks, I always remember that Neptune has decided that in my case all emergencies occur late at night.
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Old 08-07-2014, 07:47 AM   #50
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We are all impaired in some way in every aspect of life. Whether lack of experience, lack of knowledge, lack of ability....distractions.

Almost everyone applauded a couple that just finished a 2 person trip that were impaired for a huge portion of it from sleep deprivation and motion effects as a minimum.

While I don't endorse drinking and anything I would be a hypocrite to say operation a piece of machinery without infinite judgement, training human ability is irresponsible and dangerous and puts others at risk.

Ranks right up there with a person who eats right and exercises daily being called a burden on the medical system when they have a cigarette or two a day by the obese, couch potato.

Sorry ...slight impairment from anything is no more a threat to society than what we all do every day...all day long....we all all impaired in some ways all the time.

Humans will never be perfect. To me these types of discussions become less about alcohol and more about "feelings".
Other impairments you mention are gradual lifetime betterment-circumstances or need-to-be "ways of life" that occur in processes of normal days; with no outside source of intoxication present, i.e. alcohol or drugs. Alcohol or drug impairments/intoxications are point-of-time personal-intake decisions that one should be able to (hopefully can) exercise immediate control over. If afflicted with an alcoholic or drug addict sickness (mental and physical) then help is required or the daily maintenance schedule of imbibement will keep a person consistently impaired on one level or another. That person has a responsibility to and NEEDS to seek help! If not afflicted with such a disease... then it is the responsibility of every person to not add any imbibement outsource to their mind/body that may inflict detriment their safe piloting (in general or during unexpected emergency situations) of any type vehicle.
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Old 08-07-2014, 08:17 AM   #51
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It looks like I opened up a hornet's nest here!

It's good to see that the "I can drive just as well drunk" sentiment is a lot less prevalent here than it is among the center console fishing crowd.

The statement that many folks operate their boats impaired from lack of sleep or medicine in not incorrect but it shouldn't be used as a justification for intentionally impairing one's self with alcohol while operating a boat. I think (hope) we all want to be at our best when operating our boats. Many things can happen (not just hitting something) and we need that best judgement and best coordination.

I had to quit drinking for medical reasons a few years ago but before that, I would not drink and operate my boat. I would have one or two drinks after anchoring, but as some folks have pointed out, conditions can arise where you have to move the boat or take other actions and you don't want to be impaired.

On the subject of being "impaired", while laws may consider a person to be impaired at "X" percent blood alcohol, a person becomes impaired with the first sip. It's just a matter of degree.
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Old 08-07-2014, 08:26 AM   #52
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Hi Ron - Agreed on all counts of your post #51.

BTW - Taint nutten wrong with you starting this "hornet's nest. IMO it is good to get a "feel of the deal" regarding how pleasure boaters act with (use) alcohol and other intoxications.
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Old 08-07-2014, 09:22 AM   #53
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We are all impaired in some way in every aspect of life. Whether lack of experience, lack of knowledge, lack of ability....distractions.

Almost everyone applauded a couple that just finished a 2 person trip that were impaired for a huge portion of it from sleep deprivation and motion effects as a minimum.

.
First, this thread isn't about all the other types of impairment. It's about drinking. The fact people are sometimes impaired other ways doesn't change the drinking issue.

As to operating a boat with sleep deprivation, I also question that, but again the question here is drinking and I'm strongly opposed to drinking and operating a boat. And I certainly do not trust the one drinking to make a judgment as to their own impairment.
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Old 08-07-2014, 09:25 AM   #54
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Any impairment that you know about and you improperly operate machinery..the result is the same if something goes wrong...

"period" as some would say and any lawyer would use it against you "just the same"...even if the hysterical jury would allow emotions to take over.

There are also studies that refute some of the basics mentioned here but I know it's lost on people who have their mind made up....and a society that has shifted back towards "demon alcohol".
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Old 08-07-2014, 09:29 AM   #55
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First, this thread isn't about all the other types of impairment. It's about drinking. The fact people are sometimes impaired other ways doesn't change the drinking issue.

As to operating a boat with sleep deprivation, I also question that, but again the question here is drinking and I'm strongly opposed to drinking and operating a boat. And I certainly do not trust the one drinking to make a judgment as to their own impairment.
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Old 08-07-2014, 09:33 AM   #56
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...and a society that has shifted back towards "demon alcohol".
This isn't a shift against "demon alcohol". This is a statement that alcohol and driving don't mix. There are many societies where drinking is more prevalent but operating vehicles while doing so less prevalent. Every day you read about athletes who could easily afford taxis or limos but choose instead to drive their car at .20. And they get off with a slap on the wrist.

You're right that operating with other impairments is bad, but that sure doesn't make drinking and driving less bad. You mention sleep deprivation and it's very much more a problem than often recognized. People think, just as those drinking do, that they're far more capable at performing on low sleep than they are.

Many terrible accidents are the result of bad judgment and not being in condition to operate properly. But when one does so, it's not a mistake. It's a conscious decision and it's wrong. And one can't get the lives lost back.
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Old 08-07-2014, 10:40 AM   #57
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We allow guests on board to drink wine or beer while the boat is underway if they want to. However, virtually none of our guests have ever wanted to. They, too, realize the affects even a single beer or glass of wine can have, particularly on a rolling, pitching boat, and they have stated that they had no interest in consuming anything alcoholic until after the boat had reached its destination.
I am prone to seasickness but find that my risk diminishes with a beer or two.
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Old 08-07-2014, 11:04 AM   #58
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"demon alcohol" - I don't think my liquor store carries that brand.

While a whole lot of people know the risks of drinking and driving a car, I don't think the same message has resonated among boaters, especially the weekend warriors who for the most part, it's supposed to be a fun day on the water, not nearly the serious business of going to work, driving the kids around, etc. that we do during the day. And I know, there are signs at nearly every boat launch and marina I've seen, but still, the perception of boating is a leisure activity, and many more people drink an alcoholic beverage - or twelve - while partaking of leisure activities.

Doesn't make it right to operate a boat while drinking, but it is the reality of the mindset of many people. So the question is, how to change the mindset so that people are safer.
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Old 08-07-2014, 11:18 AM   #59
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I am prone to seasickness but find that my risk diminishes with a beer or two.
Perhaps, but there are other ways to combat seasickness. Ginger ale and candied ginger are a couple natural ones. There are also medicines and patches for seasickness.
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Old 08-07-2014, 12:03 PM   #60
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I've been at sea with functional drunks and people on seasickness meds....not sure which is better...
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