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Old 08-22-2014, 10:30 AM   #281
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I've thought of that too
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Old 08-22-2014, 10:33 AM   #282
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I can't believe this has continued. It's like a friend of mine that keeps telling me the same stories every time I see him. He'll say did I tell you about bla bla, I say yes you told me that story. He just tells it again like I never said a word.
Does he drink a lot?
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Old 08-22-2014, 10:34 AM   #283
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Does he drink a lot?

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Old 08-22-2014, 10:44 AM   #284
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what can be done

I think it is fair to say that the boating community does have its share of alcohol abuse and that has led to many serious and saddening incidents.

I have good reason to have concerns about drinking and boating however I am neither an abolitionist nor a Laissez-faire guy. I also am not going to be personal about any ones individual stance. It is more important to me that the topic be shifted to "what can be done" about irresponsible drinking and driving.

People started getting serious about alcohol and cars perhaps 30 years ago and things got better but that emphasis has never really reached the boating sector in spite of the probability that boats are inherently more dangerous.

Legislation, regulation and enforcement all have their place but the most powerful catalyst for change is the peer pressure from fellow boaters or passengers.

That is an area we can all do something about and that is something I intend to do my share to improve.

An experiment on this was tried a couple weeks ago in Michigan and the results appear to be positive.

For those that have an interest in "what can be done" please PM me and I will provide contact info.
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Old 08-22-2014, 10:45 AM   #285
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Old 08-22-2014, 10:58 AM   #286
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This thread reminds me of a conversation between Hagar the Horrible and Lucky Eddie (you know the little guy with no chin and a funnel for a hat). Hagar says to Lucky Eddie, "I have finally discovered the meaning of life". The next frame pans out to show that they were both under the table drinking something with suds on top.
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Old 08-22-2014, 11:18 AM   #287
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People started getting serious about alcohol and cars perhaps 30 years ago and things got better but that emphasis has never really reached the boating sector in spite of the probability that boats are inherently more dangerous.
Actually I don't think it got better. It could. It's better in the rest of the world. But there are so many limitations. Example 1 is a huge bar empties at 2 AM, most of the people walking out intoxicated. Get into cars. You can't stop them .

Long before the 30 years ago there was a huge stigma attached to DUI. You were scared of your fellow churchgoers, your family, your friends, your co-workers, your boss finding out. That doesn't exist today. Some people wear DUI's like badges. And the courts give slaps on the wrists.

The way simply is to enforce the existing laws and then increase the severity of the penalties. That includes the legal penalties especially as those who lose licenses continue to drive without. Sports need to clamp down and get stronger. Let's see, John Brent drove drunk, teammate killed. Wasn't his first DUI, he wasn't even licensed at the time, and even while on trial failed alcohol or drug tests three times. Served 180 days for intoxicated manslaughter. 1/2 year for murder? Now the Cowboys are talking about taking him back on the team. Isn't the first Cowboy to kill someone while driving drunk at 3 am.

Problem is simple. What percentage of our legislature do you think drinks and drives? Of course they're congressman, they're never under the influence surely.
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Old 08-22-2014, 11:51 AM   #288
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The Texas AG was caught driving with 2 1/2 times the legal limit in her blood. William Kennedy Smith, a med student at the time, had unprotected sex on the swimming pool deck of the Kennedy Estate in Palm Beach. What does this have to do with anything you ask. It just proves that education doesn't work. People will do what they are going to do. Regardless.
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Old 08-22-2014, 11:51 AM   #289
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So all you zero tolerance types think Richard on Dauntless is a lousy, irresponsible boater, failing Marin's standards of credibility for seamanship?
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Old 08-22-2014, 11:58 AM   #290
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So all you zero tolerance types think Richard on Dauntless is a lousy, irresponsible boater, failing Marin's standards of credibility for seamanship?
Not me. I admire Richard for his ability, determination, and guts. It's me that's a scardey-cat.

----but I do like a glass of Port.
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Old 08-22-2014, 12:01 PM   #291
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[QUOTE=Moonstruck;259853

----but I do like a glass of Port.[/QUOTE]

Then you would probably enjoy my pot roast simmered/cooked in tawny port.

I enjoy cooking with wine. Sometimes I put it in the food.
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Old 08-22-2014, 12:02 PM   #292
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The mood of the country is now legislated that getting stoned is OK no matter what the consequences. But my goodness lets not drink to one's definition of excess.
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Old 08-22-2014, 12:05 PM   #293
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Even Johnny Carson admitted he was allergic to alcohol! LOL
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Old 08-22-2014, 12:06 PM   #294
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The mood of the country is now legislated that getting stoned is OK no matter what the consequences. But my goodness lets not drink to one's definition of excess.
Stoners drive slower!
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Old 08-22-2014, 12:07 PM   #295
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So all you zero tolerance types think Richard on Dauntless is a lousy, irresponsible boater, failing Marin's standards of credibility for seamanship?
I totally support Richard's effort and him as an individual but yes, I do believe it is wrong to be operating a boat without adequate sleep and it's wrong to be operating a boat while asleep. I know sailors do it often. I know he's moving slowly. But my personal belief is that a boat needs an alert and awake and sober operator.

This isn't intended as a shot at Richard, just an expression of an opinion on a subject I differ from him.
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Old 08-22-2014, 12:12 PM   #296
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The Texas AG was caught driving with 2 1/2 times the legal limit in her blood. William Kennedy Smith, a med student at the time, had unprotected sex on the swimming pool deck of the Kennedy Estate in Palm Beach. What does this have to do with anything you ask. It just proves that education doesn't work. People will do what they are going to do. Regardless.
I think education works on some people, but not all people. Peer pressure is probably the most effective way of changing behavior. When I was young it was "cool" to smoke cigarettes. Now it's not and far fewer people are doing it.
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Old 08-22-2014, 12:14 PM   #297
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............ it's wrong to be operating a boat while asleep. I know sailors do it often. I know he's moving slowly. But my personal belief is that a boat needs an alert and awake and sober operator.......
Operating a moving bot while asleep is incredibly stupid, no matter what the reason and it's also illegal.
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Old 08-22-2014, 12:19 PM   #298
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The mood of the country is now legislated that getting stoned is OK no matter what the consequences. But my goodness lets not drink to one's definition of excess.
Actually alcohol has often been used as the support for weed......how many times do we hear, "It's no worse that drinking." The facts are pretty harsh for the regular, habitual user in terms of their cognitive skills. The lung damage too. And it's influence on a driver. In my opinion, smoking and driving is wrong. Period. In my opinion, if you smoke every day, or couldn't go a while without it, you have a problem. And if you start the evening intending to just take a few puffs and that turns into a few joints you have a problem. We're presented with the picture of the person who occasionally shares a joint with a friend. But that's not what we see. We see those who abuse it. And alcohol and marijuana both often lead to use of other drugs since they no longer or never really met the expectations of the user.

I strongly support it's medical use. But recreationally, and yes my wife and I have both tried it, it's potential for abuse is great.

Unfortunately, controlling it on the road is back to ancient days on alcohol, prior to breathalyzer. You have no quick objective way to determine influence. If someone took one puff off a joint they're likely fine but if they just smoked an entire one, or two, then I don't want them operating a car or boat.

Now as to a boat there are serious potential uses. For that reason our guests all are strongly informed no illegal drugs allowed on board. If they happen to have something in their pocket or purse they take it and put it elsewhere before boarding.
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Old 08-22-2014, 12:29 PM   #299
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As a former performing musician (bars, clubs, dances, etc.) I have a lot of experience dealing with drinkers and drug users. I used to comment about a guitar player I had that he took medicine to allow him to hear sounds that other folks couldn't hear.

The practical difference between alcohol and drugs - Alcohol takes a while to consume and have an effect. Drugs can have an almost immediate effect.

Put another way, someone drinking alcohol will go from sober to impaired to more impaired and to drunk over a period of time. Someone taking drugs can be fine one minute and out of his/her mind the next.

Recreational drug use while operating a boat is no better or different than drinking alcohol.

It's also possible to have your boat impounded if illegal drugs are found on it even if they aren't yours.
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Old 08-22-2014, 12:32 PM   #300
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The Texas AG was caught driving with 2 1/2 times the legal limit in her blood. William Kennedy Smith, a med student at the time, had unprotected sex on the swimming pool deck of the Kennedy Estate in Palm Beach. What does this have to do with anything you ask. It just proves that education doesn't work. People will do what they are going to do. Regardless.
Accually, it was a TX District Attorney.
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