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Old 08-19-2014, 03:41 PM   #221
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Art,

I don't think that Trawler Forum could care less whether I'm an alcoholic or not, so I wonder why you continue to discuss it here. If you have such concerns they would be better shared as a PM, instead of trying to bait and belittle me publicly.

I'm just sayen.
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Old 08-19-2014, 03:44 PM   #222
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People should care if you're an alcoholic and try to help you. If you don't want help, that's fine. I have friends like that.

The important thing is for you and everyone else to understand what alcohol does to motor skills, reflexes and judgement and stay away from operating a boat if you've been drinking alcohol.
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Old 08-19-2014, 03:53 PM   #223
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Marin,

But my point is that the reduction in reaction times at very small levels of alcohol (below legal levels) is not significant....
I am about as far removed from the medical field as it's possible to get. But I suspect that a blanket statement like the one above is not possible to make. I suspect the level of impairment form any "altering" substance will vary widely from individual to individual. Some may exhibit few or no signs of impairment. Another person may find themselves very much impaired after imbibing the same amount of alcohol or drugs.

I've been to plenty of gatherings over the years, particularly when I was younger, when the participants all drank about the same amount of the same thing, yet some remained apparently functional while others couldn't stand without assistance.

So to assume that "Joe" will operate his boat just fine after a beer or two and so will be no threat to the people on his boat and the boats around him is a bad assumption to make, I think.

I happen to agree with those who believe that doing anything that carries the risk of reducing one's ability to observe things, make judgements about what is going on around them, and react to situations that may arise, is not a smart thing to be doing.

Nobody ever makes a mistake until they do. Nobody makes an error in judgement and hurts or kills someone until they do. Everyone is convinced they can handle the affects of alcohol or drugs until the moment they find out they can't.

Sure, observation, judgement, and reaction can be impaired by a lot of other things besides alcohol. A bad headache can do it, a bad day at the office can do it. But my approach to doing anything, particularly something that can potentially affect others lives--- be it driving a vehicle, flying a plane, running a boat, riding a bicycle, you name it--- is that I want as much stacked in favor of success as I possibly can.

So I don't deliberately do things that have been proven to have the potential to reduce one's chances for success. In this case, success means operating a boat without incident or accident, or injury or death to anyone I am assuming responsibility for by taking the boat out.
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Old 08-19-2014, 03:53 PM   #224
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The important thing is for you and everyone else to understand what alcohol does to motor skills, reflexes and judgement and stay away from operating a boat if you've been drinking alcohol.
I do understand that, but only because I've attended training and conducted research personally on the subject. Certainly I haven't learned anything from this thread.

And I have never operated a boat legally impaired. But yes, I have had ANY amount of alcohol in my system while operating.
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Old 08-19-2014, 04:09 PM   #225
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Art,

I don't think that Trawler Forum could care less whether I'm an alcoholic or not, so I wonder why you continue to discuss it here. If you have such concerns they would be better shared as a PM, instead of trying to bait and belittle me publicly.

I'm just sayen.
Don't mean to belittle you... or anyone else... do mean to open eyes if at all possible for folks that don't realize the extent of problems alcohol consumption can create - for them and others. Ron has more than once said it perfectly regarding concern for anyone that drinks too much as well as the effects that alcohol consumption has regarding operating equipment.

I have friends dead from alcohol consumption; both from self abuse and from driving alcoholics killing them. I go way back in the alcohol world on many levels, you could say "I have a feel for the deal"... amongst other things... while young I built, owned, and operated a rowdy fisherman's tavern restaurant along Maine's Penobscot Bay. Truly responsible, occasional, limited amount drinking of alcohol is not a problem Abusive use is.

I say to every person - if you think you have an alcohol problem, it is likely you do. In that case I recommend qualified professional assessment of your lifestyle regarding your alcohol consumption. Then take appropriate steps to remove that problem. It may elongate your health as well as to save yours and others lives.

I'm allergic to alcohol... so I studied and learned tools to not drink. 11/25/1996 was my last drink. I hope you understand what I say.
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Old 08-19-2014, 04:09 PM   #226
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...Sorry guys. I only saw this one now. Drinking and boating, nobody ever saw me drunk. Yet, the consumption of good outstanding rhum is one of rare joys at the sunset and one of the reasons I picked a boat to leave in in my retirement. Some pleasures in life don't come alone!
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Old 08-19-2014, 04:15 PM   #227
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Maybe I'm an outlier here, but I never drink alcohol for refreshment. I drink alcohol for the buzz. Maybe it's my unrefined palate.
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Old 08-19-2014, 04:19 PM   #228
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Is it possible to sum this discussion thread up: 1) If what I do hurts you, hurts me or hurts others, it is my responsibility and if I want to have a drink while boating, that's my choice. 2) If what you do hurts me or mine it will be a dark day in hell for you if you had any alcohol in your system. 3) Drinking while boating and not hurting anyone or damaging property, is just luck and happenstance. 4) Drinking anything any time is bad for you and I am here to tell you to your face.

That pretty much it?
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Old 08-19-2014, 04:50 PM   #229
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Refreshment? Lord no. Water or iced tea works better for that.
A good glass of scotch, bourbon, or rum on the rocks, maybe a glass of Merlot is for the palette.
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Old 08-19-2014, 05:34 PM   #230
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I am about as far removed from the medical field as it's possible to get. But I suspect that a blanket statement like the one above is not possible to make. I suspect the level of impairment form any "altering" substance will vary widely from individual to individual. Some may exhibit few or no signs of impairment. Another person may find themselves very much impaired after imbibing the same amount of alcohol or drugs.

I've been to plenty of gatherings over the years, particularly when I was younger, when the participants all drank about the same amount of the same thing, yet some remained apparently functional while others couldn't stand without assistance.

So to assume that "Joe" will operate his boat just fine after a beer or two and so will be no threat to the people on his boat and the boats around him is a bad assumption to make, I think.

I happen to agree with those who believe that doing anything that carries the risk of reducing one's ability to observe things, make judgements about what is going on around them, and react to situations that may arise, is not a smart thing to be doing.

Nobody ever makes a mistake until they do. Nobody makes an error in judgement and hurts or kills someone until they do. Everyone is convinced they can handle the affects of alcohol or drugs until the moment they find out they can't.

Sure, observation, judgement, and reaction can be impaired by a lot of other things besides alcohol. A bad headache can do it, a bad day at the office can do it. But my approach to doing anything, particularly something that can potentially affect others lives--- be it driving a vehicle, flying a plane, running a boat, riding a bicycle, you name it--- is that I want as much stacked in favor of success as I possibly can.

So I don't deliberately do things that have been proven to have the potential to reduce one's chances for success. In this case, success means operating a boat without incident or accident, or injury or death to anyone I am assuming responsibility for by taking the boat out.
Very true, Marin. It's not the same even for one person every time. Depends on many things such as what they've eaten, how much sleep they've had, how hydrated they are, their mood at the time. I've seen people who normally show few signs over several drinks, end up somewhat out of things on the sofa after two. I know some people that it's hard to tell because they act strange all the time. Then I know some who seem to change when they pick the glass up.
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Old 08-19-2014, 05:51 PM   #231
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Mule - There is also such a thing as "maintenance drinking", a term defining those who consistently drink alcohol; or need to. Think about it.

One aspect of "responsible drinking" referrers to a person who never operates equipment with any alcohol in their system.

If a person is never without alcohol in system and seldom without an alcohol content drink in hand, although maybe not deemed drunk regarding general visual attributes (because they have learned to relatively well compensate for their addiction), is defined as a "maintenance drinker".

Those who drink often/always are sometimes termed a "heavy drinker". Sometimes termed an "alcoholic".



Each person needs to make their own call about themselves and take self actions as needed. Denial strikes deep! I know.

I do not recall saying anything about maintenance drinking. I just finished air conditioning maintenance, bilge pump maintenance and battery maintenance and I do not recall mentioning them either....but those terms are part of my vocab, unlike maintenance drinking. Now if you will excuse me I have to testify, My name is Cooter and I drink on occasion.
Lighten up, some people (convinced genetic) have NO Business drinking but not everybody. I hit the scales at 250lb and rest assured I can drink a beer with lunch while piloting with NO side effects.
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Old 08-19-2014, 06:13 PM   #232
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Greetings,
Can't find it now but I also recall some study that suggested awareness and reaction times improved with an initial small amount of alcohol but also noted things went downhill rapidly with increasing dosages. If there is any merit to this study at all I would NOT suggest it be used to justify drinking.
My mate will have a beer occasionally and a glass of wine with a meal. Impaired? Possibly but not to a level I would worry about.
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Old 08-19-2014, 06:17 PM   #233
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Greetings,
Can't find it now but I also recall some study that suggested awareness and reaction times improved with an initial small amount of alcohol but also noted things went downhill rapidly with increasing dosages. If there is any merit to this study at all I would NOT suggest it be used to justify drinking.
My mate will have a beer occasionally and a glass of wine with a meal. Impaired? Possibly but not to a level I would worry about.
Well, there are similar health studies on a glass of wine or a beer occasionally. But similarly that doesn't mean a six pack every night or a bottle of wine every night is good. All things in moderation.

Now I know very few people who drink one beer or one glass of wine. Mostly they drink none or more.
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Old 08-19-2014, 06:31 PM   #234
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I would like to see everyone's opinions on the subject of operating a boat while drinking.
230+ posts ago this was the original request. While I haven't read every single post, for the most part the thread seems to have been comprised of people explaining why they think people shouldn't drink and operate a boat, and other people explaining why they think it's okay to drink and operate a boat.

But I'm not sure anyone ever actually succinctly addressed the original request, including me. So....

1. I think anyone who consumes alcohol in any amount before or while operating a vessel is a fool.

2. Anyone who consumes alcohol in any amount before or while operating a vessel automatcally loses all credibility as far as I'm concerned, with anything to do with boats or boating.

3. I don't want anyone who consumes alcohol in any amount before or while operating a vessel on my boat, on my dock, in my marina, on my bay, on the waters I boat it, or in this part of the world.

Those, Ron, are my opinions on the subject of operating a boat while drinking.
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Old 08-19-2014, 06:34 PM   #235
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An interesting study on the effects on light drinkers versus heavy drinkers. The conclusion was that the effect of alcohol and level of impairment was the same. The difference was the heavy drinkers perceived themselves to be less impaired.

That's the old "I can handle my alcohol" and basically there is nothing to support that statement. One just feels like they're handling it better. So while other factors do account for differences, light drinkers versus heavy drinkers appear to be impacted the same.

http://addictions.uchicago.edu/carl/...20Brumback.pdf
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Old 08-19-2014, 06:37 PM   #236
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230+ posts ago this was the original request. While I haven't read every single post, for the most part the thread seems to have been comprised of people explaining why they think people shouldn't drink and operate a boat, and other people explaining why they think it's okay to drink and operate a boat.

But I'm not sure anyone ever actually succinctly addressed the original request, including me. So....

1. I think anyone who consumes alcohol in any amount before or while operating a vessel is a fool.

2. Anyone who consumes alcohol in any amount before or while operating a vessel automatcally loses all credibility as far as I'm concerned, with anything to do with boats or boating.

3. I don't want anyone who consumes alcohol in any amount before or while operating a vessel on my boat, on my dock, in my marina, on my bay, on the waters I boat it, or in this part of the world.

Those, Ron, are my opinions on the subject of operating a boat while drinking.
Those would be my opinions as well.
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Old 08-19-2014, 06:38 PM   #237
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Well, Martin, it is not perfect world as you envision it and much of the world really do not GAS what you want and last time I checked you are not yet King of the world.....keep on wanting, trying and wishing. Who am I to crush anyone's dreams.
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Old 08-19-2014, 06:58 PM   #238
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Old 08-19-2014, 07:17 PM   #239
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Really??? Who cares, them that's gonna are gonna, them that wont, wont. Anyone really care what some internet dwelling folks think?
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Old 08-19-2014, 07:22 PM   #240
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Well, there are similar health studies on a glass of wine or a beer occasionally. But similarly that doesn't mean a six pack every night or a bottle of wine every night is good. All things in moderation.

Now I know very few people who drink one beer or one glass of wine. Mostly they drink none or more.
Important entry B!!

That said - My "normie" (some will understand the weight of that term) wife is an occasional one drink drinker. I abstain completely, have for nearing 19 years; and, plan to continue thusly.
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