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Old 08-19-2014, 09:22 AM   #201
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totally misinterpreted as usual....have fun debating endlessly only one tiny part of a larger problem.....back 16/13 out....
There are 12 steps.
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Old 08-19-2014, 09:28 AM   #202
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This argument is doing almost as many circles as the never ending Atheist thread at OTDE.
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Old 08-19-2014, 09:41 AM   #203
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Funny thing about booze is that so many people are, occasionally, every now and then allergic to an undetermined amount... They break out in little a$$ holes after the limit of tolerance is reached. Then if drinking continues the all converge into one big A H.
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Old 08-19-2014, 09:42 AM   #204
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Suspecting..... Knowing means you have all the facts, from your own cockpit at that. Something that only Ms. Sara the palm reader psychic knows.

We suspect there are boaters that imbibe nearly every hour of every day. We know, based on factual and historical reports, that there are 1) more boaters and 2) maybe a higher percentage of those under some kind of influence on holiday weekends. If you're going to have something to worry about, stay off the water in those heavy boating/drinking times. It'll ease your worries.
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Old 08-19-2014, 09:44 AM   #205
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Funny thing about booze is that so many people are, occasionally, every now and then allergic to an undetermined amount... They break out in little a$$ holes after the limit of tolerance is reached. Then if drinking continues the all converge into one big A H.
That, or they start singing. And don't you know their listeners are getting deaf, so they sing louder and louder.
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Old 08-19-2014, 09:47 AM   #206
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I will take the singers every time.
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Old 08-19-2014, 10:15 AM   #207
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I don't drink alcohol while operating a vessel. Since 1986 when I became licensed to carry passengers for pay I evaluate things from a different perspective than I did when boating was only recreational. I felt that I had a greater duty to the passengers that were paying me for a service. My duty to them is to command the vessel to the best of my ability at all times. I do not feel that I am as capable after drinking alcohol to carry out this duty. So I don't drink while I am engaging in this responsibility. This is a personal choice unrelated to the legality of alcohol consumption while operating a vessel. Others may make a different choice. If I am ever involved in an incident where property is damaged or injuries or death occurs I will know that what ever failures occurred at least I did the best that I could to have control of my vessel.
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Old 08-19-2014, 10:22 AM   #208
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Greetings,
Mr. AG. "...as the never ending Atheist thread..." Similar but THAT thread evidently has 10 steps and as Mr. Art points out, this one has 12. The bottom line is be responsible.
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Old 08-19-2014, 01:38 PM   #209
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that doesn't change the fact that any amount of alcohol is an impairment to reaction, motor skills and judgement, no matter how slight.
Yes but is the impairment meaningful? By that logic I should never wear boat shoes, or God forbid flip-flops, because I can't run as fast as I could in track shoes. I assume by this logic that you would NEVER use autopilot because the act of grabbing the wheel and disengaging it reduces your reaction time compared to steering constantly, right?

We're talking about milliseconds of reaction time here. Driving a car at 70 MPH with stuff popping out at you from any angle at the same speed and reaction times become relevant. Not travelling along at 7 knots. Judgement maybe, but give up on the reaction time argument. Or give up the autopilot.
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Old 08-19-2014, 02:20 PM   #210
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In the movie "Judge Roy Bean" the voice over as the boys were approaching the Judge about calling their wives WH.....es. "Tector Crites (Jackson gang: [voice-over] There is nothing worse than a harlot turned respectable. A reformed anything is bad enough, but a reformed harlot is the direct wrath of the Devil."

That can sometimes be applied to reformed anything I have noticed in life.
There is such a thing as a responsible drinker.
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Old 08-19-2014, 02:50 PM   #211
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Hmm, are you guys saying that if I had a drink or two while operating my boat it might impair the (bad) judgements I make when I am 100% sober?
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Old 08-19-2014, 02:52 PM   #212
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Anyone who believes or is fooled into thinking that drinking any amount of alcohol and operating any type equipment is OK - is either in denial... or plain dumb!

It IS medical proven fact that ANY amount of alcohol in ANY person's system has detrimental effects on several levels... the more %age alcohol in blood the greater the effect.

All the other items that may slow thought process, reaction time, and disengagement/adjustment of equipment mat be necessary during equipment operations. Drinking alcohol is NOT necessary and ALL its proven detrimental effects CAN be completely put to rest by simply not allowing (be encumbered by) alcohol in your system.

How can any intelligent person even begin to question this proven, logical fact??? Unless in the insidious grips of mental denial!
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Old 08-19-2014, 03:05 PM   #213
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It IS medical proven fact that ANY amount of alcohol in ANY person's system has detrimental effects on several levels... the more %age alcohol in blood the greater the effect.
I'm sorry but now you're just making things up. Show me a study where I perform some simple task, and you put a drop of beer on my tongue and I suddenly can't perform that task exactly as well.

There is certainly a vast wealth of evidence that alcohol impairs fine motor coordination and reaction times (when measured in precise detail and timing) at various percentages of blood concentration. But there is no single study that I am aware of that shows any significant impact at "ANY amount"

So please stop making assessments of my psychological status based on made up facts.
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Old 08-19-2014, 03:07 PM   #214
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In the movie "Judge Roy Bean" the voice over as the boys were approaching the Judge about calling their wives WH.....es. "Tector Crites (Jackson gang: [voice-over] There is nothing worse than a harlot turned respectable. A reformed anything is bad enough, but a reformed harlot is the direct wrath of the Devil."

That can sometimes be applied to reformed anything I have noticed in life.
There is such a thing as a responsible drinker.
Mule - There is also such a thing as "maintenance drinking", a term defining those who consistently drink alcohol; or need to. Think about it.

One aspect of "responsible drinking" referrers to a person who never operates equipment with any alcohol in their system.

If a person is never without alcohol in system and seldom without an alcohol content drink in hand, although maybe not deemed drunk regarding general visual attributes (because they have learned to relatively well compensate for their addiction), is defined as a "maintenance drinker".

Those who drink often/always are sometimes termed a "heavy drinker". Sometimes termed an "alcoholic".

Each person needs to make their own call about themselves and take self actions as needed. Denial strikes deep! I know.
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Old 08-19-2014, 03:13 PM   #215
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I think the notion that fast reactions are not something that is needed in an 8 knot boat is misleading. No, we don't have cars coming at us at 60-70 mph or popping out of side streets or doing other unexpected things.

But there are times when we've had to react very fast to something in the water. It is probably different in other boating areas, but as has been mentioned before, there can be a fair amount of debris in the water in this area. This ranges from crab and shrimp pot floats and lines to errant logs and pieces of lumber, to entire trees. If the water conditions are good (flat-ish) and the light is right, these things are easily spotted by a helmsman who's paying attention.

But when the waves kick up, especially if the light is bad or everything out front of the boat is backlit, these things, even the big ones, may not become evident until the boat is right on top of them. There have been plenty of instances when we've have had to take an "evasive maneuver," usually the so-called Titanic maneuver, to avoid something we simply didn't see until it was right in front of the bow.

So boating with one's abilities impaired even to a small degree can, I believe, not only affect one's ability to concentrate on picking out things in the water, but can also slow one's reaction when something does appear right in front of the boat. This may not be an issue in other parts of the country. But it definitely is here.

On the subject of debris in these waters, for anyone interested i put a post on the West Coast cruising section of this forum illustrating one reason there is so much of it in the water up here.
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Old 08-19-2014, 03:16 PM   #216
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I'm sorry but now you're just making things up. Show me a study where I perform some simple task, and you put a drop of beer on my tongue and I suddenly can't perform that task exactly as well.

There is certainly a vast wealth of evidence that alcohol impairs fine motor coordination and reaction times (when measured in precise detail and timing) at various percentages of blood concentration. But there is no single study that I am aware of that shows any significant impact at "ANY amount"

So please stop making assessments of my psychological status based on made up facts.
I respectfully say: You seem a mite pissie over this conversation. Is that denial or stupidity to have stated that comparison? You drinking today?? Just wondered...

Please get real... with yourself and what effect an amount of alcohol (not a silly drop on your tongue) does have on physical and mental and nerve reactions in the human body. It's proven medical fact!
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Old 08-19-2014, 03:19 PM   #217
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Marin,

I agree completely that things can happen extremely quickly. Sometimes they can't be seen at all and they just happen. But my point is that the reduction in reaction times at very small levels of alcohol (below legal levels) is not significant, and certainly is much less than other things that we do all the time, like have a conversation, or look at a chart, or have to disengage the autopilot go veer around a log.

It's not the impairment I'm taking exception with. It's the idea that there is something magical about alcohol related impairment, and that somehow any microscopic amount is tantamount to drunk driving.
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Old 08-19-2014, 03:28 PM   #218
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Art,

I'll ignore your incredibly rude innuendo. The point of the "drop" analogy is that there actually IS some amount that is safe. Now we can have a conversation about what that amount is. You were previously stating (in CAPS) that any amount was unacceptable. Which is patently false.
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Old 08-19-2014, 03:33 PM   #219
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Art,

I'll ignore your incredibly rude innuendo. The point of the "drop" analogy is that there actually IS some amount that is safe. Now we can have a conversation about what that amount is. You were previously stating (in CAPS) that any amount was unacceptable. Which is patently false.
Thanks! But, which one??

Drinkers often ignore innuendos about alcohol consumption. Just sayen!
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Old 08-19-2014, 03:39 PM   #220
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......... Show me a study where I perform some simple task, and you put a drop of beer on my tongue and I suddenly can't perform that task exactly as well ............
Show you a study? You should be able to figure this out for yourself.

Nobody is talking about a single drop of beer and nobody drinks just a single drop of beer.

Really, I'm thinking you are being pretty defensive here and that means there may be a problem.
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