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Old 08-18-2014, 09:02 AM   #181
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No. Us "responsible drunks" know, and we're responsible. The problem is many people aren't responsible, drunk or otherwise.
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Old 08-18-2014, 09:20 AM   #182
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Sounds like many here are uncomfortable that alcohol is allowed out on the water at all for anyone.

Based on my guess...if in the over 50 crowd, we have probably flown in an airplane that was flown by one or both pilots under the influence at some point in our lives...doesn't make it right but based on fatal airline accident reports...it seemed to me alcohol was a lot less of a risk than many other factors out there.

None of what I have been posting justifies drinking and boating ...but most of what's been posted against it doesn't justify the "backlash" society has against it either and the thoughts of controlling it (especially in the same breath many here use in "losing freedoms".

Drunk and drinking as pointed out already go hand in hand...but are NOT synonymous....

I know one towboat business is zero tolerance for their captains.... even though federal law doesn't quite put it that way...I would guess all the companies are so don't worry.
I have to disagree with one part of your logic. The fact that there are other risks that may sometimes be equal or greater doesn't change anything regarding alcohol. That's like saying it's fine to use cocaine because meth is worse.

While I agree that the impairment at low consumption of alcohol might be minimum, that does not mean there isn't some lessening of skills and reaction. I agree sleep deprivation and other things may also cause impairment.

I accept the laws as they are but not the lack of enforcement on the roads or water. Therefore, I accept that driving ones on boat if they are under the legal limit, then that's their choice. Over and they're in violation of an established law regarding alcohol whether they agree with that or not.

As to my own boat, I go with a more commercial philosophy and I exclude any alcohol while operating. Incidentally, I also don't allow operation on narcotic pain killers either or while consuming codeine cough syrup every two hours. I apply these rules to myself as well.

I restrict the alcohol consumption of guests simply as a safety matter. Look at the percentage of drownings alcohol related. I don't have a zero consumption rule for guests but I do have a two drink limit. At our home, we don't have that. The difference is obvious. You can't fall overboard in our living room. And, yes, rather than try to gauge level of intoxication, we have one rule for drinking at our home. You surrender your car keys and don't drive that night. You're welcome to spend the night or we'll get you a taxi or limo or have a non drinker take you home. Simple, our home, our rules. All our guests know and accept.

As to operation of commercial vehicles, land or water or air, we have in addition to the laws and regulations, insurance requirements and liability requirements. If as an employer I readily allow employees to drink and drive my vehicles then in the event they wreck while under the influence both legally and in my mind morally more guilt attaches to the company. Better to have zero tolerance and be sure that's made clear.

So ultimately we have two sets of rules. Those established by law for boating under the influence and those each of us choose to set for our own boats.

As to what many are uncomfortable with, there is a broad range and all is acceptable for themselves and for their own boat. Many are uncomfortable with any alcohol consumption on the water. Often they have very good reason as their lives have been hurt badly by drinking problems of themselves or others, or maybe they've lost a friend or family member to a drunk driver. The only way to insure one never has a problem themselves with alcohol is to never consume any. So they take that route.
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Old 08-18-2014, 11:02 AM   #183
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Sounds like many here are uncomfortable that alcohol is allowed out on the water at all for anyone.

Based on my guess...if in the over 50 crowd, we have probably flown in an airplane that was flown by one or both pilots under the influence at some point in our lives...doesn't make it right but based on fatal airline accident reports...it seemed to me alcohol was a lot less of a risk than many other factors out there.

None of what I have been posting justifies drinking and boating ...but most of what's been posted against it doesn't justify the "backlash" society has against it either and the thoughts of controlling it (especially in the same breath many here use in "losing freedoms".

Drunk and drinking as pointed out already go hand in hand...but are NOT synonymous....

I know one towboat business is zero tolerance for their captains.... even though federal law doesn't quite put it that way...I would guess all the companies are so don't worry.
BUT! - - > Alcohol interference with mental and/or physical conditions/reactions is a TRUE Risk that can and should be completely removed when operating anything more dangerous than computer keyboard... and, that too may get cha in loads o' trouble - LOL
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Old 08-18-2014, 11:41 AM   #184
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I think Janice got it right about 4 or 5 pages ago. Nothing like a good meal while out on the hook accompanied by a responsible libation or two.



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Old 08-18-2014, 11:59 AM   #185
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Caltex-I can see there are no canned beans and Spam on your Hatt! What time is dinner?
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Old 08-18-2014, 12:28 PM   #186
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Canned beans? What do you want, garbanzo, kidney, refried or Boston Baked? They're just not very photogenic, that's all....
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Old 08-18-2014, 12:29 PM   #187
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BUT! - - > Alcohol interference with mental and/or physical conditions/reactions is a TRUE Risk that can and should be completely removed when operating anything more dangerous than computer keyboard... and, that too may get cha in loads o' trouble - LOL
No one has proved it a "true risk" in ALL imbibing situations...I have seen scientific evidence that one drink, possibly 2 improves performance by elevating other human senses in some situations. Stess by it's very nature improves performance until you fall off the cliff of (panic or similar)...due to whatever your tolerance for stressors is...

So if knowingly operating equipment under a slight influence makes you nervous that you will be caught...it scientifically possible that stress overcomes any "physiological reduction" that the alcohol may be causing. Plus "worry" from the additional overcompensation may surpass the abilities of the the "sober" but complacent operator. I could go on and on, but most studies will not report true data because of the PC of the whole issue....I've had more than a few medical professionals dispute "the PC world of alcohol" these days. As I said before...logic and reason was drummed out of these discussions long ago.

ALL interference with ones senses should prevent one from operating a vessel. Therefore...no one can at any given moment, there's always something that's detracting from perfection.

It's easy to refute absolutes...people who throw them around are usually the worst offenders when it comes to other issues.
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Old 08-18-2014, 12:37 PM   #188
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No one has proved it a "true risk" in ALL imbibing situations...I have seen scientific evidence that one drink, possibly 2 improves performance by elevating other human senses in some situations. Stess by it's very nature improves performance until you fall off the cliff of (panic or similar)...due to whatever your tolerance for stressors is...

So if knowingly operating equipment under a slight influence makes you nervous that you will be caught...it scientifically possible that stress overcomes any "physiological reduction" that the alcohol may be causing. Plus "worry" from the additional overcompensation may surpass the abilities of the the "sober" but complacent operator. I could go on and on, but most studies will not report true data because of the PC of the whole issue....I've had more than a few medical professionals dispute "the PC world of alcohol" these days. As I said before...logic and reason was drummed out of these discussions long ago.

ALL interference with ones senses should prevent one from operating a vessel. Therefore...no one can at any given moment, there's always something that's detracting from perfection.

It's easy to refute absolutes...people who throw them around are usually the worst offenders when it comes to other issues.
"De Nial" (in pronunciation) sounds as a river in Egypt... but, its effects per person can be even more treacherous than the Nile during monsoons!

Be careful of yourself and others, my boating friend.
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Old 08-18-2014, 12:51 PM   #189
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I just came back from the boat, sitting in the office now, working.

One of the pleasures of boating for us is sitting at a harbor in the evening having a couple glasses of wine, or an ice cold beer or two.

Sometimes we are alone, sometimes people stop by to chat.

I think I'm getting one of those "happy hour" banners that were mentioned in a previous post. Perhaps we'll meet more like minded boaters.



This thread is interesting. We are not drunks, far from it. We are not tee totalers either. We do not support drinking and driving. What I do support is ones right to choose, and not be interfered with by others.
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Old 08-18-2014, 01:13 PM   #190
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Why is it always the "drinkers" that are in denial when I see so many others that are even more in denial about so much too.....

Easy target these days I guess...thankfully there's other evil doers in the world now...like texters taking the pressure off....
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Old 08-18-2014, 01:21 PM   #191
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........ We do not support drinking and driving. What I do support is ones right to choose, and not be interfered with by others.
And that's just fine with me and I would hope everybody else.

The problem arises when your choice of activities interferes with or endangers other people. If someone wants to sit at home or on the dock and drink, that's fine. When they chose to drive a car or operate a boat while I am on the road or the water, they are endangering me and my loved ones and it becomes a concern of mine and rightfully so.
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Old 08-18-2014, 01:58 PM   #192
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And that's just fine with me and I would hope everybody else.

The problem arises when your choice of activities interferes with or endangers other people. If someone wants to sit at home or on the dock and drink, that's fine. When they chose to drive a car or operate a boat while I am on the road or the water, they are endangering me and my loved ones and it becomes a concern of mine and rightfully so.
100% in agreement!
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Old 08-18-2014, 02:00 PM   #193
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And that's just fine with me and I would hope everybody else.

The problem arises when your choice of activities interferes with or endangers other people. If someone wants to sit at home or on the dock and drink, that's fine. When they chose to drive a car or operate a boat while I am on the road or the water, they are endangering me and my loved ones and it becomes a concern of mine and rightfully so.
Completely agreed!
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Old 08-18-2014, 03:12 PM   #194
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Life is funny, in sometimes tragic ways.

I've mentioned my personal reasons for not drinking booze anymore, because I know one equals many and it would eventually end in a slow, ugly death. What I haven't mentioned is why I'm on this forum at all.

My wife and I used to sea kayak, and that was our preferred method of traveling the coast of BC during all four seasons. Six years ago she got t-boned in the drivers side door of her Honda Civic by a Dodge Ram pickup.

The driver of the pickup had a seizure and had his foot on the gas when he hit her, stopping her car fully, spinning it and pushing it over the far curb. The only thing that eventually stopped him was a cement abutment that he got hung up on, causing the rear wheels to stay off the ground. The other driver is (to this day) a chain cigarette smoking and hard drinking guy who at the time of the accident was partially paralyzed by a previous stroke.

The other driver changed the rules of the game for us that day; that's why we bought our boat and I get to read this thread, reflecting on the irony of it all.
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Old 08-18-2014, 03:48 PM   #195
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My daughter and grand daughter were both injured by a teenaged texting driver rushing to get to his true lust (it ain't love at that age). No ill feelings toward texting or driving - or teenagers.

There are priorities, and driving a car or operating a boat should be a priority over having a cold one, or eight. I might have said this before (the mind is the first to go) but hardly anyone thinks it's ok to load up the car with the family and place a cooler on the front seat between mom and dad, sucking suds while you head down the road. But people do so way too often on boats as they traverse the waterways on a sunny Saturday in July.

All we can do is be as safe as we can make ourselves, and be safe and courteous toward others, while still living our lives to the fullest.
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Old 08-19-2014, 01:16 AM   #196
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This has been an interesting thread to read. Some posters (myself included) don't drink at all while operating their boat. Others do and don't think much about having a drink or two. Others have posted that your ability to operate a boat after having a drink or two might actually be improved over when you're sober though I noticed that no link was provided to that bit of speculation.

As one whose boat was totaled by a drunk "skipper", I think it's VERY irresponsible to consume any intoxicants before or while operating your boat. I don't stop our guests from drinking while the boat is underway, but I do not drink and don't like my wife to drink until we're tied to a dock or the anchor is down. I have to rely on her sobriety to help make sure our guests stay safe and have a good time on our boat.

To those of you who feel a bit more confident in your skippering abilities after having a drink or two...I'm glad you don't boat on the same waters I do. You can say what you want and/or believe what you want to justify your drinking, but the rest of us know that's pure bullshiiit!
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Old 08-19-2014, 01:25 AM   #197
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Having been on ocassion been as s!*t faced as the village priest, I can attest that the person imbibing is the least qualified to determine his own state of impairment.
Too true. Heard the expression "Jober as a Sudge"?
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Old 08-19-2014, 08:33 AM   #198
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To those of you who feel a bit more confident in your skippering abilities after having a drink or two...I'm glad you don't boat on the same waters I do. You can say what you want and/or believe what you want to justify your drinking, but the rest of us know that's pure bullshiiit!
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Old 08-19-2014, 08:48 AM   #199
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totally misinterpreted as usual....have fun debating endlessly only one tiny part of a larger problem.....back 16/13 out....
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Old 08-19-2014, 08:57 AM   #200
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totally misinterpreted as usual....have fun debating endlessly only one tiny part of a larger problem.....back 16/13 out....
You are correct that there are other causes for diminished capacity when operating a boat (vehicle, airplane, etc.), but that doesn't change the fact that any amount of alcohol is an impairment to reaction, motor skills and judgement, no matter how slight.

Knowing that other boaters may be impaired for whatever reason is all the more reason to be stone sober when operating a boat.
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