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Old 09-10-2019, 07:01 AM   #721
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Why does he say a banks crossing now would be inconceivable? Because the water is so stirred up?
I would guess there would be a lot of sand in the water, clouding the normally crystal clear water, and making the "eyeball navigation" necessary in the Bahamas, quite difficult.

I really doubt the depths on the banks, or the bottom countours have been changed much. In Katrina, it only changed near islands that got partially washed away, which wasn't hard to figure out. When a mile of barrier island is missing, you know all that sand went somewhere.

But, the Bahamas are mostly limestone/coral, often with just a thin coat or layer of sand on top. I would be surprised to see much change anywhere except near islands, missing parts of themselves.

Be interesting to hear what the people who put out the Explorer Charts think.
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Old 09-10-2019, 07:11 AM   #722
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I think all of the Bahamian dead will eventually be accounted for - the Haitians in the shanty towns, not so sure.

Very sad indeed.
I don't. In Mississippi alone, I think the number was 62 if I recall correctly, who were missing and never found. When the surge subsides, it sucks an incredible amount of debris with it back into the ocean. It was still being spotted in the Gulf months after Katrina. A lot of people get sucked out with it.

And, you're right, who even knows how many Haitians were there before it hit, or are even going to be reported as missing?

The other problem is just finding people in the debris as time goes on. Our secretary's mother went missing in New Orleans. We sent three teams to search the debris of her house. The first two came back one hundred per cent sure she wasn't in the debris. The third team found her there, lying on a couch. She was almost unrecognizable as a human being at that point, and had almost become part of the couch, about four weeks after her death.

And, there was the person, who was found hanging in a tree, a couple of years later.

It's hard to imagine the conditions that searchers will be looking through if you haven't experienced it. The smell of death is overpowering at times. After three weeks, FEMA mandated that all searchers be outfitted and trained in HAZMAT removal, which meant a relatively small amount of people were on the search teams after a while, wearing full protective suits in the blazing heat, and they were soon exhausted. Even the cadaver sniffing dogs, got so tired and overworked, that they really lost their effectiveness as time went on.
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Old 09-10-2019, 07:44 AM   #723
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The 62 were still included in the final count though, right?
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Old 09-10-2019, 07:59 AM   #724
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The 62 were still included in the final count though, right?
Eventually, yes. But, I can't remember the exact criteria that was used to declare a missing person as a victim of the hurricane. Lots of people called up and reported family members who had been out of touch, who might have been in the area, as possibly being victims, who probably weren't. (And, there was the problem of people who were victims of homicides in the New Orleans area, shortly after the storm, that were initially classified as homicides, before a political decision was made to re-designate everyone's death as "Katrina related.") I would not be surprised to learn later, that politics got involved in the Bahamas death toll count.

And, several bodies were recovered that were never identified. The number has gone down over the years, but it stands at around 30 the last time I heard.

Again, unless you've seen it, and experienced it firsthand, it's just almost impossible to imagine the difficulty of the task of making an accurate count of the dead after something like this, or to do definitive searches for victims. A point we had to keep making to our bosses in DC over and over again.

One day, I led a search for a missing employee in the vicinity of their residence (it was impossible to tell exactly where it had been located in the huge pile of debris, but we could smell that there were bodies close by). When after a day of searching, I had to tell my boss that it was impossible to know if the employee was in the debris or not, I was told that that was an unacceptable answer. Later, when he actually showed up, he told he finally realized why we couldn't' say for sure.

Based on the pictures and videos I am seeing of the Abacos, it's even worse, and will be even harder.
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Old 09-10-2019, 08:00 AM   #725
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We had a hurricane, years ago, that effected way south GA. Caskets came out of the ground, emptying the bodies and bones also. Forestry had to assist.... Afterward, those involved were give physiological guidance. Fortunately, it involved only the foresters and rangers and fire fighter who normally worked in south GA.
When I was in McRay, there were a number of 'lost' family plots. Those who worked in the area and further south, had a pretty good idea where they were all located.
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Old 09-10-2019, 09:30 AM   #726
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"I really doubt the depths on the banks, or the bottom contours have been changed much. In Katrina, it only changed near islands that got partially washed away, which wasn't hard to figure out. When a mile of barrier island is missing, you know all that sand went somewhere."

The base coral out there in the flats was likely not changed in any meaningful way, but if you are used to running across the large expanses of the flats where sight navigation is used, you could find a very nasty surprise in store as the sands above the coral had to have been disturbed by a cat five sitting overhead for a couple of days.
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Old 09-10-2019, 01:54 PM   #727
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Greetings,
Mr. L_t. Now isn't that MUCH more exciting than the dull, old, muddy Rideau Canal?


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Old 09-11-2019, 06:12 AM   #728
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Greetings,
Mr. L_t. Now isn't that MUCH more exciting than the dull, old, muddy Rideau Canal?


Indeed in some way it was lol

L
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Old 09-12-2019, 07:48 AM   #729
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Greetings,
Mr. L_t. Now isn't that MUCH more exciting than the dull, old, muddy Rideau Canal?



That GIF took some real Will Power to post
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Old 09-12-2019, 06:52 PM   #730
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High def drone flyover of Treasure Cay recently posted on the DeFever forum.

The Tipsy Seagull simply isn't there anymore. Note that many of the sturdy houses "only" have roof damage - I would imagine the water and wind damage instead is substantial.

https://vimeo.com/358686676
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Old 09-13-2019, 06:37 AM   #731
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What a hellscape.
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Old 09-13-2019, 07:41 AM   #732
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"My Radar" indicates another tropical storm is headed towards the Bahamas.
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Old 09-13-2019, 08:03 AM   #733
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Yep, coming over here afterward. Not big and bad for us. Just some wind and moisture. For the Bahamas I would imagine another drop of rain or wind over 20MPH will just add to the misery...physical and mental.
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Old 09-13-2019, 08:13 AM   #734
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Meanwhile: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/loc...234933792.html
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Old 09-13-2019, 08:27 AM   #735
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While I understand why they have to protect against exploitation, anyone could grab a child in those conditions and evacuate to the US then disappear, the piece that is tough is this:

Getting her child back won’t be easy. The mother, although having arrived in Miami on Tuesday, can’t pick her up. Paul was told she had to go through the process of applying to be her daughter’s sponsor with HHS. In order to get custody of her daughter, Paul would have to collect documentation that would prove she’s her mother — like a birth certificate, government identification as well as proof of address. In the past, this process has taken anywhere from weeks to months.

If her house was destroyed it will be interesting to see how long it is going to take her to get a birth certificate and proof of address given what the documentation centers in Nassau would be going through right now. That's just to start the process in the US.
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Old 09-13-2019, 08:34 AM   #736
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Child services protects kids against worst case scenarios....



Travesties happen in the US every day in family courts. The legal system of innocent till proven guilty is overshadowed by the protection of the child or alledged abused.
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Old 09-27-2019, 05:34 PM   #737
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Child services protects kids against worst case scenarios....



Travesties happen in the US every day in family courts. The legal system of innocent till proven guilty is overshadowed by the protection of the child or alledged abused.
A friend of mine used to be our Youth Court Judge. He said the motto of Child Protective Services is that it is better that a thousand innocents be convicted, than one guilty person go free!
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