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Old 08-20-2012, 08:34 PM   #21
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Twiiested71,
What kind of boat do you have?.......

The Mainship 34 is very narrow fwd w fairly concave cross sectional lines and to offset the imbalance fore and aft he gave the bow considerable flare and lots of freeboard ... to limit it's submarine activities..
Bingo. '83 Mainship 34 III.
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Old 08-20-2012, 08:52 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by FlyWright
Here's a slicer...
The Iowa! A true slicer.
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Old 08-20-2012, 09:11 PM   #23
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slicer

We slide through most waves.
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Old 08-20-2012, 09:14 PM   #24
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Slunches...
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Old 08-20-2012, 09:19 PM   #25
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The Iowa's bow is the antithesis of the Coot's:

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Old 08-20-2012, 09:55 PM   #26
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I like the new half of the Coot's bottom!! Do they match now and both sides are wet again?
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Old 08-20-2012, 11:37 PM   #27
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Marin, You just about need a narrow boat for a slicer. Nice picture. I see a well developed bow wave and at 8.5 knots it should be. You relate to numbers well so howabout a 6.5 on the 10 scale 10 being the punch.

bshanafelt, I see a semi-disp hull there unless you have less than 3" of submerged transom and a fairly steep QBBL. Yours is much like a lobster boat and they are all semi-disp. Rounded chines don't make a FD boat.

FlyWright, Slicer. Notice the angle of entry is less at and just aft of the stem so the AOE is less initially, gets greater before it becomes less. A common feature of slower boats. Battleships are not narrow ships. Very wide actually. They were a great big gun barge w a pointy bow.

Boatgm, Your boat is probably the biggest slicer on the forum. Is it a powerboat or a sailboat?

Blue Heron, Don't see enough of your boat to say much but prolly 5 to 7 on the 10 scale.

Coot, Mark Coot's look'in good as usual. Coot's not as much of a puncher as you think. She's heavy and you often drive her hard so she looks a bit like a tug. Being full at both ends puts her slightly into the puncher zone. A 5.

My Willard is about a 3.
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Old 08-20-2012, 11:49 PM   #28
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Here's Willy at full speed. She's push'in a bit of water here punching more than slicing. But where I normally cruise her there's half as much wake.
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Old 08-21-2012, 06:52 AM   #29
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slicer

Quote:
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Eric--- Here's a shot of our boat going 8.5 knots. Do you consider this a big bow wave or not? Just curious. I don't have an opinion one way or the other.



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your boat is a slicer Not a big bow wave!! My Island Gypsy 32 is a slicer!BUT IF YOU PUT FULL POWER ON IN ANY BOAT,ITS A PUSHER
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Old 08-21-2012, 07:07 AM   #30
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My Island Gypsy 32 is a slicer!
Never thought of our Island Gypsy 32 as a slicer. Doodling along at about 7 kts here.
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Old 08-21-2012, 07:27 AM   #31
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Never thought of our Island Gypsy 32 as a slicer. Doodling along at about 7 kts here.
Guess someone would have to accurately define "puncher/slicer" which will never happen. So we have one of those "fun" threads where MAYBE some intelligent concepts will be bantered back and forth.

I consider my Albin a slicer because at the waterline the bow is very hollow, so at the speeds she's designed to operate at, very little resistance and interuption of progress is made when powering into smaller waves.

I know she's not low resistance, and I wouldn't define her as a puncher...but then again...what's a puncher?
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:32 AM   #32
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Hi Eric,

Agreed the boat does appear a bit 'lobstah' looking from above, but from below, a different look.
That and the fact that no matter how much hp is applied, the final top speed is around 9 knots - does make for quite a monster wake though
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Old 08-21-2012, 12:26 PM   #33
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The elements for a slicer is narrow, low volume fwd, low entry angle and low displacement. Bshanafelt's boat is one of the best slicers on the forum. psneeld I know how you like facts and references but this is basically a relative thing. A serious slicer will have a very narrow wedge like shape fwd and the only boat on the forum that is a real slicer is Boatgm's tri. But if you want to divide up most of the boats here and label them 50% slicers and 50% punchers the boys from the girls could be separated .. girls are punchers .. right? Re dwatty's comment the IG has a bit of a hollow entry that kinda slices a bit but then the beam presents it's mass and the pusher/puncher personality is something you can't hide. Hardly any slicers here. Look at the stern view of Willy at full speed and one could hardly call her a slicer. And if a Willard just barely qualifies as a slicer ... Look at the elements I called out for a slicer at the top of this post and you can see why Willy has trouble qualifying as a slicer. Slicers make long gentle bow waves. And relatively speaking Bshanafelt's boat is relatively good at that. Any boat that can push water fwd at the bow would be a pusher and any boat that pushes water aside at a higher rate than most sailboats is a pusher. It's hard to define but these are some opinions and thoughts. I can sum this whole thing up in one short sentence " Trawlers aren't slicers." One last thought ... ever seen a real trawler (as in fishing Trawler) that was/is a slicer?
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Old 08-21-2012, 12:31 PM   #34
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Quote:
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The elements for a slicer is narrow, low volume fwd, low entry angle and low displacement. Bshanafelt's boat is one of the best slicers on the forum. psneeld I know how you like facts and references but this is basically a relative thing. A serious slicer will have a very narrow wedge like shape fwd and the only boat on the forum that is a real slicer is Boatgm's tri. But if you want to divide up most of the boats here and label them 50% slicers and 50% punchers the boys from the girls could be separated .. girls are punchers .. right? Re dwatty's comment the IG has a bit of a hollow entry that kinda slices a bit but then the beam presents it's mass and the pusher/puncher personality is something you can't hide. Hardly any slicers here. Look at the stern view of Willy at full speed and one could hardly call her a slicer. And if a Willard just barely qualifies as a slicer ... Look at the elements I called out for a slicer at the top of this post and you can see why Willy has trouble qualifying as a slicer. Slicers make long gentle bow waves. And relatively speaking Bshanafelt's boat is relatively good at that. Any boat that can push water fwd at the bow would be a pusher and any boat that pushes water aside at a higher rate than most sailboats is a pusher. It's hard to define but these are some opinions and thoughts. I can sum this whole thing up in one short sentence " Trawlers aren't slicers." One last thought ... ever seen a real trawler (as in fishing Trawler) that was/is a slicer?
as I said..there's no "real definition" so we are just having fun.

My definition of your concept would best be described as "low resistance boats"...not necessarily slicers and dicers... read this and you'll understand where I'm coming from...

Low-Resistance Boats: Build 24 Boats That Move Easily Through the Water [Paperback]

Thomas Firth Jones
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But my boat has never once given me a "shudder" which I would associate with a "puncher"...then again I neither try to push her to 10 knots or are stupid enough to get caught in waves big enough to break into her bow with that much force (yet) and even then many of the other boats you are probabltthinking of would feel a shudder too.

So at some point most all boats are slicers and at other points punchers...unless you have a boat like a Hobie Cat....
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Old 08-21-2012, 01:02 PM   #35
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Eric, I still smile everytime I see a picture of Willy on the water. That boat is just right.
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Old 08-21-2012, 03:29 PM   #36
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psneeld,
Much agreement but look at the boat low on the cover of Low Resistance Boats book and you will see a slicer boat. Notice how the water running up the side of the boat dos'nt splash back onto the water until well aft of the stem. The opposite would be a tug where some water from the bow wave is destined to splash back onto the surface of the water directly in front of the boat.
"as I said..there's no "real definition" so we are just having fun."
Yes. And fun is good. I've noticed the guy that started this ran away.
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Old 08-21-2012, 07:37 PM   #37
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I have posted this shot before but didn't have it in this iPad until today. This is a shot of Spray, the prototype for the Grand Banks 36, the first model American Marine made in their Grand Banks line of boats that was started in wood in 1966. American Marine in Kowloon (across the bay from Hong Kong) commissioned naval architect Kenneth Smith in the early 60s to design the prototype for a new line of boats American Marine came to call "Dependable Diesel Cruisers." (American Marine never used the term '"trawler" to describe any of their boats since they weren't and aren't.) IIRC, Spray was launched in 1964.

While the production model of the GB36 had a somewhat different house design, the hull was identical to Smith's hull for Spray.

This is Spray at speed. She is a single-engine boat but I can't remember what she had for an engine. I don't believe it was an FL120 but it was an engine of similar size and power.

In any event, this is what our hull would look like at the same speed since our hull is identical to Spray's. Whether this is knifing or punching I have no idea, but it looks like a pretty clean entry to me.


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Old 08-21-2012, 08:03 PM   #38
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Pretty "punchy". Probably doing about 7 kts here, not enough to make the stern squat much. With genset, thruster, etc installed forward, I think a lot of the Taiwanese boats tend to go bow-down like this. Cannot recall how much is in the fuel/water tanks when this was shot, but we typically have to clean our "Pamlico mustache" where the tannin-filled bow wave stains the hull.
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:10 PM   #39
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I am a puncher for sure. When I brought my boat up from San Francisco to Vancouver, we had 20-35 knot winds for about 40 hours of the trip and had some decent seas around a couple of the infamous Cape's. This video is just approaching Cape Mendocino. For the 125 or so hours of the trip, I think I had my windshield wipers on for maybe 20 minutes...the bow punched and threw the waves to the side. Now surfing down 12 footers and taking them on the beam...well, I did not have video for that. I was too busy pooping my drawers
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Old 08-21-2012, 11:55 PM   #40
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So baldpaul was it fun? Sounds like a long hard run.

ARoss, sounds like good calls all. I've always like the CHB 34s except for the FG structural issues I hear about. I think the CHB is a little closer to a full disp hull than most other trawlers. Yes it does look heavy and I've noticed lots of trawlers trim bow down and even run that way. I wonder how many have fuel or water tanks all the way aft? My Willy comes up several inches when I fill the 2 50 gal water tanks aft. I try to not run the boat empty. It runs bow down stern up. Most trawlers won't change trim as much as Willy.

Marin I can't believe that boat in your post is the same hull as yours. It's about as much a slicer as any trawler would be. All I can say is that it (Spray) must be about 1/2 the displacement as a normal GB 36. Also it looks like it's making about 15 knots and I know it would take LOTS of power especially w a single screw to go that fast on a regular 36. Looks great in the picture though.
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