Dock lines

[Steve Puglisi]

Ah yes, that's where the snubbers come into play. Well wrapped (4 turns) and 18" in length seem to be a good combination for allowing plenty of give. We recently encountered 45 kt winds at Friday Harbor. So strong that we needed the boat hook to pull us close enough to the upwind dock to allow for boarding.

 

[danderer]

We're learning that tossing our normal lines (3/4"? 7/8"?) isn't that easy.

Turns out our lines are 1". No wonder they seem heavy.

Will probably go to 3/4" double-braid from a quality source and keep the 1" for storm backups.

 

[Bryant]

There seems to be a difference of opinion on philosophy here. More stretch vs less stretch. I’ve been boating for over 50 years so I thought I had a good feel for dock lines but my recent experience with hurricane Sally makes me question my thoughts. Who has undergone a hurricane in the slip with success and what lines served you well? Seems like oversized lines with more stretch would be better but I don’t know. Stretch, with snubbers, less stretch with snubbers, less or more without snubbers? My current thoughts are The best New England Ropes that stretch and adding snubbers might be the answer. Thoughts?

 

[psneeld]

Tying up for a hurricane and day to day docking in my mind are 2 different things.

 

[Hippocampus]

Was taught eye splices in dock lines is a bad idea. Thinking is you can’t undo a splice. If the line is under load you can’t detach it. If for any reason (someone entangled, need to let go quickly, whatever) you’re out of luck. Even after being loaded a bowline can be untied.
Was taught not to use nylon once you’re over around 30k displacement. Rather put in a snubber.
Was taught runs should be chafe free. Chafing gear shouldn’t be necessary except on occasion where you’re forced to use dock or commercial cleats in disrepair. Anything will serve for that even a cloth or bit of rag.
Sometimes you need really long dock lines. Usually you can string 2 or three together and that will serve. But sometimes you need to throw the line or you want to loop it back to you ( around a cleat or a piling) and having a knot would prevent it coming back to you smoothly. So we do carry two very long lines for just that purpose.
New Bedford is close to my dirt dwelling. Go there and buy tails of spools or other orders. Cut it to the length I want. Back splice or whip ends depending on what it is. Good to go. Salt crystals cut nylon. As they are bought “right” not reluctant to recycle to home use or just toss them after a few years of use. Have not been buying dock lines. Buy rope to be used as dock.ines. Pennies add up and the prepackaged dock lines are a unnecessary expense in my view.

 

[Steve Puglisi]

We're told, and it is true, that 3 strand stretches more than double braid but double braid is a bit stronger. Double braid also has a softer hand and is less inclined to twist. When it comes to stretch overall with the use of snubbers. The 18" mooring snubbers (Sea Dog, West Marine, Taylor Made and others) will provide for 8" or more in stretch, even when the dock line length, cleat to cleat, is only 4 feet or so. A tight fit along the dock in general and plenty of stretch when needed.

 

[Hippocampus]

Another thing that has puzzled me is where you want the weakest link. Do you want your cleat to fail or rip out of the deck or the line to fail? When in a slip when there’s strong winds or waves like a cobweb of lines going to every available strong point not just cleats. Yes you double lines on cleats to get springs and such but with a bit of thought there’s other places to secure lines as well. Other approach is to trust your cleats and put the strongest line possible on them. Cleat backing is one of things I look at critically. Large washers make me worried. Like solid layup with large backing plates. Cleat installation is a go/no go factor when buying a boat IMHO.

 

[Steve Puglisi]

I agree. A failed cleat also becomes a murderous missile. I try to use as many separate cleats as possible, both on the boat and on the dock. Thereby reducing the actual load on any one feature, be it the cleat or the line itself. Wind on the bow or stern create a different circumstance where the opposing lines (either bow or stern) are of little use other than stabilizing side drift. Wind on the beam is where you are best able to divide the load among stern, bow and breast line with spring lines containing the front to back action.

 

[OldDan1943]

It is only my opinion but, I put the eye over the piling (low, less flexing of the piling)control the line on the boat. If you need to double up, again, control the line on the boat.

 

[Snapdragon III]

My theory is that in the Pacific NW the UV isn't that bad, and dock lines last a really long time if chafe protected, but it rains all the time and everything turns green in the winter. Black lines hide the green funk much better so they are my first choice. I have recently experimented with bright green twisted 3 strand that is super cheap, and I notice all the workboats around here seem to use. It seems to work fine, but is kind of stiff and not too satisfying on the hands. It is good enough though that I will probably use it going forward for my home dock lines, that I leave on the dock when I go out. My marina gets a lot of wave and wake action, and chafe is an issue. We have fingers on both sides of the boat, so you end up with 8 dock lines. Super cheap x 8 seems appealing.

 

[Bryant]

Tying up for a hurricane and day to day docking in my mind are 2 different things.

It would be if you live 20 minutes from your marina. However, if you are a remote owner, they have to be one and the same. No matter how accurate the forecasting, or how much warning there is, for a multitude of reasons, there are times when you just can’t get to your boat so you have to be prepared, on a day to day basis, for the worst. Either way, the original question dealt with the best lines for heavy weather.

 

[CarlF]

I've been buying Buccaneer braided dock lines from Defender for the last five years. US made. Mil-spec. Extremely good pricing for this quality. After five years in the sun the rope hasn't stiffened at all.

Large 12" eye - beautifully spliced.

Defender has the lines in many different colors, diameters, and lengths

https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=1410245

 

[psneeld]

It would be if you live 20 minutes from your marina. However, if you are a remote owner, they have to be one and the same. No matter how accurate the forecasting, or how much warning there is, for a multitude of reasons, there are times when you just can’t get to your boat so you have to be prepared, on a day to day basis, for the worst. Either way, the original question dealt with the best lines for heavy weather.

Actually here is the OP...YOUR OP (post #1).....

"What are the best dock lines available?"


and that was all it said.


And again...if you don't live in a hurricane area or it's not hurricane season or if you dock well inland....etc...etc... daily docking for many or those that have to tie a boat up and move away for months....are 2 different things in my opinion.

Not everyone here has the same situation and whether you use more lines, thicker lines, different chafe protection....how does that affect "what are the best dock lines available?".

The hurricane comment was directed at a specific post that was JUST talking storm situation...

 

[Nomad Willy]

Sofa King Fishy wrote;
“Black has better UV resistance, so I’ve been told.”

That’s interesting. But I assume like other black things black soaks up considerably more heat. Not trying to make a point .. just saying.

As far as I know I’ve not experienced my boat lines degraded re strength. I have had flat nylon tie-downs go south and had to replace them. Perhaps it’s the exposure as w a round line the inside is not exposed to the sunlight whereas the flat straps are. But I’ve got 5/8ths brait dock lines that is big for a 30’ boat.

For appearance I like the gold lines I’m using for springs now but they have so much stretch they probably aren’t suitable for other uses.

 

[Bacchus]

Eric
I can't confirm whether "black lines matter"...(don't know if thats politically correct or not?)
I only have a couple and they get used for locking.
I can confirm that black zippers will outlast white and I have to assume it is due to UV.

 

[backinblue]

I like double-braided nylon. Some stretch but minimal, very strong but easy to handle. For the record, mine are black too.

 

[balder8]

Hello Everybody,

One suggestion, may be stupid: I read that tugboats or some workboats, as well cruise ships are now using dyneema with another part, a softer mooring portion on the mooring cleat.

Balder VIII, my trawler, is more or less 60', 60 metric tons and we are only two aboard. We have very thick mooring lines from a fishery supply for winter and when underway, are using more lighter lines, but still very heavy...

For my paravane rig, I use 10 mm Dyneema, as well for my dinghy crane on flybridge. These ropes are so solid, soft and easy to splice!
They are not cheap as well, but less space on deck.

 

[Nepidae]

Dock Lines

The best dock lines are debatable on a couple of fronts, BUT, going on the basis that the dock lines manufactured by the big boys are about the same then you look to other means to save money.

Last yr I bought lines from The Rope Store in Trenton, ON. Here is the website (Online Rope Store, www.onlineropestore.com).

I met Norm, the owner, in '19 while on the Loop. I watch the lines being made and in discussing with Norm the manufacturer of lines he offered that in a business he owned previously he actually made lines for Samson, New England & others when they needed help.

He's the kicker, Norm & The Rope Store are in Canada. For a little while longer, probably until Jan 20, 21, there is a 30% exchange rate with Canada.

Call up Norm, order your lines (another advantage you can select the size of the eyes and also the color you want) and with a CC which you don't pay an exchange rate on (my USAA card is that way), you get your lines at a 30% discount (yes you do pay for shipping but you still will save money).

Seems like a good deal to me and I will always buy my lines from Norm.

Just a thought for you.

 

[ghost]

Was taught eye splices in dock lines is a bad idea. Thinking is you can’t undo a splice. If the line is under load you can’t detach it. If for any reason (someone entangled, need to let go quickly, whatever) you’re out of luck. Even after being loaded a bowline can be untied.
Was taught not to use nylon once you’re over around 30k displacement. Rather put in a snubber.
Was taught runs should be chafe free. Chafing gear shouldn’t be necessary except on occasion where you’re forced to use dock or commercial cleats in disrepair. Anything will serve for that even a cloth or bit of rag.
Sometimes you need really long dock lines. Usually you can string 2 or three together and that will serve. But sometimes you need to throw the line or you want to loop it back to you ( around a cleat or a piling) and having a knot would prevent it coming back to you smoothly. So we do carry two very long lines for just that purpose.
New Bedford is close to my dirt dwelling. Go there and buy tails of spools or other orders. Cut it to the length I want. Back splice or whip ends depending on what it is. Good to go. Salt crystals cut nylon. As they are bought “right” not reluctant to recycle to home use or just toss them after a few years of use. Have not been buying dock lines. Buy rope to be used as dock.ines. Pennies add up and the prepackaged dock lines are a unnecessary expense in my view.

You need to consider “all” the factors at play. You might not be able to loosen the dock side of the line if using an eye splice, that much is true. But if you use the eye splice on the dock, the otters are much much less likely to take a dump on your lines. I’ve got newb big boat owner neighbors who (unknowingly?) nicely coiled their lines on the dock recently. On Saturday I witnessed what must have been a pile that was at least 8 inches tall on the rather nice otter-potti they left out for them. Three nicely coiled lines. Three piles of excrement on their brand new lines.

 

[OldDan1943]

LOL Now thanks to the otters, they are seasoned lines.

 

[Hippocampus]

Ghost unless the otter has a great sense of balance don’t him sitting on a knot over the water to dump. Maybe wrong I had a cat who would pee in the toilet in preference to his litter box even when the seat was up. That was true regardless of how often the box was changed. Think he liked the noise after watching me pee many times first.
We have cormorants. Dear lord how I hate them.

 

[ghost]

Ghost unless the otter has a great sense of balance don’t him sitting on a knot over the water to dump. Maybe wrong I had a cat who would pee in the toilet in preference to his litter box even when the seat was up. That was true regardless of how often the box was changed. Think he liked the noise after watching me pee many times first.
We have cormorants. Dear lord how I hate them.

I see you also like to live dangerously.

 

[markpierce]

My ten-year-old decklines still hold up. Use three lines both port and starboard. And if any one breaks, they are backed up.

 

[R lucky]

+1 for cajunrope.com. I bought a full set of 3/4" nylon double braided lines (their Standard Docklines) from them about 7 years ago based on a forum post here, and while I use chafe guards, the lines are all in near perfect condition.

Unfortunately I decided to get them in white to go with my shiny new paint job at the time . The paint job still looks great, but ever since then my hobby has been scrubbing dock lines. Next time... BLACK.

 

[stubones99]

Many black lines have a higher breaking strength since the color pigment does not have the same strength as black does.
In black zip ties (also black cable insulation), the carbon in the formula blocks the UV and slows down UV damage.

I contacted New England Ropes regarding line color & line strength...
What I got back was opposite what I had been taught years ago:

Dock lines will lose a small amount of strength due to the color. Loss of strength is not due to any specific color but all colors. White retains the best strength.

When fiber is extruded with a color, we see approximately 4-6% degradation of tensile strength.

The color black is most resistant to UV. Over time you may see a little better long-term strength retention due to color fastness.


So, what the new standard is white is strongest, but black is longer lasting due to UV protection.

 

[Comodave]

I contacted New England Ropes regarding line color & line strength...
What I got back was opposite what I had been taught years ago:

Dock lines will lose a small amount of strength due to the color. Loss of strength is not due to any specific color but all colors. White retains the best strength.

When fiber is extruded with a color, we see approximately 4-6% degradation of tensile strength.

The color black is most resistant to UV. Over time you may see a little better long-term strength retention due to color fastness.


So, what the new standard is white is strongest, but black is longer lasting due to UV protection.

That is what I have always understood.

 

[Bryant]

Actually here is the OP...YOUR OP (post #1).....

"What are the best dock lines available?"


and that was all it said.


And again...if you don't live in a hurricane area or it's not hurricane season or if you dock well inland....etc...etc... daily docking for many or those that have to tie a boat up and move away for months....are 2 different things in my opinion.

Not everyone here has the same situation and whether you use more lines, thicker lines, different chafe protection....how does that affect "what are the best dock lines available?".

The hurricane comment was directed at a specific post that was JUST talking storm situation...

Perhaps I should have been more specific with my question, although apparently, you are the only one that didn’t get it, because I got a lot of helpful input. Let me s’plain it to you, Lucy.
My boat is in a hurricane area, on the Gulf Coast and I’m a remote owner so in my mind, “best” is strongest that will hold fast during a tropical depression or cat 1 or 2 hurricane. A direct hit by a stronger storm won’t really matter.
I don’t get your lack of understanding of my question. “Best” Is “Best made”, wherever it is or under any circumstances, in others opinions, which is why this forum exists in the first place; free and easy exchange of ideas and information to questions. This doesn’t exist for people like you to bolster your ego and provide you with a forum to display your self imposed superiority.
My question was “what are the best lines made, in people’s opinions”?
Your smartass, condescending “faceslap” comment was quite helpful, though. The “so cool “ comment was also really helpful.
But thanks for your input.

 

[wkearney99]

Your smartass, condescending “faceslap” comment was quite helpful, though. The “so cool “ comment was also really helpful.
But thanks for your input.

Par for the course, sad to say.

 

[Bryant]

I contacted New England Ropes regarding line color & line strength...
What I got back was opposite what I had been taught years ago:

Dock lines will lose a small amount of strength due to the color. Loss of strength is not due to any specific color but all colors. White retains the best strength.

When fiber is extruded with a color, we see approximately 4-6% degradation of tensile strength.

The color black is most resistant to UV. Over time you may see a little better long-term strength retention due to color fastness.


So, what the new standard is white is strongest, but black is longer lasting due to UV protection.

Thank you for the information. I’m looking for stronger so I’ll go with white and replace it more often.
Regards.

 

[Bryant]

Dock Lines

Par for the course, sad to say.

You have a beautiful boat, btw.