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05-08-2017, 10:48 AM
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#1
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Guru
City: Punta Gorda, FL
Vessel Name: Aweigh
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 42
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 628
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Dock Hands and the Bow Line
I have a single engine boat with two thursters but when we pull into a dock the dock hand insists on receiving a bow line which he secures and then runs back to wait on another line. When my boat is tight on the bow it is not going anywhere. My wife tries to tell the little Rudypoop* that she is going to throw a breast line or even the stern line so I can bring the bow over with the thruster. Then he starts yelling at her and I start yelling at them. Not pretty.
*Rudypoop...what my wife calls a young man who runs around "whistle britches" style barking orders while not having a clue.
Anyone else experienced this sort of dock hand?
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05-08-2017, 11:07 AM
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#2
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Enigma
City: Slicker?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,565
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Greetings,
Mr. 007. Sounds like "no tip" time with an added "You would have received a tip IF you had listened to directions from the Admiral."
__________________
RTF
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05-08-2017, 11:25 AM
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#3
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Guru
City: Brookline, NH
Vessel Name: Shalloway
Vessel Model: Defever 44, twin Perkins
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,260
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my $.02 - As long as the instructions are clear, dock hands should do as you ask.
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05-08-2017, 11:29 AM
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#4
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Guru
City: Owings, Md
Vessel Name: Graceland
Vessel Model: Mainship 34 MK1
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seasalt007
I have a single engine boat with two thursters but when we pull into a dock the dock hand insists on receiving a bow line which he secures and then runs back to wait on another line. When my boat is tight on the bow it is not going anywhere. My wife tries to tell the little Rudypoop* that she is going to throw a breast line or even the stern line so I can bring the bow over with the thruster. Then he starts yelling at her and I start yelling at them. Not pretty.
*Rudypoop...what my wife calls a young man who runs around "whistle britches" style barking orders while not having a clue.
Anyone else experienced this sort of dock hand?
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Yes, I think we all have. I have a couple techniques to mitigate this behavior. I pause before I am within reach of the dock and politely tell them where I intend to place my dock lines. This is usually enough for anyone to realize the boat is well under control and doesn't need to be muscled into submission.
I don't attach the lines to the boat first, instead I hand over the eye end of the line for them to place around a cleat or loop around a piling and then adjust at the cleat onboard. With this method, if the dockhand isn't listening to you and just starts pulling, they find they aren't pulling against anything and eventually get the point. If they still aren't listening, I politely ask them to stand aside or I pull away from the dock.
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05-08-2017, 11:29 AM
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#5
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TF Site Team
City: Westerly, RI
Vessel Name: N/A
Vessel Model: 1999 Mainship 350 Trawler
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,162
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Most boats, such as those with twins, or single I/O's and outboards can spring off of the bow line. The dockhand is only going by what he knows works for the hundreds upon hundreds of boats he assists with. You know your boat, however Keep in mind he's caught more boats over a season than docks you've motored up too.
The dockhand was wrong to not take your advise. I'm just pointing out where he might have been coming from.
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05-08-2017, 11:35 AM
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#6
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Guru
City: Tri Cities, WA
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,406
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I'm with Gdavid. I have my wife toss them the loop end of the line so there's not much they can screw up with it. We get the lines secured while the Ruddypoops are standing around, then, after they have departed we make final adjustments.
I've never met a skipper worth a damn who didn't want to tie his own lines. He knows his boat and knows how it should be secured.
__________________
Mike and Tina
1981 Boston Whaler 13'
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05-08-2017, 12:27 PM
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#7
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TF Site Team
City: Seneca Lake NY
Vessel Name: Bacchus
Vessel Model: MS 34 HT Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,826
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdavid
Yes, I think we all have. I have a couple techniques to mitigate this behavior. I pause before I am within reach of the dock and politely tell them where I intend to place my dock lines. This is usually enough for anyone to realize the boat is well under control and doesn't need to be muscled into submission.
I don't attach the lines to the boat first, instead I hand over the eye end of the line for them to place around a cleat or loop around a piling and then adjust at the cleat onboard. With this method, if the dockhand isn't listening to you and just starts pulling, they find they aren't pulling against anything and eventually get the point. If they still aren't listening, I politely ask them to stand aside or I pull away from the dock.
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That approach works great.
__________________
Don
2008 MS 34 HT Trawler
"Bacchus"
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05-08-2017, 12:46 PM
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#8
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Guru
City: Cape May, NJ
Vessel Name: Irish Lady
Vessel Model: Monk 36
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GFC
I'm with Gdavid. I have my wife toss them the loop end of the line so there's not much they can screw up with it.
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Never fails, they pull it to them until they have enough to tie off to the cleat. The loop will be laying on the dock.
__________________
Archie
Irish Lady
1984 Monk 36 Hull #46
Currently in Cape May, NJ
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05-08-2017, 12:51 PM
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#9
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Guru
City: Powell River, BC
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrew
Most boats, such as those with twins, or single I/O's and outboards can spring off of the bow line. The dockhand is only going by what he knows works for the hundreds upon hundreds of boats he assists with. You know your boat, however Keep in mind he's caught more boats over a season than docks you've motored up too.
The dockhand was wrong to not take your advise. I'm just pointing out where he might have been coming from.
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While we are doing sweeping generalizations, chances are the roodypoop has watched endless amounts of old coots (it works both ways) smash and crash their boats into docks and other boats while "in control" of their boats...
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05-08-2017, 01:01 PM
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#10
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Guru
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 22,553
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Toss a spliced eye to the dock helper.
Chances are he will drop it over the nearest cleat regardless of instructions and stand by waiting for his tip.
A long line allows the boats line handler to remain in control.
A well trained dock boy will drop the loop over the cleat you point at, worth his tip.
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05-08-2017, 01:21 PM
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#11
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Guru
City: Owings, Md
Vessel Name: Graceland
Vessel Model: Mainship 34 MK1
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by High Wire
Never fails, they pull it to them until they have enough to tie off to the cleat. The loop will be laying on the dock.
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I agree whole heartedly but since I haven't tied my end off they find themselves holding the whole damn thing. Once this gets their attention they can hand it back to me or take the eye of the spare one I have at the ready. I understand they deal with plenty of boaters that are a danger to themselves and I am always polite but they do need to listen or we pause until we are on the same page.
I think I am in the minority in preferring a slip rather than a spot along a floating dock or bulkhead. Around me, many of the marina's have a dedicated space that is easily accessed and doesn't require navigating fairways and placing lines on pilings to hold you off of fixed docks. Once this transient space is full they start placing visitors in the vacant seasonal slips. I much prefer the regular slip with lines to keep me off the dock rather than fenders to cushion me in what is frequently a highly trafficked area. I also enjoy visiting with the seasonal slip holders that know the area better then the other transients.
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05-08-2017, 01:24 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
City: California Bay Area
Vessel Name: BOOSTER
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 362
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This appears to be an East Coast phenomenon - I've never seen a "Rudypoop" on the West Coast (maybe I just never go to marinas that have them). When I was cruising on the East Coat (and Canada) I would request from the bridge "Please don't help me!" nicely, but firmly. I learned this the hard way when I had some boat damage due to an overenthusiastic Rudypoop, but the marina took absolutely no responsibility, saying that I was the Captain and since my vessel was still under power I was therefore responsible. That was the last time any Rudypoop handled my lines...
My wife and I always talk through docking procedures before landing, we have a system that works great for us, so no sense adding uncontrollable variables (like Rudypoops) when there's enough things already, like wind, current, etc.
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05-08-2017, 01:26 PM
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#13
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Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,149
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Agree with Northern Spy.
For every good captain and crew, there are 10 newbies without skills or experience.
There is no right way to dock, there are variations.
I agree that dock hands should take not give docking instructions...but often they save the day versus ruin it.
I got thrown out of a marina when I argued with the dockmaster who was in charge. I told him he assigns the slip and I discuss then dock the boat if the assignment is acceptable.
He was trrying to tell me throttle commands when he refused to tie off a spring preventing the current and wind from driving my anchor into the rear of a Flemming.
We disagreed and he told me to leave which I gladly did. Most marinas compliment me on boat handling...this was just a disagreement on who was responsible for what.
When I asked who was going to pay for the damages to the Flemming , he tossed me.
So you meet all kinds cruising....as they do too.
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05-08-2017, 01:35 PM
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#14
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Guru
City: Annapolis
Vessel Name: Ranger
Vessel Model: 58' Sedan Bridge
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7,088
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We've seen excellent dockhands... and then some others. I think I can see both sides of the coin, but knowing which is right in front of you at the time becomes an issue...
Our technique is to usually approach close enough to relay instructions in advance of lines... starting politely by wifey on the foredeck... and if necessary, emphasized from the bridge with my hailer. That includes where on the dock to attach the line...
Once we have agreement, and not before, the rest usually proceeds easily enough.
On a side tie-up, we usually pass the line we'll use as a forward spring, first. Once that's secured to pile or cleat on the dock (often the same pile or cleat we'll use for the bow line), we pull ourselves in tight to the dock and adjust length using engines, secure that line to a midships cleat on the boat... and we're basically docked. Add a bow line and a stern line at leisure...
-Chris
__________________
Chesapeake Bay, USA
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05-08-2017, 01:48 PM
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#15
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Guru
City: Punta Gorda, FL
Vessel Name: Aweigh
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 42
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrew
The dockhand is only going by what he knows works for the hundreds upon hundreds of boats he assists with. You know your boat, however Keep in mind he's caught more boats over a season than docks you've motored up too.
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I seriously doubt it. Most experienced dock hands are not rudypoops.
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05-08-2017, 02:07 PM
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#16
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Guru
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
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Wifey B: Just keep in mind that the dock hand you're upset with for being overzealous in helping, just got told off by the dockmaster because someone had posted that the dock hand just stood there doing nothing until he yelled at him.
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05-08-2017, 02:09 PM
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#17
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TF Site Team
City: Westerly, RI
Vessel Name: N/A
Vessel Model: 1999 Mainship 350 Trawler
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seasalt007
I seriously doubt it.
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Most don't dock as many times in a single season as a typical dock hand catches boats??
I should have used 'Probably' as the qualifier to account for ferry boat, pump put boat, and tender operators.
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05-08-2017, 02:24 PM
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#18
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Guru
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,037
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We don't let them get a bow line. They get a mid ship line only.
Based on "where they put it" my first mate and I adjust.
Works for us.
__________________
Jay Leonard
Ex boats: 1983 40 Albin trunk cabin, 1978 Mainship 34 Model 1
New Port Richey, Fl
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05-08-2017, 02:46 PM
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#19
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Guru
City: Tacoma, WA & Ashland, OR
Vessel Name: boatless, ex: Seeadler
Vessel Model: RAWSON 41
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jleonard
We don't let them get a bow line. They get a mid ship line only.
Based on "where they put it" my first mate and I adjust.
Works for us.
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My way also. Especially appropriate when single-handing. Easy to speak, not shout with dockhand from helm, and if I need to self-dock, the line is close at hand.
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05-08-2017, 02:46 PM
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#20
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Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,149
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One of the hardest concepts to get across is "exactly where do you want me?".
Most of the time I can put it there, then they want to move me 20 feet, or the office telks you one thing and tbe dockhand is somewheres else.
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