Do trawlers roll a lot?

[fullsail]

Hi everyone - new to the board and thinking seriously about getting a CHB 34 trawler or something similar. Wanted to know if any of you ever have an issue with rolling side to side while underway or at anchor. Thanks

 

[markpierce]

Yes, but trawlers roll no more at anchor than single-hulled sailboats, and have yet to broach on my trawler in contrast to what occurred several times during my sailboating days.

 

[Marin]

Wanted to know if any of you ever have an issue with rolling side to side while underway or at anchor. Thanks

Sure. Boats roll. All of them. The characteristics change with the hull type. Displacement hulls tend to roll farther but more slowly and smoothly. Semi- planing hulls like the CHB tend to roll less far but often have a sharp "snap back" at the end of each roll that many people find unpleasant.

Roll underway can be reduced somewhat by the use of passive stabilizers-- birds, bilge keels, etc. Roll underway can be reduced quite a bit by the use of active stabilizers, most commonly powered fins.

Roll at anchor can be reduced with the use of flopper-stoppers, bilge keels, or steady sails or stern anchors to keep the boat pointed into the wind and thus (usually) the waves.

 

[markpierce]

Roll underway can be reduced somewhat by the use of passive stabilizers-- birds, bilge keels, etc. Roll underway can be reduced quite a bit by the use of active stabilizers, most commonly powered fins.

Sails can/do reduce roll from a beam sea.

 

[Art]

Hard Chine: By their own volition... well designed hulls, superstructure and low center of gravity boats with twin screw powered planing hulls, having a good sized keel, roll considerably less than other designs while traveling above hull speed; depending on sea conditions in respect to speed traveled this bottom design tends to stay more perpendicular. At anchor... stability depends on wind and sea conditions as well as anchoring technique (fore... or fore and aft) for any style hull. Of course many type stabilizers may assist stability during nearly any sea condition and boat operation or still position.

Art

 

[sunchaser]

For this question, forget the wannabee trawlers like Tollycrafts or Bayliners. Think only about non-planing vessels

For a moment pretend you own a later model Nordhavn. Being full displacement and thereby a true trawler, Nordhavns roll a lot. To counteract this rolling and as Marin said, active stabilizers and flopper stoppers are a must. A 47' Nordhavn will have about 7,000# of ballast and the 55' 9,000#. Many round bottom KKs are similar in design with ballast and stablizers utilized. Many other trawler designs like a DeFever rely upon stabilzers and lots of low weight to mitigate rolling.

During WWII, many a troop got sick by the normal 30 degree (or more!) roll of the round bottom troop carriers.

 

[Art]

For this question, forget the wannabee trawlers like Tollycrafts or Bayliners. Think only about non-planing vessels

For a moment pretend you own a later model Nordhavn. Being full displacement and thereby a true trawler, Nordhavns roll a lot. To counteract this rolling and as Marin said, active stabilizers and flopper stoppers are a must. A 47' Nordhavn will have about 7,000# of ballast and the 55' 9,000#. Many round bottom KKs are similar in design with ballast and stablizers utilized. Many other trawler designs like a DeFever rely upon stabilzers and lots of low weight to mitigate rolling.

During WWII, many a troop got sick by the normal 30 degree (or more!) roll of the round bottom troop carriers.

Sunchaser - - > May I dissect what you imply/say... One type of "trawler" hull (your preferred design) needs mucho other equip and weights to "try" and reduce their roll at a considerably limited top speed, i.e. the hull-speed they can only attain. One type of "trawler" hull (my preferred design) does not roll as much... while still able to economically cruise at the same considerably slow-hull-speeds if desired... or get very stable while planing to move quickly if desired. IMHO: Choice seems simple when reason is applied!

Art

 

[sunchaser]

Art

I'm surprised you beat K Saunders to the reply button. The OP was asking about trawlers and rolling. You are happy you don't have a rolling trawler and instead have a purported rock solid in all weather Tolly. I'm OK with that and even from time to time read the Tolly owner's forum where I can read about one of my favorite non - trawlers. Some on that Forum are so bold as to claim they are a much better build than a Bayliner.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Art,
Get a grip. YOU DON"T HAVE A TRAWLER. You have a high speed cruiser that you use mostly as a trawler. We love you and we love your boat but it's not a trawler. Dosn't look like one and dosn't work like one. It works better in many respects.
But that aside (I hope it is) you were touching on something that is not understood by myself, but I've heard mention of it and noticed it from time to time over the boating years. A boat that is planing (or slightly planing) has an advantage over the disp boat in that it has a dynamic hydrodynamic element of stability that the wallowing (by comparison) disp boat lacks. The motion of a GB or a Nordic Tug or a Tollycraft over hull speed is, I believe more stable. I can't explain it but I know it's so. It feels more solid and "stable" than the motion of a disp hull. A disp hull underway has a motion more like any boat at rest. And since most of us have SD hulls this should be a part of the discussion but now days that may not be true as the SD boats are mostly going at hull speed or less.
And Art you don't need to have a trawler on Trawler Forum. There are quite a number here that don't. I personally wouldn't have a trawler if I could afford to go 10 or 12 knots.

 

[ancora]

My 30' Tolly rode quite well off-shore, that is, until I had to throttle back due to high seas. Then the fun started. My Nova Sundeck is quite "tender" rolling even in the slip more than the sailboats on the same finger. I'm thinkin' too much top hamper. It gets really dicey when runnin' an off-shore Log Race and we are in a beam sea and cannot change course. That's when Omar the Persian leaves the fly-bridge and goes below.

 

[Larry M]

... Many round bottom KKs are similar in design with ballast and stablizers utilized...

Hobo is Krogen 42, full displacement and boy do we roll. We have paravanes which we utilize probably 80-90% of the time under way and 20% of the time at anchor. We would not cruise the way we do with out some type of stabilizers.

I'm not sure I agree with what Mark said that trawlers roll no more at anchor than single-hulled sailboats. Our center of gravity is higher than most sail boats and we are living higher up in the vessel most of the time. Even though we have 2,500 lbs of ballast it sure feels like we roll a lot.

 

[Nomad Willy]

We roll plenty in our little Willy and she's got 2 tons of ballast.

 

[Rambler]

Hobo is Krogen 42, full displacement and boy do we roll. We have paravanes which we utilize probably 80-90% of the time under way

I haven't looked closely at the charts for your crusing area, but I doubt you have ICW's to cruise up and down like half (?) of the country has. So you're in open ocean for most if not all of your crusing. Even the leeward side is going to have some motion

Wave action is going to move a boat. Those waves can come from passing boats or the oceanic tides and currents and winds. Hide in a ditch and you can minimalize or eliminate some of the factors that move the boat.

Even the biggest boats have some form of active stabilization. If I did a significant amount of my driving outside, then stabilizers, paravanes most likely, would be a priority. If I did most of my driving in the ditches and backwaters, then you can't effectively deploy them even if you had them, so probalby wouldn't get them.

To the OP, you're going to have some amount of rocking in any boat, so savor the experience.

 

[Moonfish]

you're going to have some amount of rocking in any boat, so savor the experience.

Ah, and that nails it right there! Savor is a good word...

We have crossed Juan de Fuca Strait 6 times since we moved aboard our full displacement trawler in July. The Strait is the largest expanse of "open water" we will encounter this season. We have waited a couple of times for an improved weather window, where the winds were not against the tide and the waves were two feet or less. Nonetheless, we have been rolled by some beam seas and, of course, some semi-displacement boats that just have to pass at 15 knots throwing up a 6-foot plus wake less than 50 yards away even with a few miles of room (the most common culprit boat manufacturer shall remain un-named). Compared to the sailboats I have had, the trawler seems to roll easier in the same conditions. It's a combination of hull form and more weight higher up.

But, we're somewhat used to the whole sensation. And though we try to mitigate the opportunities for rolling, it's not so much worse that we want to go back to a lower profile sailboat. You get used to it. So we'll take a little rolling here and there in exchange for waking up in our home and office at anchor in a beautiful, quiet cove...

 

[Pineapple Girl]

Art,
Get a grip. YOU DON"T HAVE A TRAWLER. You have a high speed cruiser that you use mostly as a trawler. We love you and we love your boat but it's not a trawler. Dosn't look like one and dosn't work like one. It works better in many respects.
....
And Art you don't need to have a trawler on Trawler Forum. There are quite a number here that don't. I personally wouldn't have a trawler if I could afford to go 10 or 12 knots.

OMG I laughed out loud.

If my boat gets hit by a big enough wake or the swells are from the right (wrong?) direction, we can get a good roll going. We put latches on all the cupboards after anchoring out as race committee on a typical windy and choppy summer day in the San Francisco Bay showed us a little of that roll characteristic. But I don't have an ACTUAL trawler.

 

[Marin]

But I don't have an ACTUAL trawler.

Nobody here has an ACTUAL trawler unless they happen to have a trawl net rig on board and know how to use it.

 

[psneeld]

For this question, forget the wannabee trawlers like Tollycrafts or Bayliners. Think only about non-planing vessels

For a moment pretend you own a later model Nordhavn. Being full displacement and thereby a true trawler, Nordhavns roll a lot. To counteract this rolling and as Marin said, active stabilizers and flopper stoppers are a must. A 47' Nordhavn will have about 7,000# of ballast and the 55' 9,000#. Many round bottom KKs are similar in design with ballast and stablizers utilized. Many other trawler designs like a DeFever rely upon stabilzers and lots of low weight to mitigate rolling.

During WWII, many a troop got sick by the normal 30 degree (or more!) roll of the round bottom troop carriers.

I went to the Arctic 3X and the Antarctic on "round bottom" WWII class icebreakers, much rounder than troop/Liberty ships and while in extreme conditions they rolled more than 30 degrees...for the VAST majority of the 25,000 or so miles I have steaming on them....the roll was hardly sickening...much like coastal trawlers...

Unless you are a true passagemaker....the vast majority of trawlers neither need or have stabilization....

 

[Nomad Willy]

That's right Marin.
We're all (most at least) heavy cruisers and that's what they (trawlers) were called before someone came up w the silly idea of calling ice cream boats trawlers. Kinda like little girls getting together and wearing lipstick, nail polish, high heel shoes and purses. Just a big make believe.
But the name trawler has been used so much trawler yachts are actually trawlers now. They should think of something else to call big fishing trawlers. I think "draggers" is already taken.

 

[mahal]

Any boat, without stabilizers, driven slow will roll unless the water is flat. Slow boats used in open waters especially with a wife onboard can greatly benefit from stabilizers. My 2 cents worth.

 

[psneeld]

Any boat, without stabilizers, driven slow will roll unless the water is flat. Slow boats used in open waters especially with a wife onboard can greatly benefit from stabilizers. My 2 cents worth.

True...but to what extent and is it a big deal?

I drove my 40 Albin From Ft Lauderdale to South Jersey, 20 days on the road and what??? a 1000 miles of ICW, some ocean runs and crossing the big sounds. I was pressed for time and ran pretty much with what the weather had to offer except for losing 1/2 day due to wind gusts to 35 and tornado warnings.

During the whole trip...only 2x did table lamps fall off or if I had wine glasses sitting around would they have spilled. Both times were from passing wakes of big motoryachts.

So yeah stabilizers are great...but unless you do a lot of open water cruising...do you REALLY need them????

And I have and I know the difference with/without.

 

[Egregious]

HA!
We lost stuff overboard while in the ICW. Yes we were in a sound, but Dangit if we didn't get hit by a few big waves.

I have a Monk 36 which isn't too much different than many other trawlers here. I have a big keel and lead in the stern by the rudder posts. If I get hit by a big wake or a nasty beam sea or even a quartering following sea we get rocked big time.

It helps if you are at the lower helm and not on the fly bridge, but the stuff that went overboard (twice) was on the lower deck both times which means we took quite a hit.

 

[Art]

Nobody here has an ACTUAL trawler unless they happen to have a trawl net rig on board and know how to use it.

EXACTLY! TY MARIN... If you had not mentioned this, I was planning to. You have said same distinction in other threads
.
Eric - If you can call your little woody a "Twatler" I can call my little glasser a "Twatler" too! Trawler, Cabin Cruiser... "Twatler"... or whatever signifying name we may want to affix to our pleasure crafts. On this forum they are pretty much all simply Self Contained Power Boats that afford their owners (us all) much enjoyment. There are little to no REAL TRAWLERS on this forum - yours included. OP to this thread was concerned with roll. Plenty of input has been posted and should help in his/her decision.

 

[Art]

Art,
you were touching on something that is not understood by myself, but I've heard mention of it and noticed it from time to time over the boating years. A boat that is planing (or slightly planing) has an advantage over the disp boat in that it has a dynamic hydrodynamic element of stability that the wallowing (by comparison) disp boat lacks.

Eric - It is the inherent surface pressure created at higher speeds by increased volumes of water flow passing by the hard chine and flatter bottom hull. Not too unlike the increased water flow that helps stabilize surf boards. Notice how surfers sit on the boards till a wave's attitude increases speed so they can stand and then maneuver the board with weight angles. Taller the wave, faster they go, better stability the board itself offers due to its bottom's increased surface pressure. - Art

 

[Pineapple Girl]

Yeah Art I was expecting Marin to chime in with that! I happen to like my faux trawler self contained power boat. I think you have an awesome boat and Eric's is ok too, for being wood and all. . LOL.

 

[Art]

Art

I'm surprised you beat K Saunders to the reply button. The OP was asking about trawlers and rolling. You are happy you don't have a rolling trawler and instead have a purported rock solid in all weather Tolly. I'm OK with that and even from time to time read the Tolly owner's forum where I can read about one of my favorite non - trawlers. Some on that Forum are so bold as to claim they are a much better build than a Bayliner.

OMG - Better than Bayliner??? There are some BL lovers here - - > Let's hear it boys and girls!

 

[Art]

Yeah Art I was expecting Marin to chime in with that! I happen to like my faux trawler self contained power boat. I think you have an awesome boat and Eric's is ok too, for being wood and all. . LOL.

Hi Jennifer - P Girl,

Great to have you join this fray. Your boat is awesome too. Matter O' Fact - Every boat that is on this forum is just fine. I really don't care what "craft-model" name may be affixed to my boat. She's a dream and we love her, as I can tell you do also love your boat! Trawler Schmaller... these are all pleasure craft power boats that mostly look OK and all are fun to be aboard!

Cheers!! Art

 

[markpierce]

I'm not sure I agree with what Mark said that trawlers roll no more at anchor than single-hulled sailboats. Our center of gravity is higher than most sail boats and we are living higher up in the vessel most of the time. Even though we have 2,500 lbs of ballast it sure feels like we roll a lot.

You make a good point Larry. I was just considering the angle of roll. The farther one is from the center of gravity, the more movement. Fortunately, the living spaces (saloon and forward cabin) in the Coot are near the waterline.

 

[AusCan]

OK - to summarize - It appears the general consensus (with exceptions) is the a well designed hard chined planing hull is more stable at rest than a soft chined displacement hull. Also - in average-good conditions, the same planing hull has less roll traveling at speed than a displacement hull traveling at 6-8 knots.
The reverse is true when the weather turns really ugly and the planing hull must slow to displacement speed. In this situation, a well designed displacement hull is much better equipped to ride out the storm, whereas the planing hull operator should read the changing weather and use its speed to get to safe water.
Have I got this right?

 

[Art]

OK - to summarize - It appears the general consensus (with exceptions) is the a well designed hard chined planing hull is more stable at rest than a soft chined displacement hull. Also - in average-good conditions, the same planing hull has less roll traveling at speed than a displacement hull traveling at 6-8 knots.
The reverse is true when the weather turns really ugly and the planing hull must slow to displacement speed. In this situation, a well designed displacement hull is much better equipped to ride out the storm, whereas the planing hull operator should read the changing weather and use its speed to get to safe water.
Have I got this right?

Well sort of

Back in the day... New England 1960's/70's... IMHO: I've been in heavy weather off shore aboard different hull designs. Much has to do with the operator's abilities (especially in conflicting seas), low center of gravity (to help the operator avoid broach), and available power (in a boat of D, SD/SP or P) to ride up during fast moving close duration following seas. Sooo... I think most well designed and built boats of any hull have good chances if the operator really knows what to do. Some are more comfortable in certain types of seas. But, bottom line, the buck stops at the hands of the Captain's handling capabilities.

Art

 

[FF]

"Also - in average-good conditions, the same planing hull has less roll traveling at speed than a displacement hull traveling at 6-8 knots."

The problem is All boats roll , the shape of the hull will determine weather the boat is a bard bucket.

Roll which is soft (tho perhaps further ) when it checks and reverses direction is the easiest to live with.

A box bottom or hard chines is great at the slip , but underway the corners stop the roll much harder with a sharp quick motion.

BARF, BARF, BARF,

A really skinney hard chined boat might do this less , but few are that skinny.

YRMV