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Old 09-14-2012, 01:51 PM   #41
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Spent last weekend at Capitola, a slightly protected anchorage in Central California. I was super happy with my $130 investment in Rocker Stoppers, the orange plastic cones. Five on each side with a 6lb weight on the bottom. It would have been a rough weekend without them.
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Old 09-14-2012, 02:04 PM   #42
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So this thread has degenerated into those few of us who enjoy and use(stabilized and/or ballasted) rough water designed trawlers fending off those in the majority who enjoy calmer waters designed vessels. I've owned 3 Searays if that counts for anything.
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Old 09-14-2012, 02:06 PM   #43
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Gosh, next thing you know Eric will be saying that I don't have a trawler!!
Don - Let's call yours a Super Charged Trawler!! Mine is a medium charged one... Yea, that the ticket! lmao! - Art
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Old 09-14-2012, 02:10 PM   #44
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So this thread has degenerated into those few of us who enjoy and use(stabilized and/or ballasted) rough water designed trawlers fending off those in the majority who enjoy calmer waters designed vessels. I've owned 3 Searays if that counts for anything.
Sun -Counts for fun, understanding and your post # 1598!
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Old 09-14-2012, 08:34 PM   #45
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Don wrote:

"Gosh, next thing you know Eric will be saying that I don't have a trawler!!"

No Don because you don't talk about halving a trawler.
And when/if you do it's so subtle I don't notice it.
Your Sabre is not a trawler but it's more of a trawler than Art's Tolly. John Baker's Mainship isn't a trawler either (it's an express cruiser) nor are a lot of other boats on the forum. But this is just my opinion. And all the opinions here are quite different. To me a Fathom 40 (sold as a trawler (I believe)) isn't a trawler and many of the recent "trawlers that look like a trawler above the WL but aren't below like a Camano Troll and a Ranger Tug. Most or even all of these owners think or want to think they have trawlers. Trawlers have a problem in that they have attached to their image a macho masculine old salt image that is very real. Art dosn't like it when I say he dosn't have a trawler because I've attacked his vanity, boating guruness and masculinity. And they are obviously very important to him as he hangs on to his image so tenaciously it's hard to believe.
But that's just my opinion and if it's going to be a problem perhaps we should have a series of polls and determine a democratic group definition of TRAWLER ........ No we'd probably fight over the results. I've made my point and after halving the opportunity to express myself (something I like to do) I'll not criticize Art again for claiming he has a trawler.
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Old 09-14-2012, 09:18 PM   #46
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I think many ought to spend more time at the railwaiys looking instead of dreaming...a lot of full displacement trawlers, clammers, netters, longliners...etc...etc have hard chines and other than being a bit fuller amidships, they look a lot like many of the boats many of us own. Many of us real boat owners see in our REAL LIFE performance curves that at slower speeds MOST hull shapes perform very closely...planing, semi and full displacement when all run in the displacement mode.
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Old 09-14-2012, 09:32 PM   #47
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Art dosn't like it when I say he dosn't have a trawler because I've attacked his vanity, boating guruness and masculinity. And they are obviously very important to him as he hangs on to his image so tenaciously it's hard to believe.

I've made my point and after halving the opportunity to express myself (something I like to do) I'll not criticize Art again for claiming he has a trawler.
Eric worry not - I really don't care what my boat "type" may be called... it is you who cares what you feel different boats may/should/could be called. In the pleasure craft arena, in my opinion, a boat is a boat is a boat! Growing up in New England, nearly always aboard or around boats and boat yards... as well as commercial fishing trawlers in 50's/60's,70's... I always thought it strange when the word trawler became affixed to pleasure craft. Enjoy your trawler... I'll enjoy my Tollycraft boat! Cheers, Art
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Old 09-14-2012, 10:30 PM   #48
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If I go slow enough and put a bunch of weight in the bilge can I call my Sea
Ray a trawler? I carry a Zodiac on the swim step. What else should I do to get the respect due a real trawler captain.

And further, do I understand it correctly that even after I buy one of those big Tollycraft that I won't be accepted as a trawler captain? Oh the humanity!
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Old 09-14-2012, 10:35 PM   #49
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What else should I do to get the respect due a real trawler captain.
I have this vision in my head of your boat with a mast and small stabilizing sail on it
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Old 09-14-2012, 11:00 PM   #50
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Ain't words and the perceived/intended meanings thereof FUN!!!
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Old 09-14-2012, 11:15 PM   #51
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There has to be a very good reason why passagemakers like Deltas, Nordhavns, Watsons and others have FD hulls.
Well designed displacement hulls are easily driven which means you don't need gobs of power which you can't use anyway. Small-ish engines burn less fuel which means the typical single-engine Nordhavn has a great whacking range to it which is what you want if you're going to cross a big chunk of ocean.

And I don't believe there is a rule that says displacement hulls have to have round bottoms and chines. I've posted these shots before, which I did not take, but it shows one of the sampans or aku boats that were built locally in Hawaii in the later 1940s and early 50s for the tuna (aku) fishery there. These relatively narrow boats incorporated flat albeit curved bottom sections, hard chines, and even gunwale " hull bulges" (my term) to provide roll stability in the often very rough waters these boats fished in, like the infamous Molokai Channel. The "hull bulge" is obvious in the second shot and was quite effective as these boats were often rolled to their gunwales in the windy swells and waves around the islands.

But displacement boats they were, most of them powered by a single GMC 6-71. Watching them knife through the swells and waves like destroyers was a beautiful thing indeed. I filmed on a few of these boats in the 1970s and while they certainly rolled around-- hell, even sperm whales roll around in the Molokai Channel-- it was amazingly easy to keep one's balance and footing while on board. I have no idea who designed the hull-- all the aku boats had the same basic lines above and below the waterline-- but whoever it was, he understood the nature of the open ocean the boats were going to work in and how to design a hull to effectively meet the challenge.

The boats were almost exclusively crewed by Japanese Americans and I was told the word "sampan" is the Japanese term for carvel or smooth-sided planking, as opposed to lapstrake.

The bottom line being that a displacement hull does not automatically have to mean super-rolly.

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Old 09-15-2012, 12:16 AM   #52
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And I don't believe there is a rule that says displacement hulls have to have round bottoms and chines.
And if they don't have round bottoms and/or hard chines, what do they have??

By the way, was it you we motored next to out of Peavine Pass a couple of weeks ago? My wife took a picture and I just saw the La Perouse on the stern, which must be you. You should have waved! I would have waved back.....

La Perouse looks good in the pic....
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Old 09-15-2012, 12:36 AM   #53
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Thank's Marin,
There are numerous Kayaks w that basic hard chine shape. The chine and it's characteristics are one of the easiest elements of design to get lost in. Many for example think the soft chine on a lobster boat makes it a disp boat ... not at all. Chine lore is very misleading. And what seems obvious frequently isn't.

Budds Outlet,
Be pretty hard to fool anybody w a Sea Ray. But who cares. I'd like to go for a ride w you at 30 some knots ... would be kinda thrilling to me but a ride on my wallowing Willy probably wouldn't appeal to you. Kinda dull prolly.

"get the respect due a real trawler captain." That's where that mystique about manliness and saltyness comes from. It could be that the Hawaii 5"O" and other fast lane dudes have as much boat handling and seamanship experience and knowledge as trawler skippers. I hear them chat on BD.net and lots of them are very knowledgeable builders, skippers and designers .. sometimes all put together.
One chap (fm UK) had a wonderful thread about the evolution of a race boat w great pics of the construction and then great shots of the finally completed boat at 70 knots (or whatever). It was a tripple step deep deep V.

So why does the trawler guy get so much respect. Perhaps I think deep down it's not due trawlermen anymore than other boaters. Of course the same guys that were going to Alaska in the 50s and early 60s in Chris Crafts are going today in GBs, CHBs, MTs and NTs. And perhaps I'm all wet. Maybe we DO deserve all that respect ... but not the boats. It's the skipper that's in line for respect. If he walks the walk.
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Old 09-15-2012, 12:49 AM   #54
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And if they don't have round bottoms and/or hard chines, what do they have??
I probably more clearly should have said "...if they don't have round bottoms and/or round/soft chines.".

In other words, a displacement boat can have a bottom consisting of flat albeit curved surfaces and/or hard chines, characteristics a lot of people associate only with semi-planing or planing hulls. The aku boat in the photos I attached being an example of this.
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Old 09-15-2012, 01:08 AM   #55
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Eric--- In my opinion this whole business of calling a recreational boat a " trawler" started as nothing more than a marketing ploy to attach the image of a rugged, seaworthy working boat to a recreational boat that wasn't any of those things. The car people do the same thing--- witness the H2 "Hummer" which is nothing more than a Chevy Tahoe with a Humvee knock-off body on it. Or Lee Iacocca's original "Mustang" which was nothing more than a Ford Falcon platform with a sporty 2-door body bolted on top.

As the CEO of an airline told me a number of years ago, "Perception is fifty percent of everything today.". These days, it's probably more like eighty percent. So we get toy boats that the manufacturers call "trawlers" simply to make buyers feel like they're buying a piece of rugged, maritime heritage.

Where in fact the only similarity between real trawlers and the vast majority of toy boat trawlers is that neither one is a submarine.
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Old 09-15-2012, 01:20 AM   #56
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Art,
Re post #33
You actually think people buy a full disp boat just to save fuel?
They actually buy them to have a better boat. All boats were FD before the engine came along and then there were mutations that descended to accommodate the engines. There are a few of them left.
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Old 09-15-2012, 01:40 AM   #57
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Naval architect George Buehler thinks a better term/inspiration is "troller" for our recreational, heavy-displacement "trawlers."

concept
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Old 09-15-2012, 02:24 AM   #58
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Art,
Re post #33
You actually think people buy a full disp boat just to save fuel?
They actually buy them to have a better boat. All boats were FD before the engine came along and then there were mutations that descended to accommodate the engines. There are a few of them left.
Eric

Time to get serious now - lol ... i.e. there is not much too serious about pleasure craft that we on TF own and make love to. "Pleasure" being the operative word. Trawlers (that is real fishing/working trawlers - not our toy boats that some like to call trawlers) had little to do with pleasure, except maybe a good payday for the working crew after weeks out trawling while enjoying the cash $$$ results from a good catch.

To say FD is a better boat just because it is FD strikes of... well... lack of understanding about and/or experience with other hull types such as SD/SP and FP.

Reasons the boats were all FD before engines became available is two reasons 1. Why bother to try and improve hull designs to a planing design since no power to reach plane previously existed. And, 2. Hull design technology had yet developed to the point of understanding water lift dynamics well enough to create corectly formed planing hulls. It took engine power (not wind power) to push planning hull design technology onto higher levels of understanding.

To say, as you did: "All boats were FD before the engine came along and then there were mutations that descended to accommodate the engines." ... is simply 50% incorrect. As you correctly say, all boats were FD before engines and that planing hulls are a mutation from FD's. However, instead of as you say P hulls are a descending mutation, Full Planing and SD/SP hull designs are ascending mutations that have attained improved levels of hull designs from simply having FD hulls that had been available for 1000ís of years.

As I've mentioned before, a well designed good-build boat of FD, SD/SP, or FP all have their own attributes. In any sea conditions or other boat control situations the buck stops in the operating Captainís hands. Smart/knowledgeable Captains can make most boat rides a good one... inept/inexperienced Captains can make nearly any ride turn into a nightmare.

I like well built boats comprised of FD, SD/SP and FP hull designs. I most enjoy operating and staying aboard well built, comfortably laid out, twin screw, FP boats. That is why I own a super sturdy and durable 1977 34í Tollycraft Tri Cabin!

Enjoy your FD Willard and Iíll enjoy my FP Tolly!!

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Old 09-15-2012, 02:41 AM   #59
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Naval architect George Buehler thinks a better term/inspiration is "troller" for our recreational, heavy-displacement "trawlers."

concept
Damn nice attached page Mark... I got your drift! Great looking classic Troller boat at page end! Thanks, Art
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Old 09-15-2012, 06:24 AM   #60
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Very few "trawlers" carry enough power to plane well.

"Well" being going fast enough that the fuel consumption per mile actually goes down with increased speed. SL 3+

At semi displacement speeds SL under 3 , there is little difference in weather a boat is round bottoms or has flats aft .

Mostly weight is the prime concern , hull shape (unless a plaining disaster like a canoe or double ended) doesn't make much difference.

The commuters of the 20's and 30's had mostly rounded bottoms and were fast and smooth riding for their times.Heavy engines + heavy hull weight was their biggest handy cap!

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